Please Help identify my new 1851 navy

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doubleh said:
I am no help with the gun but what has me curious is how you determined the steel hardness.
Click to expand...
The guns are ASM from the 80's. ASM made them with leftover parts from the 2nd gen COLTs that they had been subcontracted by uberti to produce parts for.

As for the steel , you can feel the difference and hear it when tapped on. Im a big fan of ubertis forged steel parts but a pietta literally is set up excelle t straight out of the box.
These ASM feel much more different then Pietta or Uberti. The parts off this series of ASM all interchange with 1st and 2nd gen colts
 
doubleh said:
I am no help with the gun but what has me curious is how you determined the steel hardness.
Click to expand...
The guns are ASM from the 80's. ASM made them with leftover parts from the 2nd gen COLTs thethet were prodicing parts for.

As for the steel , you can feel the difference and hear it when tapped on. Im a big fan of ubertis forged steel parts but a pietta literally is set up excelle t straight out of the box.
These ASM feel much more different then Pietta or Uberti. The parts off this ASM
hawg said:
AFAIK ASM only made barrels for the Colt 2nd gens.
Click to expand...
AFAIK as well. But..... You know how manufacturing go's. Usually whoever already has the correct tooling and has the lowest bid gets the job.
I wouldnt be suprised if the whole gun was either Uberti or Asm.
Ive done a fair bit of studying on the subject of the 2nd gen colts and understand the background story of how the different series of bp revolvers came to be, but nothing would suprise me.
Either way Ive never held anything that feels as good in the hand as these ASM1851 navys. The actions arent as smooth and crisp as my piettas but they jist fit in the hand and point like no other.
 
Blackpowderwarrior said:
The guns are ASM from the 80's. ASM made them with leftover parts from the 2nd gen COLTs thethet were prodicing parts for.

As for the steel , you can feel the difference and hear it when tapped on. Im a big fan of ubertis forged steel parts but a pietta literally is set up excelle t straight out of the box.
These ASM feel much more different then Pietta or Uberti. The parts off this ASM

AFAIK as well. But..... You know how manufacturing go's. Usually whoever already has the correct tooling and has the lowest bid gets the job.
I wouldnt be suprised if the whole gun was either Uberti or Asm.
Ive done a fair bit of studying on the subject of the 2nd gen colts and understand the background story of how the different series of bp revolvers came to be, but nothing would suprise me.
Either way Ive never held anything that feels as good in the hand as these ASM1851 navys. The actions arent as smooth and crisp as my piettas but they jist fit in the hand and point like no other.
Click to expand...

I spoke at length with Dr. Jim Davis aka bprevolver. He was probably the foremost authority on reproduction revolvers. He told me Colt contracted Uberti to supply parts for the 2nd gens. Uberti couldn't keep up with production and subcontracted ASM to make Colt marked barrels. When Colt ceased production ASM got stuck with a lot of Colt marked barrels and used them on their own guns. Colt sued them and won. He didn't say anything about other parts being made by ASM. ASM's were close to the original dimensions. Ubertis are bigger. Piettas are even bigger.
 
hawg said:
Colt sued them and won.
Click to expand...
I have hunted for that law suit for many years now and can find no record of it.
The information in the depositions would have been invaluable in solving this mystery!!!!
I'm guessing Colt had their lawyer write Giuseppe Buffoli a nice polite letter about how they would OWN his company if he DIDN'T cease and desist and he got the message without an actual legal filing ever being necessary.
 
hawg said:
Originals were marked Colt's Patent No. Followed by the last four digits of the serial number.
Click to expand...

That is the way mine are all marked except the serial numbers have usually not been added.

I have so far found factory Colt addressed Armi San Marco versions of:
Walkers
1848 Baby Dragoons (in various lengths and both with and without loading levers)
1849 Pocket Pistols (in both octagonal as well as part round "dragoon" barrels and various lengths both with loading levers and as "Wells Fargo's" without)
1st, 2nd & 3rd Model Dragoons (the latter in both civilian and military styles)
1851 Navy's in both .36 and .44 (bored out original .36 barrels maybe?)
1860 Army's in both engraved and full fluted cylinders
1861 Navy's
1862 Pocket Police
1862 Pocket Navy
These span the late 70's through late 80's in Italian Proof Codes.

I am still looking for a Whitneyville Walker with Colt addressed barrel and Colt cylinder.
To my knowledge, ASM never made a Paterson replica.

Most of mine have "Left Hand" addressed barrels. (see post back a bit)
While that was correct for original Walkers, most other original Colt models had "Right Hand" addresses.
ASM 1851's seem to appear in both flavors.

IMHO - The Walkers and Right Hand 1851's were left over parts that ASM got stuck with (as HAWG wisely mentions above.)
I think that Buffoli then simply ran his roll engraver backwards on new barrels to take advantage of his investment in the dies and produce a unique product that was different from real Colt products.
At some point, he liked the look and started roll engraving his other models as well and sold them as his special "top of the line" items.

NOTE - These ASM products with factory roll engraved Colt addresses can be distinguished from ones with hand struck after market addresses by the deformation of the metal surface around each letter in the latter.
 
Blackpowderwarrior said:
The guns are ASM from the 80's. ASM made them with leftover parts from the 2nd gen COLTs thethet were prodicing parts for.

As for the steel , you can feel the difference and hear it when tapped on. Im a big fan of ubertis forged steel parts but a pietta literally is set up excelle t straight out of the box.
These ASM feel much more different then Pietta or Uberti. The parts off this ASM

AFAIK as well. But..... You know how manufacturing go's. Usually whoever already has the correct tooling and has the lowest bid gets the job.
I wouldnt be suprised if the whole gun was either Uberti or Asm.
Ive done a fair bit of studying on the subject of the 2nd gen colts and understand the background story of how the different series of bp revolvers came to be, but nothing would suprise me.
Either way Ive never held anything that feels as good in the hand as these ASM1851 navys. The actions arent as smooth and crisp as my piettas but they jist fit in the hand and point like no other.
Click to expand...
I too own a bunch of ASMs , they can be a little rough on the internals but they do tune really nice! My 1851 is a great demonstration piece for my tuning service. Smooth as silk and perfect lock up. It did take a little work to get there but the end results are worth it.
 
I don't have to look any farther than my hands. Knarly, skinny, tissue paper tough, scaly, and without a good sense of touch anymore. I can't even develop calluses, just bloody spots where the skin peels off. This age thing is kind of tough on a person ain't it.
 
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