Pocket Carry and Driving

[azrocks]

I guess you didn't get the part about being blocked in and then decided that a post full of wishful thinking and hoping those are the cards you're dealt in an attack are the way to go.

Leaving room to get around is a good strategy and obviously if you can avoid a fight and drive away that works quite a bit better. Drive on the sidewalk, through yards, scrape by cars or whatever, but try to get away. However the fact remains many times your path is blocked by other vehicles, (light, electric and telephone) poles, concrete barriers, bridge embankments and other barriers that will immediately impede your travel. Many times you be able to see clearly and see if someone gets out of their car to attack, but you won't be able to leave the immediate area due to the aforementioned obstacles.

I guess you can believe that you always do *this* or always do *that* and that the deck will always be in your favor, but that's not the way life works. There are things that you can do to make the most out of a crappy situation, but to pretend that the obstacles themselves are never going to be there is a fairly blind way of thinking.

I know the way life works, and it doesn't work the way you suggest. At least not in my AO.

You keep saying 'Many Times' like being carjacked or kidnapped on the open roads is a common occurrence in the USA. It is not. Statistically, the chances of you ever having to defend yourself with a firearm are extremely low. By the time you get around to 'defend yourself with a firearm from the front seat of your vehicle against someone attacking you on foot in rush hour traffic', it's hardly worth preparing for. Could it happen? Sure. Will it happen? Highly unlikely. So which preparations do you focus on? The ones least likely to occur, or the ones most likely to occur? How many times have you had to deal with such a crime? I'm going to guess never. Am I right? If so, that's a whole lot less than 'many'.

The OP's problem is one of choice (unless he buys another firearm specifically for a vehicle gun)... either he keeps it in his pocket, or pulls it out. In the rare circumstances y'all have presented in defense of your argument, he might better be served by having the handgun immediately accessible. But in the scenarios I've alluded to (like waiting until there's a change in control to make your move), having the handgun on your person would be advantageous. It could work either way, and depending on any number of variables, one might be preferable to the other. So as far as a defense against carjacking/robbery/kidnapping, you might as well flip a coin. That is all assuming, of course, that you have enough time to see the threat coming at you. Most likely you won't, which means that knee-jerk reaction of reaching for your gun is only going to make you an immediate 'shoot me now' target for someone who isn't motion-restricted and has a weapon already trained on you.

Now let's take these exceptional predicaments out of the equation, and focus on more common threats (including the very real threat of a ND when you're taking your weapon in & out of your pocket/holster multiple times per day). In most circumstances, is it better to have the handgun on you or not? What if you get lazy and leave it in the car (you will) the one time you need it? What if it slides off your seat while you drive, making it less accessible than if it was in your pocket? What if the carjacker sees it and decides to immediately start shooting?

 

[azrocks]

I drive in the manner you describe, but I have no control over whether there is a car in front of me at a light, or whether traffic, retaining walls on the median, etc, block maneuvering to the left and right. That's a fact of life driving in urban environments, short of being able to run a convoy or motorcade with traffic control. That was the case when day when a man exited the vehicle in front of me with a tire iron and an attitude; retaining wall left, his car in front of me, and traffic to the right. I suppose Sierra Vista could be described as a third-world country to some, but I considered a fairly common small city environment.

Why did the man get out and threaten you? Just a completely random occurrence? No tail-gating, road games, friendly fingers, or hard looks? Absolutely nothing you could have done to avoid the situation?
Also, if he was in front of you, what kept you from just running him over?
Finally, since we're discussing the use of guns in vehicles, how did your gun save your life that day?

 

[Browning]

I know the way life works, and it doesn't work the way you suggest. At least not in my AO.

Ironic that you say that since I just happened to read that Phoenix is the kidnapping capitol of the US.

You keep saying 'Many Times' like being carjacked or kidnapped on the open roads is a common occurrence in the USA. It is not. Statistically, the chances of you ever having to defend yourself with a firearm are extremely low. By the time you get around to 'defend yourself with a firearm from the front seat of your vehicle against someone attacking you on foot in rush hour traffic', it's hardly worth preparing for. Could it happen? Sure. Will it happen? Highly unlikely. So which preparations do you focus on? The ones least likely to occur, or the ones most likely to occur? How many times have you had to deal with such a crime? I'm going to guess never. Am I right? If so, that's a whole lot less than 'many'.

Holy wall of text Batman. I'll just cut the filler out and keep what I need (which turns out to be very little) and replace it with my own wall of text.

Wasn't just talking about kidnapping solely, was speaking about violent crime in general which includes kidnapping.

In 2015, there were an estimated 1,197,704 violent crimes. Murder and non-negligent manslaughter increased 10.8 percent when compared with estimates from 2014.

Rape and aggravated assault increased 6.3 percent and 4.6 percent, respectively, while robbery increased 1.4 percent.

Forcible abduction statistics of both adults and children in the United States are all over the place and a bit harder to pin down. I suspect there's some fundamental difference in how the United States defines 'kidnapping' compared to other nations and even among the different states. 258,115 reported kidnappings out of 311.6 million people would give the United States a score on that chart of 82.8 per 100,000 -- more than the top 11 nations on that list combined. That defies all reason.

If the United States includes custody dispute kidnappings in their tally and other nations do not, that would mean the proper calculation comes from dividing 58,115 by the 311.6 million population to give the USA a score of 18.65 -- the rate of the US would be 2.24 per 100,000.

If only kidnap-for-ransom, kidnap-and-murder, and kidnap-to-keep criminal abductions are counted, the US rate drops to 115 out of 311.6 million, or 0.037 per 100,000. (Quora, nationmaster and the US Dept of Justice)

At any rate say for argument sake that the lowest number that I found for forcible abduction of both adults and children (115 for the total United States only including a few of the motives for kidnapping) when you add 1,197,704 to that number you get the figure of 1,197,819. Now how many of those violent crimes occur in and around vehicles? I don't know. There are no statistics to base including vehicles into the equation, but if even 10% of them occur in and around vehicles (a potentially significantly smaller percentage than it actually might be since vehicles are how most people get around these days and being out in transitional spaces provides violent criminals with more opportunities to victimize people) then your idea and my idea of a small number differ a great deal.

That's our pool of violent crime.

Just because most people do not get concealed carry permit's and carry handguns on them or in their vehicles isn't really my problem. They could be armed if they chose.

Most don't take CPR classes either.

The majority of states are either shall issue or they don't require any sort of permit to carry at all. Just because they chose to watch Dancing with the Stars or Keeping up with the Kardashians and sit on the couch while I went to Tac-Pro, lifted weights and took martial arts classes isn't really my concern.

The OP's problem is one of choice (unless he buys another firearm specifically for a vehicle gun)... either he keeps it in his pocket, or pulls it out. In the rare circumstances y'all have presented in defense of your argument, he might better be served by having the handgun immediately accessible.

Really??? Ya think?

Once he hits his car he could change carry position. If I pocket carry that day it's what I do.

Seems more like you're arguing that he doesn't need to carry at all. I mean the US being so safe and all.

So as far as a defense against carjacking/robbery/kidnapping, you might as well flip a coin. That is all assuming, of course, that you have enough time to see the threat coming at you. Most likely you won't, which means that knee-jerk reaction of reaching for your gun is only going to make you an immediate 'shoot me now' target for someone who isn't motion-restricted and has a weapon already trained on you.

Usually what qualities posters attribute to "most people" tells you more about what they think of their own abilities rather than what's actually true of others.

I've learned this from the anti-freedom crowd when they're trying to get people like me to give up their rights and get us to think that we'd screw it up anyway despite years of training because they put newbie shooters in a sims class meant to resemble an active shooter situation.

If you pay attention to your surroundings (you're in your vehicle, you should be doing that anyway) you might be surprised what people are capable of.

If they truly get the jump on you feigning compliance might very well be your best course of action until either the incident is over or you get a chance to intervene in your own emergency.

Now let's take these exceptional predicaments out of the equation, and focus on more common threats (including the very real threat of a ND when you're taking your weapon in & out of your pocket/holster multiple times per day). In most circumstances, is it better to have the handgun on you or not? What if you get lazy and leave it in the car (you will) the one time you need it? What if it slides off your seat while you drive, making it less accessible than if it was in your pocket? What if the carjacker sees it and decides to immediately start shooting?

Once again, that tells me more about what you believe will likely happen if YOU carry. Not necessarily what will happen with others.

 

[Kleanbore]

Generally speaking, if you find yourself in a situation where you're forced to fight from the seat of your car, you've already failed. And if you are having to fight from the seat of your car, you'd probably have a better chance of winning the fight if you were anywhere but the front seat. That is unless you're driving the car and using it as a weapon, which IMO is one of the best things you could do, second only to using your vehicle to exit, stage right.

One of the risks to consider is that of being carjacked by someone who jumps into the passenger seat by surprise just when you have dropped someone off. I would not characterize that entry in terms of the defender having "already failed". At that point, the defender has no choice but to be in the driver's seat. Likely? No. Serious in terms of potential consequences? Yes.

 

[typhun]

6:30 into vid is how i do it these days, seems like it would be uncomfortable but it isnt for me. I do keep mine in the pocket holster under the leg.

 

[DownInTheDark]

A dashboard works well for leaving a gun on.

 

[bearcreek]

A dashboard works well for leaving a gun on.

Not when a wreck turns it into a projectile.

 

[DownInTheDark]

Not when a wreck turns it into a projectile.

I don't wear my seatbelt, so that will be the least of my worries.

 

[Drail]

I drove limos at night in a big city for a couple of years and the best rig I found was a cross draw on a good belt. It doesn't interfere with or get tangled in a seat belt and is always accessible - in or out of the vehicle. I believe the gun absolutely needs to be secured to your person because it will be a very deadly projectile in a bad wreck if it is loosely stowed.

 

[azrocks]

Holy wall of text Batman. I'll just cut the filler out and keep what I need (which turns out to be very little) and replace it with my own wall of text.

Apparently you view paragraphs longer than one sentence long to be a wall of text. I would have to disagree.

In 2015, there were an estimated 1,197,704 violent crimes...

I won't include the bulk of your violent crime statistics. You sound like a member of the media, trying to use numbers to convince everyone that our lives are in immediate peril. All I'll say is that the VAST MAJORITY of those crimes happen between criminals and people who associate with criminals. Not saying there isn't a need for personal protection. Just saying that using violent crime statistics to make it sound like random people are being kidnapped as a matter of routine on the streets of downtown USA is somewhat disingenuous.

By the way - regarding Phoenix kidnappings - almost all of them are directly related to the human trafficking business down here. So if you're not a Mexican national who got tied up with the cartel trying to get your butt across the border (or a family member of said illegal), then your chances of being kidnapped are pretty darned slim. Like "I'll wait for the lightning strike" slim. The reason kidnappings are a thing here is because illegal aliens - aka the people who won't go to the police - are the targets.

I'm not saying we don't have a need for personal protection. And I'm certainly not saying we don't have a right to it. All I'm saying is that you can never be prepared for everything, and oftentimes preparing for one thing makes you less prepared for another. If you don't focus your training and preparations on the things most likely to occur - in my opinion - you're simply doing things wrong.

Really??? Ya think?

Once he hits his car he could change carry position. If I pocket carry that day it's what I do.

Seems more like you're arguing that he doesn't need to carry at all. I mean the US being so safe and all.

Ah yes, the old "If you don't agree with me you must be anti-gun" nonsense. Save it. I already described my logic in detail. If you disagree fine, but don't try to label me something I'm not just because you feel differently.
All I'm saying is restating what should be obvious: If you've only got one tool (a gun in this case), the very act of preparing that tool to be used in one type of circumstance can make it less useful in another. In this case, if we're taking the gun out of our pocket, that means that if a situation occurs where having the gun already on your person would be more advantageous (use your imagination - I can think of tons of scenarios), then you're less prepared for that incident! That's why I actually rank the probability of a potential bad-thing happening and prepare in kind.

Usually what qualities posters attribute to "most people" tells you more about what they think of their own abilities rather than what's actually true of others.

I've learned this from the anti-freedom crowd when they're trying to get people like me to give up their rights and get us to think that we'd screw it up anyway despite years of training because they put newbie shooters in a sims class meant to resemble an active shooter situation.

If you pay attention to your surroundings (you're in your vehicle, you should be doing that anyway) you might be surprised what people are capable of.

If they truly get the jump on you feigning compliance might very well be your best course of action until either the incident is over or you get a chance to intervene in your own emergency.

Once again, that tells me more about what you believe will likely happen if YOU carry. Not necessarily what will happen with others.

Yeah, here it comes again. I disagree with your strategic decisions so make sure to align me with the 'anti-freedom' crowd. Whatever. Here's my stance: Feel free to make whatever nonsensical decisions you wish. I'm the last person to care one way or the other unless your actions cause problems for me.

I do find it puzzling that you're bagging on me for downplaying the importance of preparing for vehicular warfare, yet you admittedly tote nothing more than a pocket gun, at least on a part-time basis. Could you please explain this logic to me? You've made the choice to be least prepared (as gun-carriers go) during the times where you're most likely - by a really large margin - to have need of a firearm. But I'm talking gibberish to suggest that shooting it out from your front seat should be pretty far down the list of things to base your preparations on?

By the way, speaking of training... how many of you have actually trained to shoot from a car? Actually done it? Not once or twice, but enough to make it stick? And if you have... why didn't you spend that time training for a more likely circumstance? .

 

[Kleanbore]

There was a scenario shown on The Best Defense a coup;e of years ago in which someone imprudently allowed himself to be talked into taking a person somewhere in his car. As the passenger got out when they arrived, an armed man jumped into the car, forced the diver to exit, and shot him, for the purpose of taking the car.

No, one should NOT give rides to strangers.

But my doctor's wife witnessed two car-jackings in a parking lot in an ostensibly safe place, and another one was described on the news. The last one resulted in the female driver being taken at gunpoint to an aTM. She was released unharmed, but it might well have ended differently.

One should, of course, keep the doors locked, but it is not possible to guard against a surprise entry by someone during the brief moment in which one is picking someone up or dropping them off. Situational awareness? Looking around first? Great idea, and it might work, or it might not.

I carry IWB or OWB on the right side---not too useful when I am strapped into the driver's seat. In the console? Trying to access a gun with the right hand when there is a violent criminal actor in the car would be pretty risky.

I prefer left hand access. A revolver in a vest pocket would seem ideal.

Would that amount to preparing for an improbable incident? Sure. So is carrying a gun or pepper spray or a fire extinguisher or a first aid kit. But considering the severity of the potential consequences of the risk and the very small effort needed to mitigate it, it would be difficult to argue that it is not prudent.

 

[azrocks]

There was a scenario shown on The Best Defense a coup;e of years ago in which someone imprudently allowed himself to be talked into taking a person somewhere in his car. As the passenger got out when they arrived, an armed man jumped into the car, forced the diver to exit, and shot him, for the purpose of taking the car.

No, one should NOT give rides to strangers.

But my doctor's wife witnessed two car-jackings in a parking lot in an ostensibly safe place, and another one was described on the news. The last one resulted in the female driver being taken at gunpoint to an aTM. She was released unharmed, but it might well have ended differently.

One should, of course, keep the doors locked, but it is not possible to guard against a surprise entry by someone during the brief moment in which one is picking someone up or dropping them off. Situational awareness? Looking around first? Great idea, and it might work, or it might not.

I carry IWB or OWB on the right side---not too useful when I am strapped into the driver's seat. In the console? Trying to access a gun with the right hand when there is a violent criminal actor in the car would be pretty risky.

I prefer left hand access. A revolver in a vest pocket would seem ideal.

Would that amount to preparing for an improbable incident? Sure. So is carrying a gun or pepper spray or a fire extinguisher or a first aid kit. But considering the severity of the potential consequences of the risk and the very small effort needed to mitigate it, it would be difficult to argue that it is not prudent.

If you're not sacrificing capability in one more probable circumstance to gain performance in one least likely, where's the harm? I'd consider your decision and rationale wise.

The last thing I'm suggesting is that it's a bad idea to have a gun ready for any circumstance. If it only makes you safer how could it be wrong?

I see your situation as significantly different from that of a person who takes his only gun in/out of concealment and on/off his body each & every time they enter/exit their car. This seems to be the OP's situation, and in those terms, I can't help but see some potential downsides.

 

[Kleanbore]

I see your situation as significantly different from that of a person who takes his only gun in/out of concealment and on/off his body each & every time they enter/exit their car. This seems to be the OP's situation, and in those terms, I can't help but see some potential downsides.

Agree. The only time I do that is what going into a hospital or a doctor's office when it is necessary to do so.

 

[Browning]

About the part of your post where you thought I was saying that you were anti-gun or that you have to agree with me or else, I don't know if you're anti-2A or not.

I kinda doubt it. You're on a gun forum and I've seen your other posts before.

I was just saying that I've only heard those arguments ("rare circumstance", "most likely wouldn't see it-[the threat]-coming", "what if it slides off your seat or you shoot your eye out?") from one place and it's not the from the 2A/Constitutionalist/Liberty side.

You can take that however you like, but the truth is that's the kind of argument they make against carrying a pistol period. So basically I was saying something to the effect of if you're going to go there why not go to the logical extreme and just not carry period?

That seemed to be what you were saying.

I do find it puzzling that you're bagging on me for downplaying the importance of preparing for vehicular warfare, yet you admittedly tote nothing more than a pocket gun, at least on a part-time basis. Could you please explain this logic to me? You've made the choice to be least prepared (as gun-carriers go) during the times where you're most likely - by a really largemargin - to have need of a firearm

That's because mostly I'm not carrying a pocket pistol (Walther PPS w/2 spare mags), that's only for a very narrow set of social circumstances. About 10% of the time.

Mostly I'm carrying a G26 with 2 spare mags and a couple more in the door of my truck. About 90% of the time.

Occasionally I'm going with a G23, but that's becoming less and less (10%).
---
Yes, I've taken a vehicle course...and basic defensive pistol and intermediate and advanced.
----
I'll just say that we disagree because I've had some life experience of growing up in some night so nice places where gangs were the norm and leave it at that.

Have a good one.

 

[psyopspec]

Why did the man get out and threaten you? Just a completely random occurrence? No tail-gating, road games, friendly fingers, or hard looks? Absolutely nothing you could have done to avoid the situation?
Also, if he was in front of you, what kept you from just running him over?
Finally, since we're discussing the use of guns in vehicles, how did your gun save your life that day?

The threatening followed an escalating series of exchanges on the road. I was not driving; the person I was with was an off-duty badge holder who saw someone nearly take out another car and attempted to intervene in the interest of what I'm sure he saw as public safety. He flashed his badge at the guy, thinking he'd scare him into not driving like an ass. It didn't work. The full story is somewhere in my post history.

While he was in front of us, his car was the sort with the door on the side. He got out of his car, starting walking from his drivers side door to the drivers side door of the car I was in. Got halfway there, stopped, went back to his car and went in the back seat for something. Came up with a tire iron and started stalking toward us again. The driver I was with was still yelling; my gun was under my seat and unloaded for reasons having to do wth visiting prohibited places. On seeing the tire iron, I grabbed my gun, loaded it and racked a round when the man was getting within striking distance. When the slide went home and I started coming up with it, he did a 180 and went back to his car. Light turned green, he sped off. We reported it, and it turned out the guy was wanted for beating his girlfriend and selling meth.

 

[Kleanbore]

Something came up in the news last week that may be worth sharing here.

Two criminals fleeing from police in a stolen car crashed. One escaped on foot. The police (Collinsville, IL, across from St Louis) said he has a long record and has fired upon officers in prior chases and is extremely dangerous and should be considered armed.

One officer on TV said that when he "comes out of the trees" he will be looking to take a car from someone.

Scary.

Likelihood of any one person being victimized? Remote.

How something might happen? Dunno.

Risk mitigation? Eyes open, don't stop for anything, gun handy....

My thoughts, anyway.

 

[azrocks]

The threatening followed an escalating series of exchanges on the road. I was not driving; the person I was with was an off-duty badge holder who saw someone nearly take out another car and attempted to intervene in the interest of what I'm sure he saw as public safety. He flashed his badge at the guy, thinking he'd scare him into not driving like an ass. It didn't work. The full story is somewhere in my post history.

While he was in front of us, his car was the sort with the door on the side. He got out of his car, starting walking from his drivers side door to the drivers side door of the car I was in. Got halfway there, stopped, went back to his car and went in the back seat for something. Came up with a tire iron and started stalking toward us again. The driver I was with was still yelling; my gun was under my seat and unloaded for reasons having to do wth visiting prohibited places. On seeing the tire iron, I grabbed my gun, loaded it and racked a round when the man was getting within striking distance. When the slide went home and I started coming up with it, he did a 180 and went back to his car. Light turned green, he sped off. We reported it, and it turned out the guy was wanted for beating his girlfriend and selling meth.

No offense intended, but your off-duty badge-holding buddy apparently made a series of poor decisions that put you both in unnecessary danger.

I said earlier that I believe one of the most effective ways to prevent becoming a victim of crime is to avoid associating with criminals. Your story reminds me that avoiding associating with morons is also important.

I really don't mean to be so critical. But your tale speaks to the general message I'm trying to convey here, which is: The most effective measures you can take to avoid being the victim crime on the roadways (or anywhere else for that matter) have absolutely nothing to do with a gun. And IMO, your primary goal as a gun-carrier should be never to have to use it.

The situation you were put in was entirely avoidable, and the cop (I'm assuming) should have darned-well known better.

 

[psyopspec]

No offense intended, but your off-duty badge-holding buddy apparently made a series of poor decisions that put you both in unnecessary danger.

I said earlier that I believe one of the most effective ways to prevent becoming a victim of crime is to avoid associating with criminals. Your story reminds me that avoiding associating with morons is also important.

I really don't mean to be so critical. But your tale speaks to the general message I'm trying to convey here, which is: The most effective measures you can take to avoid being the victim crime on the roadways (or anywhere else for that matter) have absolutely nothing to do with a gun. And IMO, your primary goal as a gun-carrier should be never to have to use it.

The situation you were put in was entirely avoidable, and the cop (I'm assuming) should have darned-well known better.

No worries, I'm not the sort to take offense over actions that were not my own for something that happened a few presidential terms ago.

 

[jmf552]

I carry a lightweight snubby in my pocket. I also have a holster for a snubby velcro'ed inside my center console. I can get to it very quickly. I either !) take my pocket snubby out and put it in the console holster while I'm driving or 2) leave my pocket snubby in my pocket and have a second snubby in that holster.

I also have a fixed blade knife friction fit in the mechanism under my seat and a "tire knocker" next to my seat. The tire knocker is a 2" x 2' ironwood dowel, which is as hard and heavy as a police nightstick.

 

[Kleanbore]

I carry a lightweight snubby in my pocket. I also have a holster for a snubby velcro'ed inside my center console. I can get to it very quickly. I either !) take my pocket snubby out and put it in the console holster while I'm driving or 2) leave my pocket snubby in my pocket and have a second snubby in that holster.

Could you access or deploy either one if a miscreant were to pop into your car while you were in it?

 

[jmf552]

As someone said earlier on this thread or the other one, if you are fighting with a BG in your car, you've already screwed up. My electronic car door opener only opens the driver's door, unless I double-click it, so I'm not sure how a BG could just "pop" into my car.

But you ask a thought-provoking question, so let's say it did happen somehow. My first thought is that if someone is "popping in" I will be "popping out." Then I will draw the pocket gun and deal with the situation from outside the car. Not because I am defending my property, but because I am still under deadly threat.

But let's take the hypothetical a step further and say I can't do that. It would depend on how fast the guy "popped in," what he is armed with, what situation my car is in and what he is demanding I do. If the car is running and in gear, if someone tries to pop in, I am going to abruptly move the car as he does, even if I am boxed in. It would not take much sudden movement as he was getting in to stun him until I can draw. If the guy is in my car with the drop on me before I can react, I don't think there is any mode I could be carrying my gun where I could beat his drop with a draw in those close quarters.

• If he wants me to drive him somewhere, I would have to play it cool and wait for an opportunity. If I could get him distracted and then deflect his gun hand temporarily, I could draw my console gun very quickly and the snubby is great a close quarters. Then there is also my hidden knife for an overhand grip, sudden stab to the throat.
• Worst case, if he has me driving somewhere, I'll run the car into something and set off the airbags. I have taken an airbag in the face before. I know what to expect. It is incredibly disorienting the first time, especially when you don't expect it. I could still get to my console gun in an airbag deployment and I would have him shot five times, at least one in the head, before he gets over his disorientation..

Of course, all that is what I have thought through in advance that I would plan to do. It all depends on the situation and none of us know for sure how well we will perform in a given scenario and just as importantly, how the BG will perform. It's a bad situation. There are no easy answers.

 

[Kleanbore]

As someone said earlier on this thread or the other one, if you are fighting with a BG in your car, you've already screwed up. My electronic car door opener only opens the driver's door, unless I double-click it, so I'm not sure how a BG could just "pop" into my car.

Simply by entering unexpectedly just as you have let someone out. It has happened.

My first thought is that if someone is "popping in" I will be "popping out."

Neat trick if you can do that a unharmed from a strapped-in position. And just a tad risky.

Then I will draw the pocket gun and deal with the situation from outside the car. Not because I am defending my property, but because I am still under deadly threat.

Castle laws, where they apply to a conveyance, address an occupied conveyance. If one has been able to get out, justifying deadly force would be iffy--at best. Better t get away, if you can, and if he has gun in hand, probably much safer.

But let's take the hypothetical a step further and say I can't do that. It would depend on how fast the guy "popped in," what he is armed with, what situation my car is in and what he is demanding I do. If the car is running and in gear, if someone tries to pop in, I am going to abruptly move the car as he does, even if I am boxed in. It would not take much sudden movement as he was getting in to stun him until I can draw.

• If he wants me to drive him somewhere, I would have to play it cool and wait for an opportunity. If I could get him distracted and then deflect his gun hand temporarily, I could draw my console gun very quickly and the snubby is great a close quarters. Then there is also my hidden knife for an overhand grip, sudden stab to the throat.
• Worst case, if he has me driving somewhere, I'll run the car into something and set off the airbags. I have taken an airbag in the face before. I know what to expect. It is incredibly disorienting the first time, especially when you don't expect it. I could still get to my console gun in an airbag deployment and I would have him shot five times, at least one in the head, before he gets over his disorientation.

At that point, you have been carjacked! Accessing a gun in the console would work only if he did not gain control of your arm. Depending on his "disorientation" would seem to me to be something like trying to fill an inside straight.

If the guy is in my car with the drop on me before I can react, I don't think there is any mode I could be carrying my gun where I could beat his drop with a draw in those close quarters.

Your ability to get to a gun in your left-hand jacket or vest pocket while he is looking ahead would be a much better bet than trying to use the arm toward him while he knows that something is up.

 

[jmf552]

Klenbore: All good points.

I don't think Castle applies here either. But as long as he has a gun, threatening me, I can use deadly force. For all I know, he could decide to eliminate the witness before he drives off. At that range, I am confident mine will be the only story that goes on record.

I don't always wear a jacket and when I do, I usually don't put a gun in it. I am too worried I will have to take it off somewhere I'm going and then it's off-body, or I will have to find a way to transfer it to my pocket, which might be awkward. But you do have me thinking that a better place for my car snubby is somewhere on the left side of my seat, not in the console. It would be much easier

Still, overthinking a hypothetical is of marginal value. There are so many variables. One has to react to the situation. In my 25 years of martial arts training, the instructor I had that I was the most impressed with was a guy with a lot of real world experience. He had a saying, "Your mental approach to a fight should always be: I know nothing...but I have ideas!"

 

[Kleanbore]

But as long as he has a gun, threatening me, I can use deadly force.

Well, it you can show at least some evidence that he had been threatening you with that gun, and that your use of deadly force had (still) been immediately necessary, your actions may well be deemed justified by those who will decide.

But should he have gun in hand and should he be watching you as you exit, he would undoubtedly see you draw the pocket gun. And it may be he who will "deal with the situation".

When I do not have to wear a jacket, I find a vest to be a much better solution.

 

[No Quarter]

My preferred concealed carry mode is pocket carry, with a good pocket holster. Realistically, when seat-belted into the driver's seat, that gun is essentially not accessible. I've been testing an approach that I can use in most modern sedans, and does not require a car-seat holster or storage box. It does require remembering a few steps each time I enter and exit the car.
As I get seated in the vehicle, I move the gun still kept in the holster into the storage pocket on the back of the front passenger seat. In that pocket the gun is completely concealed; as long as the passenger seat is positioned a bit forward relative to my driver's seat, I can easily reach the gun and draw it from that position while still belted in.
Added aspects:
1. I have to get into a new habit sequence of moving the gun back and forth on each use of the vehicle- a slight negative.
2. By moving the holster and gun together, I am never openly handling the gun in the vehicle, as I would need to do if moving it between my pocket and a car-seat holster or box - a positive.
3. I cannot always conceal this process from passengers, so they will know that I am carrying - a possible negative.

Thoughts and comments?
Please note that added investments of a second car gun with storage solution are for a different discussion. Looking for comments on this particular in-car solution.

I wear a .38 revolver in an ankle holster to solve this problem. Accessible, concealed and the right type of weapon for fumble free engagement at extreme close quarters. I also don't have to worry about moving firearms on and off body, accidentally forgetting them in the car or, even more important, in the event that an immediate exit from the vehicle is necessary, I am always fully armed.

I spend a lot of time driving and also sitting in board rooms, desks, etc. I have found no better fast option than a good snubby in an ankle holster for being in a seated position. I have another firearm either under my suit coat or in a pocket holster, but always one on my ankle.