Please define "brush gun" for me...???

[Mini30SS]

My interpretation, from a historical perspective: A carbine length lever action ( 40 inch or less in total length ), in rifle Calibers ranging from 0.308 - 0.458, usually starting at .30-30, 32 Win special, .33 .348 Winchester, 35 Remington, .356, .358, .375, .38-55 Winchester, 444 Remington, .450 Marlin, ending at .45-70.

Such a carbine is ideal for areas of thick underbrush and berry bushes that entice deer, black bear, and wild boar.

A more modern interpretation might also include rifle caliber semi- auto or bolt action carbines, such as those in the category of patrol rifles, or scout rifles, in Calibers 6.5 creedmoor, or 0.308 Winchester ( or 7.62x51).

 

[tmd16556]

I’ve always agreed it’s short, light and easy to carry. Enough energy and not too much drop aren't big problems where shots should be under 100 yds.
If twig-missing matters, I always understood long, heavy, and fast was good to avoid drop. 7mm magnum or fast twist 22-250. I still belong to the school that if you don’t have a clean shot you wait or move to get that. Thus the light, short rifle.
If you want to shoot around twigs, buckshot is the best bet. Not all 12 will hit the twig. If they do, you shouldn‘t have taken that shot.

 

[Wolfshead]

My “brush gun” weighs about 6.5 lbs. unloaded, has a 1.75-5 x 32 scope and a 20” barrel.
I can carry it far and all day if necessary.
I don’t shoot through brush as my target may not be 100% identifiable.
too many times have I seen movement that i could swear was a deer only to become a person.
A close family friend was almost killed by someone shooting through the brush at what he thought was a deer. Two inches to the right and it would have severed his femoral artery and there would have been nothing we could have done But watch him bleed out.

 

[dobedo]

Whenever this question comes up, seems like about every 6 months or so, I'm reminded of this article:

6 Best Deer Hunting Rifles for The Big Woods

Hunting the North Country is different than any other kind of whitetail deer hunting. Here are the six best deer hunting rifles for the big woods.

www.fieldandstream.com

Here's at least one article that states IAW the authors testing the the .45-70 did a reasonable job in brush.

The Best Brush Busting Bullets Put to the Test

Brush rifles and brush bullets have been a topic of conversation for decades, but how effective are they at punching through thickets?

www.outdoorlife.com

Me? I just prefer lighter more compact carbines with LPVOs on them. I've also shot a few running deer, once jumped, shouting at them to stop, hasn't worked all that well.

I have hunted in Alaska and all through the northeast. I have always used a 45/70 and lots of Mainerds did when I hunted for moose and bear. In Alaska many hunters there used the .375 cartridge. In the thick woods form Alaska and the northeast, the majority of the rifles were short barrels (carbines). Also, the majority were some flavors of iron sites as scopes are useless in thick woods and brush. The past couple years I have switched to the .500 S&W in a BHA carbine. The larger calibers will hammer right through the brush with a lot less deflection than the smaller calibers gross tunnage rules. I also have a 30/30 and have not used it for hunting in many years after using the 45/70. I missed a lot of deer with the 30/30 due to brush deflection of the round. The heavier 45/70 and now the .500 have been a better round in heavy brush and woods with little deflection.

 

[Chuck R.]

I have hunted in Alaska and all through the northeast. I have always used a 45/70 and lots of Mainerds did when I hunted for moose and bear. In Alaska many hunters there used the .375 cartridge. In the thick woods form Alaska and the northeast, the majority of the rifles were short barrels (carbines). Also, the majority were some flavors of iron sites as scopes are useless in thick woods and brush. The past couple years I have switched to the .500 S&W in a BHA carbine. The larger calibers will hammer right through the brush with a lot less deflection than the smaller calibers gross tunnage rules. I also have a 30/30 and have not used it for hunting in many years after using the 45/70. I missed a lot of deer with the 30/30 due to brush deflection of the round. The heavier 45/70 and now the .500 have been a better round in heavy brush and woods with little deflection.

Which is pretty much the point at lot of the tests I've read make.

No such thing as an absolute brush bucking cartridge, but some do better than others.

I do love absolutes though, like "I never shoot through brush cause I can't see beyond the target", when in reality all brush isn't created equal. Examples:

Probably about 55% of the time I don't get a 100% clear shot at a deer. When we do drives and still hunts it's less than that. We also shoot running deer Within woods distances it's not all that hard.

I've been fortunate that due to my Army career I've gotten to hunt in multiple states and countries. The terrain, game, and tactics vary from stands, to still hunts, spot and stalk to drives and driven hunts. IF you want to be successful, you adapt. I've yet to do dogs on deer though, although this one drive in upstate NY when the walkers were baying like hounds. It was interesting to say the least. Those guys hunted for meat, shot running deer, through brush to boot...

 

[Varminterror]

Seems like a good many people
these days just blast away instead
of passing on a marginal shot

Nah… that ain’t anything new, and frankly, evidence supports that new generations are less apt to take “marginal shots,” and less apt to “blast away.”

Gotta recall, “people these days” are the ones abandoning the “traditions” of the past, like using buckshot and driving deer, such any shot they get is at a moving deer, and any shot they take is marginalized by imprecision.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I've yet to do dogs on deer though, although this one drive in upstate NY when the walkers were baying like hounds. It was interesting to say the least. Those guys hunted for meat, shot running deer, through brush to boot...

Yup. I’ve got a buddy from Longisland (one word) who prefers the taste of venison from running deer. Says it’s sweeter somehow because of the adrenaline. To me it’s not as good but not bad either; if I had to do a side by side taste test I probably wouldn’t be able to tell the difference.
Every areas different as to what qualifies for “brush”. Down here in the swampy south we have a lot of palmetto and scrub oak. Palmetto is really hard to shoot through - it’s stringy and abrasive - so I don’t try. Some folks do and fill their quotas; some folks do and tell tall tales but come home to freezers filled with store bought meat.

 

[mcb]

Growing up in Ohio (slug only state) I did nearly all my hunting with a shotgun and thus it was my brush gun whether we were driving deer or trying to get the rabbits moving for the dogs. I have busted a lot of brush where the green briar and multiflora rose where over my head and despite it being 20 degrees out you were sweating breaking through that stuff. We also had large crab apple thickets with their 1+ inch long thorns that were almost as hard to push through. Most of the time I was carrying a 26-inch barrel 870 or later a 26-inch BPS. Never had an issue getting on a target if it was there. Never had much trouble identifying targets and if I did I didn't shoot. Shot a lot of rabbit in the multiflora rose and my first buck was shot in a gnarly crab apple thicket though for that one I was using a 24-inch Winchester 9410. For me brush hunting is more about the way you dress (stuff the briars can't easily pierce and snag) than it is about what gun I am carrying.

 

[FL-NC]

Shooting at game through obstructions with a rifle is not a good idea. If there is a "loophole" in the vegetation where the bullet can pass unobstructed into the animal, and the shooter has good target ID, then whatever else is in play is irrelevant- it was a clear shot. It may have been "tight", but it doesn't matter as long as the shooter is up to the task. In Fl., unless you are fortunate enough to be hunting a pasture, ag field, or clear-cut, plan on lots of "brush" most of the time. Especially when you are looking for a deer or hog that ran a ways because it wasn't DRT after the shot. For the most part, hunters here carry the same sort of rifles as anywhere else- traditional type hunting rifles, with sporter barrel profiles and barrel lengths between 18-22 inches. Given the range most deer are shot at, (100 yards or less) I think lots of hunters are over-gunned in caliber. I would say a light rifle, NOT in a long range caliber, with an optic that can be dialed down to a low power (4 or less) or even with iron sights or a red dot would make the most sense. So, not a heavy barrel 700 sendero in 300 win mag with a 5-20 scope. 45-70, 444, magnums, etc. are excessive in my opinion. Sure, they will work, and if that is all someone has, then use it- but calibers and guns that would be good for a buffalo, moose, or an elk at several hundred yards or more with high power type scopes are not going to be ideal or needed at these shorter ranges, regardless of what the vegetation is like- especially when the whole affair may go down really fast, and the shooter may not have ideal support (or any support) or positioning to make the shot.

 

[mcb]

This is all with the understand of the target has been clearly identified but you can shoot through a lot of fine brush if that brush is close to the target. Slugs, in my experience, do this very nicely. You see lots of video of hog hunter shooting through grass and brush that obscure parts of a clearly identified hog and it works because the grass and brush is right next to or only a few feet in front of the hog being shot.

 

[jmorris]

Compact rifles without a bunch of stuff to snag on every branch and vine are better in the thick stuff.

Not wanting to shoot through any vegetation reminds me of a time a buddy and I were shooting .22’s and he was having a hard time hitting the 300 yard target (about 15’ of drop from where we were zeroed). I told him to look at the tree 98 yards in front of us and find the lower leaf with bullet holes in it. He did, shot through it and hit the target, another 200 yards past it, same as I was doing. Not everything you hit will destroy accuracy.

There has been a number of articles testing the subject using wooden dowels and such. It’s going to matter a lot what, how and where you impact the other objects. Hitting a branch just past the muzzle is going to make a bigger difference than down range, hitting the bush the animal is hiding in. Those generally wind up just as dead.

 

[lightman]

When one says "brush gun" I think of a short lite rifle that shoots a slow moving heavy bullet. 45-70 comes to mind although there are several others.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

One point - THE point, really - that keeps getting glossed over: IT DEPENDS ON WHERE YOU ARE AND WHAT KIND OF "BRUSH"!!!

There's no "one size fits all" here fellas. Your perfect brush gun might totally suck where I hunt and vice-versa.

 

[.308 Norma]

One point - THE point, really - that keeps getting glossed over: IT DEPENDS ON WHERE YOU ARE AND WHAT KIND OF "BRUSH"!!!

There's no "one size fits all" here fellas. Your perfect brush gun might totally suck where I hunt and vice-versa.

Exactly!

 

[3Crows]

A "brush" gun for me is a rifle that is of carbine length or compact nature to allow quick handling and sleek so as not to tangle in the brush as I move through it still hunting and with open sights or low power optics. I prefer the .45 bore or .30+ bore rifles not for shooting through brush but to instead deliver a punishing blow to the critter so I do not have to go chasing or tracking it through the brush but if I do then a large enough wound to leave a good blood trail. Therefore nothing to do with shooting through brush but instead moving through the brush to take an opportune and clear shot. I would not shoot through brush even if there was a bullet that could do such a thing if I cannot clearly identify a target and back stop or ensure there is not a human in my line. So, yes, there are "brush" guns.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

There is no definition for what a "brush gun" is. It could literally be anything you want it to be.

My idea of a brush gun is simply one that's suitable for two things:

1. The game/varmints you're hunting.

2. The environment you're hunting in.

In brush conditions, you have two things to consider: effective visual range and potentially close quarters with shrubs/trees/etc. If you were on an open plain, you wouldn't have such considerations to think about, plus your hunting tactics would change.

Take rabbit hunting for example. Probably don't need a bolt action 30-06 with a 26 inch barrel. Its ridiculously over powered for rabbit (at least if you want anything left to eat) and would be a chore to tote around for hours in the field. The same gun would be well suited for wild hog hunting, however. But again, it would get pretty heavy after a few hours. Typically, when rabbit hunting you're trying to "scare up" rabbits from brush, and those buggers take off running like a bat out of Hell from one point of invisibility headed to another point of invisibility. A long barreled rifle might not be suitable. A shorter barreled one might be better. So, too, would a shotgun given the closer quarters involved.

Don't over think this. Just ask yourself what would be a suitable gun for your hunt in terms of game and environment.

 

[jak67429]

My "brush gun" is a ruger super Redhawk with 7/38" barrel. shooting a 240xtp at 1400fps.

 

[PistoleroWadcutterGANG]

Ozzy / Anzac SAS units with "The Bitch" comes to mind in Vietnam.

 

[gotboostvr]

I've always considered it fairly loosely. Just a couple requirements.

1. Shorter than average.
2. Sighting system particularly well suited for short range.
3. Powerful enough to deliver an incapacitating blow quickly.

That could be a 20" 45-70, or a 16" 44mag lever gun with peep sights.

Or a 18" 308win bolt action with a LPVO bolt action.

Or a 16" AR10 with a fixed 3x, or AR15 with a red dot.

Or simply a bare bones SKS or Winny '94.

I consider "Brush Gun" Synonymous with "Carbine".

 

[LimaCharlie]

Brush gun

 

[Buzznrose]

Interesting article. 45-70 and 12 gauge Slug for the win…

The Best Brush Busting Bullets Put to the Test

Brush rifles and brush bullets have been a topic of conversation for decades, but how effective are they at punching through thickets?

www.outdoorlife.com

 

[unclenunzie]

In the early 1980's I recall my BIL's family (subsistence/supplementing hunters) North of Albany NY favored the marlin 30-30 lever gun. I heard it described as a brush gun. I recall it as very common up there. That's all I got.

 

[Mini30SS]

Hard to do better than a Marlin 336 for a "brush gun". Especially in 35 rem caliber. 30-30 is also decent, but doesn't hit as hard under 100 yds.

 

[caribou]

If you have to shhot at an animal in the brush, a shotgun is best. Moose, Rabbits, Ptarmigan, Fox will always try and put leaves, bushes and such between you and them while they keep an eye on you. In a flash, they are 'gone' from view.
Bullet defelction by vegitation is very real; Using a rifle in that situation is one of trying to get that bullet "Down the hole" (My description) in the brush. I use a shotgun in those situations, if I have one along.

We also have Bears in those bushes. Sound and smell will tell you theres a Bear near, even if you dont see them. Switching to Slugs or Buck shot is a quick option.

The best Bear Gun in brush is a short, handy 12 gauge. A shotgun willl actually "stop" a Bear, physically.

A Remington 870 with a shorter barrel is my 'brush gun'.

 

[Hokkmike]

Which is pretty much the point at lot of the tests I've read make.

No such thing as an absolute brush bucking cartridge, but some do better than others.

I do love absolutes though, like "I never shoot through brush cause I can't see beyond the target", when in reality all brush isn't created equal. Examples:

Probably about 55% of the time I don't get a 100% clear shot at a deer. When we do drives and still hunts it's less than that. We also shoot running deer Within woods distances it's not all that hard.

I've been fortunate that due to my Army career I've gotten to hunt in multiple states and countries. The terrain, game, and tactics vary from stands, to still hunts, spot and stalk to drives and driven hunts. IF you want to be successful, you adapt. I've yet to do dogs on deer though, although this one drive in upstate NY when the walkers were baying like hounds. It was interesting to say the least. Those guys hunted for meat, shot running deer, through brush to boot...