Please advise on AR purchase: Spikes vs. Colt vs. Del-Ton vs. ?

[orangeninja]

Okay guys so I'm planning on getting an AR. I've owned a Bushmaster in the past, it was a good gun but I'd like to buy one and only one AR and the Bushy won't be it.

I am looking for something with a 1:7 twist to shoot heavier milspec ammo. I am open to 1:9 for milspec ammo if someone can tell me how/if it will impact either reliability or accuracy.

I also want a chrome lined barrel and chamber with M4 feed ramps in an M4 carbine pattern. Reliability is of paramount importance, it is factor #1, ruggedness/durability is #2, accuracy is #3, everything else falls somewhere on down the list.

I may put an Adams Arms piston kit on it, but will keep the DI parts to swap back as needed/desired.

The ARs I have looked at and liked so far were of course the Colt 6920, but I have to say, for the price it seems there are just as good of an option available for less money. Also just to be transparent, I’m not much of a Colt fanboy, but neither am I against them. Brand is a non-factor to me, but if the Colt is a better rifle, I’ll spend the extra $200-300.

The other is a Del-Ton Extreme Duty which has all the same specs as the Colt, but can be had for $200-400 cheaper.

Another is the Spikes Tactical M4LE Carbine (identical specs to the Colt and Del-Ton). Again about $200-300 cheaper than the Colt.

Finally there is a carbine that intrigues me, Windham Armory. The specs look good except for the 1:9 twist rate. Also the Sig M400 (which interests me mostly because I love Sig handguns) but the individual reviews have been less than stellar. That’s about it. Any opinions, experiences, etc. I would appreciate.

My use would be for personal/home protection, hauling around in the wilderness, and finally occasional shooting competitions. So in order of importance, reliability, ruggedness, and accuracy.

 

[Fishbed77]

Colt and Spikes will be equal in quality (both are excellent). The Spikes will cost less initially, but the Colt will likely hold its value better (there are folks that love that prancing pony - myself included).

I own a Spikes M4LE upper on a PSA lower. It is the version with the Spikes 9" BAR railed forearm. It is a fantastic product. It has been 100% reliable and fit & finish is excellent - probably a notch better than most Colts in appearance. Accuracy is very good as well. It's easily a 1.5-2.0 MOA rifle with M193 or M855 ammo.

IMHO, the Colt or Spikes will be better rifles than the Del-ton or Windham offerings. Del-ton hasn't always been very open about their specs or parts, and the Windham uses a number of commercial (i.e. non-mil-spec) parts. Not to say that something has to be mil-spec, but it's at least a minimum standard to know what you're getting.

I may put an Adams Arms piston kit on it, but will keep the DI parts to swap back as needed/desired.

Don't bother. The Colt or Spikes will likely be as reliable or more reliable in their native DI form, than they would be with the Adams kit. You would only be adding weight and complexity. If you want a piston AR, just buy a piston AR to begin with.


My Spikes M4LE:

 

[allaroundhunter]

I can't really add much to what fished said. The Spikes and Colt are worthy the money over the other two. If I was wanting to spend less than the Colt, it would certainly be a Spikes. If you find a BCM rifle they are wonderful as well and can come in that price range.

 

[ID-shooting]

I have the Del-Ton Sport. I really like it for a budget rifle. Finish seems to be a little thin as the controls are showing some bright metal. been rock solid, once I broke it in. couple K rounds through it now, mix of GI, commercial .223, and Tula steel. Been plenty accurate with a 55gr and 62gr ammo with the 1/9 twist.

 

[henschman]

I personally don't prefer the Colts because they don't have a lot of options when it comes to barrel length, barrel profile, and gas system length. Im not a huge fan of "gov't profile" or 16" barrels with carbine length gas, which is what almost all Colts have. I really like Palmetto State Armory because they have nearly every barrel option you could want, and their barrels are made by FN, a trusted source. Plus they are as cheap as some of the lower tier rifles. Sometimes it is hit or miss on what they have in stock, but you can get a PSA with an Aimpoint PRO for the same price as a Colt with irons only.

 

[adelbridge]

I built an AR on a Spikes lower and I was less than impressed. I still run the rifle and it works perfect and I dont plan on swapping out lower. The hammer and trigger pin holes are very slightly out of spec and it would mean nothing with a stock mil spec trigger group. It does introduce a hair of creep with a precision trigger group. I have tested three different triggers and controlled with a Bushmaster lower that was in spec. If it were my money I would get the Colt. Del-Ton is known as a value brand and probably pretty good stuff but resale will be best with a Colt.

 

[JustinJ]

Have you looked at BCM?

 

[Fishbed77]

The hammer and trigger pin holes are very slightly out of spec and it would mean nothing with a stock mil spec trigger group.

Spikes has a lifetime warranty. If that lower is out of spec, you should let them know.

FYI, if I understand correctly, many/most Spikes lowers are made by Aero Precision, who also makes lowers for PSA and many other brands. They are generally known to be high-quality parts.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Colts can be had at competitive pricing, esp. if you get it at Wal-Mart. Sometimes you can get the Magpul stocks etc. for less than you'd pay for them aftermarket.

My Colt has been the most reliable semi automatic I have ever owned. Accuracy wise unless you are free floating your barrel don't expect any of them to out perform a bolt action rifle--esp when they get hot.

 

[dvdcrr]

My experience with 5 deltons, they all have good m4 feedramps, and are built straight, so function is 100% including wolf steel cases. Accuracy on the non chrome middy hbar uppers is usually sub moa, one lightweight middy was so capable of sub moa. I have put delton uppers on several lowers and am favorably impressed. I use heavy buffers and usually a trigger upgrade. For me they have been 100%. The bolt is marked mpi hpt, I feel its a quality bolt.

 

[orangeninja]

Thanks guys, I did check out PSA, they have an M4 that I am very curious about. In fact I guess you could say they are now in the running as well.

So far I have "Colt = expensive but reliable, the standard and accuracy is okay"

Spikes "Like Colt, slightly better finish, cheaper but same/same otherwise".

Del-Ton "Good rifle, considered a budget gun, reliable".

Windham "DOA, don't do it".

PSA "Like Spikes but with a different name and FN barrels".

That's what I've heard so far. And as for the piston kits, I'm curious as to why they would reduce reliability. The weight difference is a non-issue when compared to the DI system, but reliability is paramount.

Has anyone installed this kit on their rifle? How did it perform?

 

[allaroundhunter]

It reduces reliability because the gun was not designed from the ground up to be a piston gun, it was designed as a DI gun. Despite what you may have heard, DI ARs are extremely reliable. There is no reason to get a piston upper in my opinion. If you want a piston gun then save the pennies and purchase an AR that was designed and built from the get-go as such.

 

[orangeninja]

Well, Adams Arms has a piston AR that floats around the $1K mark, which is cheaper than the 6920 (and feature wise is otherwise identical to the 6920). They also have a tactikool version for about $1500 which is only about $200-300 more than the 6920 but has a free floated barrel. Maybe I'll consider one of those instead.

 

[allaroundhunter]

Well, Adams Arms has a piston AR that floats around the $1K mark, which is cheaper than the 6920 (and feature wise is otherwise identical to the 6920). They also have a tactikool version for about $1500 which is only about $200-300 more than the 6920 but has a free floated barrel. Maybe I'll consider one of those instead.

Is there a reason that you want a piston gun instead of a DI?

 

[Fishbed77]

Well, Adams Arms has a piston AR that floats around the $1K mark, which is cheaper than the 6920 (and feature wise is otherwise identical to the 6920). They also have a tactikool version for about $1500 which is only about $200-300 more than the 6920 but has a free floated barrel. Maybe I'll consider one of those instead.

Honestly, you need to ask yourself why you want a piston AR. The only real benefit I see to them is if you are shooting suppressed a lot (and the piston AR has an adjustable gas valve). Personally, I think I would be happier with a DI Colt or Spikes (or BCM or DD or PSA) than Adams' entry-level piston model.

 

[orangeninja]

Being that I have owned multiple AK variants, of various calibers, and I am convinced of the dead on reliability that a piston system has over a direct impingement system (I've drank the piston koolaid). Not being an AR kind of guy in general but seeing the utility of the weapon, I decided that the piston system would be something of a compromise. I’m not saying I could be wrong but that’s what all of my reading, etc. has lead me to believe.

Finally, a Colt DI ARs that I used to have to qualify with had a nasty habit of blowing hot gas into my eye when shooting. I don’t know why but I didn’t care for it at all. Redirecting the gas away from my face would be nice. And before you say “shooting glasses”…trust me I already know, but I won’t always have a pair handy if I ever use this rifle for social purposes, and I generally don’t hike around with a pair on either. If this is atypical of an AR, I’d love to hear about it.

 

[CharlieDeltaJuliet]

Trust me, I have an Hk MR556A1. If you are not shooting suppressed, have a barrel shorter than 14.5", stick with a DI gun. You are wasting money. I shoot mine suppressed. That is the only reason I wanted it. Piston guns that are not built from the ground up can be very finicky.

Go get a Colt,BCM,PSA,S&W etc... and hav fun.

 

[allaroundhunter]

And if you are going to get a piston gun, don't get a bottom of the barrel one (Adams Arms has some not so good stories with their guns).

 

[orangeninja]

Thanks guys. The two piston guns from the ground up, other than Adams Arms that I have seen and been interested in are the Sig and the Ruger. Have never fired either. May wait and see where this piston thing goes.

 

[anothernewb]

I'm far from an expert on AR's but I've been really happy with my spikes lower. nice and tight fit to my upper. I do not have any issues with alignment either. The spider gets lots of compliments to boot.

 

[joevans]

Piston AR

Take a look at the new Adcor Defense 201200E multi-cal, a little rich but does the job; probably will be the next weapon for our forces.

 

[68wj]

Being that I have owned multiple AK variants, of various calibers, and I am convinced of the dead on reliability that a piston system has over a direct impingement system (I've drank the piston koolaid).

That is commentary on AK v. AR, not Piston v. DI. Retrofitting an AR, even by the manufacturer, to a piston system is not the same as an AK until you consider changing the bolt, carrier, extractor, ejector, magazine, etc. Besides, the predominant AR piston designs are short stroke as opposed to the AK's long stroke piston. A comparison to an M1A/M14 or M1 Carbine is more appropriate, yet still off.

 

[Jackal]

Buy a PSA (Palmetto State Armory). Has all the features you want and a price you can live with. Just a good rifle. Like this: http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/psa-16-hf-m4a1-ss12g2-strikefire-premium-carbine.html

 

[breakingcontact]

Colt. Because: Colt

 

[JPG19]

For what it's worth, I'll throw in another vote for the Spike's. I have their 16" M4 LE carbine and it has been a flawless, 100% reliable rifle since day one. Their warranty is top notch and I recommend them to all my friends and family. I could be mistaken about this, but I believe that Spike's uses/used to use (I believe that mine is) FN barrels as well. I could easily be mistaken about this though.