Please no Conspiracy Theories in the Gunstore

[Liberty1776]

Well, possibly you think you are being persecuted, because people are not agreeing with your opinion that people should not express their opinions...



that may be why.

 

[Axel Larson]

As I have said they can if they want but scaring away potential gun owners is not a good thing I also realize this is just one thing that people need to work on with new gun owners. For instance male employees always telling the woman that walks in wanting a gun that she needs a revolver.

 

[Sam1911]

Oh, I know. I just don't know what could possibly be done about it, except let the market eventually rectify the situation ... if "the market" wants to. I mean to say, there does seem to be an increasing number of gun consumers who come from the ranks of the average, relatively sane (), non-conspiracy-minded, middle-class Joe and Jane and who will reward with their repeat business modern, professionally- and competently-staffed gun stores that meet their needs with a minimum of absurd and overheated bluster, violent vitriol, and hours'-worth of opinion that really should not have been aired in public.

But...there are still lots of "us" out there that hit their local shop just to top off their tanks full of the weekly dose of crazy, to find validation for their own paranoia, fears, and prejudices, and to enjoy a rare safe haven where they won't be judged for their lack of critical thinking (or hygiene, fashion sense, manners, intelligence, or whatever other constraints the liberal, wussified world foists off on them out in everyday life).

It's a tough balancing act, really. Should a gun shop look and feel like Target, or a car dealership, or a jewelry store, or Macy's? Or should it look and feel more like Henry P. Grogan's surplus shop as recounted in so many of Pat McManus' great stories?

Honestly, I LOVED ratty old cramped and dusty gun shops as a kid. The more junk there was piled up to paw through, the worse of a fire hazard the place was, the more stacks of 10 year old gun magazines were stacked up next to the disgusting couches around the cigarette machine (remember those???) the better! And the same grizzled old patrons should be always there, in the same spots (and clothes!) every day, growing roots into the splitting seat cushions, telling the same outrageous story about killing hundreds of (fill in the enemy of whichever most recent war) over and over. And the staff was NOT supposed to be friendly, or helpful, and braving their countenances to finally BUY SOMETHING was a rite of passage!

But now? Uh, honestly ... that kind of thing annoys me more than engages me. I just don't have time for that nosie, and I won't put an uninitiated pal through it if I can help it. These days I'll go wherever I know we'll be able to see what we're looking for and we'll get MINIMAL, competent service so we can be on our way in a timely fashion.


But, long story short...an entrepreneur can pretty much run things as he wants. The market is largely the only thing that will change (...or IS changing) the way things have been for so long. Patronize the kind of business that represents what you want to see (vote with your dollars) and hope that enough others do the same that they will succeed and the other type will fade away.

 

[Beentown]

Thanks for kindling up the memory for me Sam.

 

[splattergun]

TO MLJ fair enough. What I mean (and I hope you people realize this) is that it is bad to scare of potential gun owners and the only way we are to keep the gun culture alive is to bring new people in and introduce them to it and some might be less inclined to do that after hearing something that is not based on facts. I am not saying you shouldn't be able to say those things just asking you not to.

Something not based on fact?
How many times have you witnessed someone get scared and leave because people discussing their views in a gun store? Where is your proof this is happening?

The 1st amendment is alive and generally well, my friend (though it does suffer from factitis). It is alive because it is protected by the 2nd amendment, which though alive, is suffering from attacks of a virulent nature.

These discussions of conspiracy theories you are concerned about are a sign that a population with strong belief in the right to defend liberty are doing exactly that. They are watching, preparing and trying to wake the sleepy drones. Are all their theories factual truth? No. Are they all factual falsehoods? No. Some of what they rant about is the truth.

When my dog growls at night, it is usually a neighbor walking down the street. But sometimes he is growling at someone I don't know at my gate. I would be a fool to ignore all his warnings, even though many of them are false alarms. These gun store talkers are not scaring many, if any, people away. Just making themselves look silly. A wise man will take what they say with a grain of salt, but remember it just the same.

Let them talk, for you are beginning to sound like an echo of Biden's belligerent "black helicopter crowd" comments. And he is no friend of the Constitution.

 

[bigdaa]

I have heard many things and I have said many things.

All of it is talk. You cannot prevent people from talking these days and everybody wants their opinion to be heard.

Being quiet and listening gives us all the opportunity to understand more around us than people think we know.

 

[itsa pain]

this country went to war with the backing of most on a pack of lies hundreds of thousands killed millions displaced trillions will be spent but why does a guy that makes a statement after he does some research have to have concrete signed by the pope proof. I say give them what they give us

 

[JohnBT]

"These discussions of conspiracy theories you are concerned about are a sign that a population with strong belief in the right to defend liberty are doing exactly that."

I see them as a sign that someone is a bit out of touch with reality and talking about some oddball theory with no supporting facts. I've left gun stores, not because I was scared as you put it, but because I wanted to be out in the parking lot when I broke out laughing at the silliness being spouted inside. I don't see what conspiracy theories have to do with defending liberty.

 

[shafter]

This may have been done before but I was just in the local gun store talking and picking up fishing licenses and one of guys I was talking to nice guy but was going on about this that and the other that the government does. It makes the rest of us look bad and may drive away potential gun owners who come in. So please leave out side the gun store.

I'm kinda tired of people bending over backwards and walking on egg shells to "not look bad". I sure don't see the antis trying to "not look bad". Stand up for your opinions whatever they may be.

BTW, the gunshop owner will kick out the guy if he's driving customers away.

 

[0to60]

This may have been done before but I was just in the local gun store talking and picking up fishing licenses and one of guys I was talking to nice guy but was going on about this that and the other that the government does. It makes the rest of us look bad and may drive away potential gun owners who come in. So please leave out side the gun store.

You're absolutely right. Its embarrassing at my LGS. I can't tell who's crazier, the customers or the guys working there. If the salesmen are spouting this stuff to sell guns, I understand that, but the sheeple that shop there actually believe this stuff. I think the worst thing for the country is people running around acting on bad info.

Looking like crazy extremists doesn't serve us. If we marginalize ourselves, that's not gonna help us defend our rights. Being levelheaded and reasonable is the most effective way to present our case to the gun control people.

 

[MichigammeDave]

I agree with Sam. The market will prevail. But most people aren't patient enough to wait for the market to do its job, and so decide they'll move it along with a little nudge. Maybe a new law, maybe a new restriction, maybe a petition or some other way to control the speech of those who disagree. Both sides do it, and usually for the same reason. The market moves slowly, and we're not, as a race, very patient.
That's okay. We'll get the government the majority of us deserve. And then we'll be sorry. And maybe the market will work then.

 

[shafter]

Being levelheaded and reasonable is the most effective way to present our case to the gun control people.

I hate to break it to you but they don't care about common sense, logic, or reasonableness. They don't care because half of what the nuts in the gunshops are saying is probably true.

 

[Wayne02]

I'm kinda tired of people bending over backwards and walking on egg shells to "not look bad". I sure don't see the antis trying to "not look bad". Stand up for your opinions whatever they may be.

BTW, the gunshop owner will kick out the guy if he's driving customers away.

Good point. Sometimes it feels like we spend more time worrying about how we look and running each other down than we do standing together and fighting for the 2A.

 

[Sam1911]

But most people aren't patient enough to wait for the market to do its job, and so decide they'll move it along with a little nudge. Maybe a new law, maybe a new restriction, maybe a petition or some other way to control the speech of those who disagree.

Ha ha ...I'm not sure we'll see the day when there's a new bill in DC to limit the conspiracy theorizing free speech of gun shop clerks and customers, but I guess you just never know!

But on that note of giving a little "nudge" -- remember that part of being a good customer is to provide feedback to the owners of an establishment that lets them know what you like -- and what you DON'T like -- about their shop. You aren't stepping on their rights in ANY WAY if you send the owner a polite note or email to say you appreciated the professionalism of his clerks ... or that you find an employee's hot-headed bull-oney off-putting and to be very likely detrimental to his business. A smart entrepreneur works very hard to eliminate ANYTHING that keeps customers from coming back to his shop. He'll want to know if he's got some budding Alex Jones jackass wasting his customers' time haranguing them with "fearful feces" and rants about NWO boogeymen.

So you can "nudge" the free market along without treading for an instant on anyone's rights or bringing down the attention of "big brother."

Sometimes it feels like we spend more time worrying about how we look and running each other down than we do standing together and fighting for the 2A.

Surely, and that's a fair point. On the other hand you do have to take some level of care about who you claim as allies. Some of the folks who will say they're on our side are the same nuts who publish long treatises about how the moon landing was all a big hoax or the gubbermint is releasing mind control chemicals in jet "chemtrails", etc...! It does us no good, and great harm to associate the intelligent, well-founded, and righteous movement for the full recognition of the right to arms for all people with moonbats whose antics are debilitating distractions from our goals and a lightning rod for ridicule and denigration.

 

[jon_in_wv]

The problem is when you keep piping off about all the ridiculous conspiracy theories it discredits everything else you say. Stick to REAL issues. The REAL things the governments is doing is more than enough. Leave the ammo, black helicopter, and the rest of the conspiracies with the nuts with the tin foil hats.

 

[Bubba613]

Reference: 1st Amendment.

I try to keep the conversation light when there's new customers in the shop but to every man his freedom of speech is essential (and certainly not unwarranted during these times).

The First Amendment was suspended in my shop for anyone else but me. While I have yet to kick anyone out for spouting nonsense (although the guy defending al Qaeda because the US firebombed Dresden came close) philosophically I have no issue with doing so.

 

[USAF-ORF]

People are becoming condition to remain silent

I recently purchased a tee shirt from a favored ar parts supplier. The back of the shirt reads (I support a woman's right to choose) It has several different rifles and handguns along with the script. When my wife sent me for milk and bread she commented "your not going to wear that in public are you" well yes. She replied "don't get into any arguments with crazies" As you guessed these shirts were made in response to the Colorodo law makers who told rape victims that a gun would have not stopped their rapes and they should try vomiting or peeing on their attackers. I got several weird looks because I had a shirt withs guns on it. When I was in a checkout line one person asked what the meaning was of the shirt. I explained the lawmakers insults to the victims. I received a nod but could tell people have become uncomfortable discussing 2nd amendment rights. I feel with all the anti 2nd speechs blasting the airways. That most folks are afraid to speak out in public. We must collectively speak up with rational speech and facts. More people are murdered every year with hammers than with Personal Defense rifles or dare I say it "Assault rifles"

 

[friscolatchi]

You just have to gauge who or who not to talk to, and what or what not to talk about. Do not make comments to people you don't know until you know enough about them to make them. Then be prudent.

 

[Sam1911]

You just have to gauge who or who not to talk to, and what or what not to talk about. Do not make comments to people you don't know until you know enough about them to make them.

That's great advice! The famous quote going back at least to Samuel Johnson is, "Never miss the opportunity to keep your mouth shut."

But those of us who can manage to remember that sage advice are probably those who are least likely to indulge in the "FUD" to begin with!

The gun store conspiracist holding court at the counter tends to remind me of Ron White's story...
"This guy told me his entire life story against my will. This guy raped my ear. This guy forcibly shoved unwanted information into my ear hole! No means no!"

 

[Akita1]

Oh, it would be a beautiful dream if, all across the land, when folks entered a gun shop they found it clean, well-lit, well-stocked, and staffed by polite, well-dressed, well groomed and bathed folks who know things that are true and who manage to limit their conversation to concise factual statements aimed at helping folks make wise choices and completing transactions in a timely manner.

Dare to dream!

But that just isn't real life, most of the time. Why do we care that it happens in gun shops? I mean, if you were to go into most any other establishment (barber shop, auto repair garage, accountant's office, the nurses' station at the local hospital, the police department ... probably ANYWHERE) and start quizzing folks about what they know or think they know or believe, you'd find an appalling set of crazy ideas, mistaken beliefs and convictions, lies they've swallowed from the "MSM" and politicians, and pet theories about the powers-that-be who are threatening the staus quo of their area of interest.

Is it any crazier to hear your local gun shop clerk spout off about Sandy Hook being an "inside job" to get folks to swallow new gun control laws than it is to hear your auto-body repair guy rant about how the EPA is in a conspiracy with big chains to try and drive small shops out of business with their new non-VOC paint requirements? Or the nurses to complain that TPTB are trying to force more experienced, higher-paid, staff out of their positions so they can fill them with bargain-basement low-wage labor fresh out of junior college? And on and on.

Everybody's crazy. We just get embarrassed when "our" folks show off how nutzo folks on "our" side can be. But there's little that can be done about it except on a shop-by-shop basis and then only if there's strong company leadership willing to demand better of the staff.

100% agree; just depends on whether or not they are your personal brand of crazy. If so, we call them kindred spirits. If not, we pull out the tinfoil hat condescension. Rorschach test!

 

[Akita1]

You just have to gauge who or who not to talk to, and what or what not to talk about. Do not make comments to people you don't know until you know enough about them to make them. Then be prudent.

Are you saying ring-fence 1A? You can say anything you want at any time to anyone, so long as you are not violating the law or creating harm to the greater good (e.g., hate speech). Agreed with the discretion of a "you never know who you're talking to" philosophy, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't converse intelligently with your fellow citizens about any topic, you just have to be prepared for an actual response!

 

[Akita1]

I recently purchased a tee shirt from a favored ar parts supplier. The back of the shirt reads (I support a woman's right to choose) It has several different rifles and handguns along with the script. When my wife sent me for milk and bread she commented "your not going to wear that in public are you" well yes. She replied "don't get into any arguments with crazies" As you guessed these shirts were made in response to the Colorodo law makers who told rape victims that a gun would have not stopped their rapes and they should try vomiting or peeing on their attackers. I got several weird looks because I had a shirt withs guns on it. When I was in a checkout line one person asked what the meaning was of the shirt. I explained the lawmakers insults to the victims. I received a nod but could tell people have become uncomfortable discussing 2nd amendment rights. I feel with all the anti 2nd speechs blasting the airways. That most folks are afraid to speak out in public. We must collectively speak up with rational speech and facts. More people are murdered every year with hammers than with Personal Defense rifles or dare I say it "Assault rifles"

I'm getting one of this t-shirts ASAP

 

[Leanwolf]

ALEX LARSEN - " ... the only way we are to keep the gun culture alive ..."

What is "the gun culture??"

I hear that phrase all the time from the left wing anti-gun bliss ninnies who use it as a derogatory epithet, but I don't know what it is.

Is "the gun culture" anyone who actually owns a gun? Or is it those who actually believe in the Second Amendment, and the Unalienable Right of self defense?

Or is it those gun owners who do not believe in the constant infringment of their Rights, by the left wing anti-gun wannabee tyrants?

Just wondering.

L.W.

 

[jon_in_wv]

The "gun culture" is a phrase that has never been used in a positive way or by a gun owner of any type. Its an ignorant classification of people who own guns by the media.

 

[CZguy]

But...there are still lots of "us" out there that hit their local shop just to top off their tanks full of the weekly dose of crazy, to find validation for their own paranoia, fears, and prejudices, and to enjoy a rare safe haven where they won't be judged for their lack of critical thinking (or hygiene, fashion sense, manners, intelligence, or whatever other constraints the liberal, wussified world foists off on them out in everyday life).

I just make my weekly rounds because I'm still wanting a Whitney Wolverine.