Pistol Stabilizer Brace Questions

[Scrod314]

Hello...
If I wanted to put a stabilizing brace on a pistol that has a 1.25 inch buffer tube, can anyone recommend one? I like how the Magpul Blade looks. Are these stabilizing braces just "slide on" like my other AR15? Thanks
P.S. My AR15 has over a 16 inch barrel.

 

[1-cavediver]

Both of the Magpul blades fit a standard carbine buffer tube and are adjustable.

 

[Scrod314]

I can't find any Magpul items in stock.

 

[Blkhrt13]

Hello...
If I wanted to put a stabilizing brace on a pistol that has a 1.25 inch buffer tube, can anyone recommend one? I like how the Magpul Blade looks. Are these stabilizing braces just "slide on" like my other AR15? Thanks.

You have a few months with it. I suspect by Christmas the new ruling will have you perusing an sbr if you want to keep it that way.

 

[Scrod314]

You have a few months with it. I suspect by Christmas the new ruling will have you perusing an sbr if you want to keep it that way.

Can you elaborate on this?

 

[Sistema1927]

Can you elaborate on this?

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/factoring-criteria-firearms-attached-stabilizing-braces

 

[Scrod314]

Thank you. You guys are awesome. I'm going to wait.

 

[citizenconn]

Thank you. You guys are awesome. I'm going to wait.

As long as the lower was not factory built as a pistol lower you can put the brace on and take it off without any issues, I think, at least until the ruling takes effect. Others correct me if I'm wrong.
Now, will the ruling actually take effect in December as proposed? Or will someone from one of the lawsuits be able to get an emergency injunction on it? We shall see.

Has anyone here scored their AR brace/blade and got a score to where they can keep the brace and be legal under the ATFs ridiculous scoring sheet? If so, can you let us know which brace/blade and the setup of your pistol?

 

[N555]

As long as the lower was not factory built as a pistol lower you can put the brace on and take it off without any issues, I think, at least until the ruling takes effect. Others correct me if I'm wrong.
Now, will the ruling actually take effect in December as proposed? Or will someone from one of the lawsuits be able to get an emergency injunction on it? We shall see.

Has anyone here scored their AR brace/blade and got a score to where they can keep the brace and be legal under the ATFs ridiculous scoring sheet? If so, can you let us know which brace/blade and the setup of your pistol?

The whole point of the scoring sheet it to reclass about 100% of the AR pistols sold as sbr's and to make building your own brace equiped AR pistol a legally treacherous endeavor.

 

[citizenconn]

The whole point of the scoring sheet it to reclass about 100% of the AR pistols sold as sbr's and to make building your own brace equiped AR pistol a legally treacherous endeavor.

Yes I'm very aware of that, which is why I was asking if anyone managed to put together an AR pistol they think passes the rating system. If I remember from reading the checklist a while back it also gives the AFT the discretion to fail your pistol just because even if you passed the checklist.

 

[N555]

The atf opened the door to all this, they are the ones that signed off on these "pistol braces". I remember when all you could have was a slick tube with a grip pad.

 

[citizenconn]

The atf opened the door to all this, they are the ones that signed off on these "pistol braces". I remember when all you could have was a slick tube with a grip pad.

Bingo. Also, weren't they the ones that set the standard for 80% frames not being firearms? They are moving the goalposts again for political reasons and now demonizing them as Ghost Guns.

 

[Varminterror]

As long as the lower was not factory built as a pistol lower you can put the brace on and take it off without any issues, I think, at least until the ruling takes effect.

Maybe I am misreading this, but why could a factory built pistol not be braced under the current policy? Until the new point system comes into rule, then a brace doesn’t change the status of a pistol, so a factory pistol could also have the brace installed and removed.

 

[Varminterror]

I remember when all you could have was a slick tube with a grip pad.

This was also the era in which how an item was used was a factor in deciding what an item WAS. Which made no sense then, and doesn’t now.

The new point system is largely a redefinition of that same non-sensical paradigm. The points system are trying to use how certain pistols are built to define how they are expected to be used, which then would define what it is… rather than simply making rulings as to specific products which are obviously designed to be shouldered, or not, as had been done in the past since the ruling had been corrected.

 

[Rexster]

I have noticed that recent SIG Rattlers, in stock at one gun store, are now brace-less. (A Rattler, of course, has no buffer tube, so, is not entirely on-topic, so I apologize for the slight drift.)

 

[citizenconn]

I have noticed that recent SIG Rattlers, in stock at one gun store, are now brace-less. (A Rattler, of course, has no buffer tube, so, is not entirely on-topic, so I apologize for the slight drift.)

Yes, piston guns are an interesting caveat to the brace question (I don't know if the Rattlers are piston guns as I'm not really familiar with them so I'm assuming). I have seen that even many AR pistols with DI systems are now coming with plain or simply padded buffer tubes.
Even the new Savage bolt action pistols are being sold without a brace on them.

Maybe we will start to see AR and other type pistols with bungee type slings on them like PDWs had in the 70s and 80s. Radical, dude!

 

[12Bravo20]

Maybe I am misreading this, but why could a factory built pistol not be braced under the current policy? Until the new point system comes into rule, then a brace doesn’t change the status of a pistol, so a factory pistol could also have the brace installed and removed.

As of right now, you can legally install a brace onto a factory AR pistol that did not come with one. Or you can buy a factory pistol with a pistol brace pre installed. They both transfer as a pistol.

 

[Sistema1927]

Maybe I am misreading this, but why could a factory built pistol not be braced under the current policy? Until the new point system comes into rule, then a brace doesn’t change the status of a pistol, so a factory pistol could also have the brace installed and removed.

Here is the problem under the new regs. If the "pistol" came from the factory with a brace installed, and if the score sheet (or ATF's subjective ruling) says that it isn't a braced pistol, but instead an SBR, then the "began life as a rifle, always a rifle" rule kicks in. At that point the lower/receiver is deemed to be a "rifle", and must get a tax stamp, or a longer barrel, or forfeiture/destruction.

If you buy a "pistol" right now without it coming with a brace, and then add one, you don't have this problem. Removal of the brace will allow you to go back to "pistol" configuration since a pistol can become a rifle and then back to a pistol (lather, rinse, repeat) as many times as you want.

 

[citizenconn]

Here is the problem under the new regs. If the "pistol" came from the factory with a brace installed, and if the score sheet (or ATF's subjective ruling) says that it isn't a braced pistol, but instead an SBR, then the "began life as a rifle, always a rifle" rule kicks in. At that point the lower/receiver is deemed to be a "rifle", and must get a tax stamp, or a longer barrel, or forfeiture/destruction.

If you buy a "pistol" right now without it coming with a brace, and then add one, you don't have this problem. Removal of the brace will allow you to go back to "pistol" configuration since a pistol can become a rifle and then back to a pistol (lather, rinse, repeat) as many times as you want.

That's why I build my own from parts and the AFT can keep its nose out of my business.

I have, well, I don't know how many exactly ARs I have. Well over 75 fully assembled with a lot of boxes or upper and lower receivers and barrels and parts kits laying around. I have only ever bought one complete rifle from a manufacturer, years ago when it was difficult to find matching parts to build your own large frame ARs.

 

[Varminterror]

Here is the problem under the new regs. If the "pistol" came from the factory with a brace installed, and if the score sheet (or ATF's subjective ruling) says that it isn't a braced pistol, but instead an SBR, then the "began life as a rifle, always a rifle" rule kicks in. At that point the lower/receiver is deemed to be a "rifle", and must get a tax stamp, or a longer barrel, or forfeiture/destruction.

If you buy a "pistol" right now without it coming with a brace, and then add one, you don't have this problem. Removal of the brace will allow you to go back to "pistol" configuration since a pistol can become a rifle and then back to a pistol (lather, rinse, repeat) as many times as you want.

The problem is that the original claim specified that under the CURRENT laws, a factory assembled pistol would have issue with adding a brace - which isn’t the case. And under the FUTURE policy, any pistol which adds a brace will be under the scrutiny of the point system, regardless of whether it was factory assembled or otherwise. The the distinction wasn’t applicable.

As of right now, you can legally install a brace onto a factory AR pistol that did not come with one. Or you can buy a factory pistol with a pistol brace pre installed. They both transfer as a pistol.

Exactly this. So the distinction above which I quoted was incorrect - hence why I challenged its veracity.

 

[Sistema1927]

There was nothing incorrect in what I stated. If a "pistol" comes as manufactured with a brace installed, then you run the risk of the new regs classifying it as an SBR with all of the attendant problems. A "pistol" that began life without a brace will always be a pistol, but a "pistol" that the ATF says was actually an SBR will need to be stamped, converted, or destroyed per the new regs.

See this from the proposed rule:

In order to comply with the provisions of the NFA, current unlicensed possessors of a firearm equipped with a “stabilizing brace” and a barrel length of less than 16 inches that would qualify as a “short-barreled rifle” as indicated on the ATF Worksheet 4999 contained in this proposed rule would need to take one of the following actions before the effective date of a final rule.




(1) Permanently remove or alter the “stabilizing brace” such that it cannot be reattached, thus converting the firearm back to its original pistol configuration (as long as it was originally configured without a stock and as a pistol) and thereby removing it from regulation as a “firearm” under the NFA. Exercising this option would mean the pistol would no longer be “equipped with” the stabilizing brace within the meaning of the proposed rule.

(2) Remove the short barrel and attach a 16-inch or longer barrel to the firearm thus removing it from the provisions of the NFA.

(3) Destroy the firearm. ATF will publish information regarding proper destruction on its website, www.atf.gov.

(4) Turn the firearm into your local ATF office.



(5) Complete and submit an Application to Make and Register a Firearm, ATF Form 1 (“Form 1”). As part of the submission, the $200 tax payment is required with the application. Pursuant to 27 CFR 479.102, the name, city, and state of the maker of the firearm must be properly marked on the firearm. All other markings, placed by the original manufacturer, should be adopted. Proof of submission of the Form 1 should be maintained by all possessors. Documentation establishing submission of Form 1 includes, but is not limited to, eForm submission acknowledgement, proof of payment, or copy of Form 1 submission with postmark documentation.

 

[Varminterror]

There was nothing incorrect in what I stated.

Read the thread. You’re barking up the wrong tree here.

 

[Sistema1927]

Read the thread. You’re barking up the wrong tree here.

If you look back at post #13, you were "misreading", and you could lead others astray in your belief that the ATF can't say that your formally classified pistol was really an SBR all along. That is a tree worth barking up.

 

[Varminterror]

If you look back at post #13, you were "misreading", and you could lead others astray in your belief that the ATF can't say that your formally classified pistol was really an SBR all along. That is a tree worth barking up.

Nope… you’re bad at this.

I quoted this:

As long as the lower was not factory built as a pistol lower you can put the brace on and take it off without any issues, I think, at least until the ruling takes effect. Others correct me if I'm wrong.

Because “until the ruling takes effect,” there is absolutely no dependence upon whether or not “the lower was not factory built as a pistol lower.”

So again, as I pointed out:

Until the new point system comes into rule, then a brace doesn’t change the status of a pistol, so a factory pistol could also have the brace installed and removed.

In ALL statements, the claim is made “until the new point system comes into effect,” so your blathering here is - again - barking up the wrong tree.

 

[Sistema1927]

Nope… you’re bad at this.

I quoted this:



Because “until the ruling takes effect,” there is absolutely no dependence upon whether or not “the lower was not factory built as a pistol lower.”

So again, as I pointed out:



In ALL statements, the claim is made “until the new point system comes into effect,” so your blathering here is - again - barking up the wrong tree.

However, you are still wrong. Once the new criteria goes into effect, and when ATF determines that what you thought was a pistol when you bought it was actually an SBR, then continuing to stick your head in the sand and thinking that you still possess a pistol is going to lead to bad juju.

Ask yourself this question: If it was as simple as removing the brace and calling it a pistol, then why would all the language about tax stamps, conversion, or destruction be included in the proposed regulation?

Don't think that the ATF won't go trolling through the records of manufacturers in order to make examples of the unsuspecting. You are dangerous to others.