Pocket Pistols - 380+

[HowardCohodas]

JMOfartO:

This should generate some negative incoming, but here's my senior citizen's opinion on the question.

Although I do not hold the same opinions you listed, I thank you heartily for the courtesy of explaining your reasoning. In explaining yourself you help those of us who may disagree to reevaluate our premises and perhaps come to different conclusions. My strongly held opinions are a work in progress and I have changed my position based on posters like you who take the time to provide analysis.

Thank you.

 

[jocko]

px15

I cannot disagree with one thing px15 said though. I have lived 65 years by avoiding situations where trouble "could" be. I would never hesitate to defend my family with a handgun if my family was present in the situation but if alone by myself, I will use damn near any other option to avoid pulling my handgun. I just don't think the BG wants any part of anyone who has a gun. there are just to many other easy preys out there to chance it.

I owned a gun business for 40 years and was robbed by gun point twice. Once with a shotgun, the other with a handgun, Neither time did I try to be John Wayne or Clint Eastwood. BUT I am hear telling you about it, so IMO, I did the right thing. My family did not want a dead hero picture on their wall. they wanted there dad home every nite. Arm yourself to the hilt if need be but good ol COMMON SENSE is better than 6 in the magazine.

I have read a ton of gun scenarios by various posters on other forums also, and when a shotgun is pointed at your head, all those scenarios are just that scenarios and that 38 or 45 under the cash register drawer now doesn't seem like the right thing to try. Your life goes through your eyes in a split second...

you know they say when u die, ur bowels just release everything, well I guess I thought I had died twice in those holdups for I was a very smelley person after that.

 

[polizei36]

Jocko,

You bring up an excellent point that I have been thinking about for so time.

I always wondered that. If I was caught by surprise and a pistol or shotgun were held to my head in a robbery attempt what would I do? I always thought “what can you really do at that moment but cooperate?”

IMO you were correct NOT to be the hero in that situation, and I bet your family is grateful for your actions.

 

[Mountie855]

Lots of good points made in this thread, and I, too, am a believer in the biggest gun I can carry. That translates usually to a 357 or 44Mag, in the woods.

But, no longer in LE, and running businesses, wife and I need to be discreet in how we carry in our daily activities.

Thus, I mostly carry J frames or a small Kahr 9mm, or occasionally a KT P11. In those instances where nothing else is practical, I will carry a P3AT.

Except for woods walks, or walking our dog in our predator-infested area, my wife carries a P3AT, especially in her business. In the outdoors, she packs a 2.5" S&W 66 or 340 w/357 158gr JSP.

The 380 (and 32) ACP do fill a specific need for those who choose to carry a
gun.

 

[OleCodger]

PX15, IMO you hit the nail squarely on the head.......good job...... extremely well said! I have a Sig P220 .45 caliber in my night stand, a Kahr CW45 in my pickup truck console, and a Ruger LCP in my pocket holster. I even carry the CW45 during our cooler months but the LCP .380 is a part of my daily dress code. If I'm wearing pants, I'm wearing the LCP. I know it's there if I ever should need it. I've looked at the ammo that it's fed very closely more than once and I always come up with the same conclusion.......I CERTAINLY DON'T WANT TO BE ON THE RECEIVING END OF THE .380. I wish that it had the firepower of the .45's but until that happens, it's my daily carry and I feel comfortable that it will perform if the need arises. But my prayer is that all any of my pistols will ever have to be used for is in attempting to wipe out that elusive "X" at the range!

 

[Reopropf]

Jesse's post is EXCELLENT. Thank-you sir for your thoughtful post.

It is the reason I NOW carry a Ruger LCP similarly.

Dr. Peter

 

[Newton]

I can pocket carry my LCP.

Everything else needs to be carried on the hip, and that's just too much of a pain - tried it with different guns, different holsters, and it's still a pain.

So my choice for carry is a .380 or zilcho, so it's .380. I can grab and I can go. No dropping my pants while juggling with an IWB holster and a belt that could restrain Godzilla.

I load mine with seven rounds of Santa Barbara open tip FMJ, and I know that they will drill a hole through anything with bad breath and meth teeth.

If I can't hurt you, or hit you with 7 of those "hole right through you" rounds, then I'm in big trouble.

It's plenty for me.

 

[saturno_v]

While the .380 is an adequate cartridge in an emergency at short distances, why limit yourself to that chambering when nowdays there are several good value for the money choices in 9 mm?? (Kel-Tec for example).
You can pocket a P-11 practically as easily as any small .380 out there, and it is +P rated. The purchasing cost is almost the same but you have a 12 rounders double stack powerhouse in your pocket.
Furthermore, on average, 9 mm ammo is even cheaper than the .380 and there is more variety.

If you have problem controlling the recoil of a small 9 mm is another problem, then you may find the .380 more comfortable.

 

[camsdaddy]

As for thugs not wanting to get shot. A long time ago I was in Summer school. There was a fight planned between two different counties there had been bad blood the whole time we were there and I guess they decided to settle it. There was weapons everywhere in every car and truck bats, chains shotguns tec 9's etc. As the fight started physically hand to hand you heard one shot from what sounded like a 22 or 25 at that time everyone who was so big and bad scattered like a covey of quail not wanting to shot. At that time they didnt want to fight or settle anything it took the fight right out of them. I was off in the distance and remember thinking wow. Anyway I was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I did learn that no one wants to get shot. I carry a Keltec P32 everyday in my pocket I know that here locally those same guys that were in that parking lot one day are probably the same ones that would rob someone today and I know they are trained to run. Actually I feel pretty safe in my little town and for my day to day living staying alert and my hand on my P32 I feel just fine.

 

[MP5]

A .380 in the chest has much better odds of stopping a bad guy than a .45 in the wall. Everyone has to take into account what they can shoot accurately and will be willing to carry.

One more thing to consider along those lines: you're responsible for every bullet that comes out of your gun, so it's doubly important that you hit the target with whatever you're carrying. It's not just that you might miss the bad guy, it's that you might miss him and kill a little kid down the street in the process.

 

[420Stainless]

I carried a .380 for most of the last 15 years and have great confidence in the round (although no actual experience shooting someone with it). I recently moved to a polymer .45 ACP that, when loaded, weighs the same as my PPK. There are more powerful choices that may be pocket carried these days if you can handle the recoil, but I don't think the .380 in at all inadequate.

 

[76shuvlinoff]

not wanting to get shot is right

Dude was asking allegedly asking directions and it was all a understanding but I had a .38 revolver leveled at me up close (like less than 2 feet) from a car window once. I was maybe 20 years old. I think I then said something to the guy about my friends eyeballing his license plate, he stood down and drove away. I don't remember if I was really that cool headed or stuttering and slobbering like a virgin on prom night but I do know if I'd been sober I would've soiled myself.

Rule #1 do not put yourself in that situation.
Rule #2 have a valid back-up plan better than a pocket full of lint.

 

[Loosedhorse]

I know that there are better "controlled expansion" bullets these days for .380 that should end the FMJ vs HP debate (but it never dies).

Speaking completely unscientifically, I always envision a big dog (doberman, shepard--whatever scares you) running at me; in fact, that's a much more realistic risk scenario than a human attack around my town.

So, here comes Fluffy, the monster-dog--how's that .380 feeling? If you would modify your carry gun AT ALL after being extracted from Fluffy's teeth, then maybe do it now, while your hide is still whole?

There is a reason for the rule: "Carry the most powerful gun you can shoot well and conceal."

(In all honesty, I've carried a .32 ACP as my only carry gun. But only when I'm wearing pajamas )

 

[Ringtail]

Even though this subject has been beat to death, I would like to add my.02.

I agree that any gun is better than no gun (refrence the 1st rule of gunfighting) and that even a .22 will kill. However, as Jeff Cooper said, the object of armed self defence is not killing the bad guy but stopping him. Yes he may die of a .22 gunshot wound but in the time it takes for that to happen what damage may he inflict on you?

There was a story in the local newspaper a while back about two guys in a bar fight. Drunk #1 was admitted to the hospital in fair condition with bruses, cuts and broken bones. Drunk #2 was treated and released with a .32 gunshot wound to the head.

 

[PRM]

New One

With respect to the lethality of a .22, there is a tremendous difference depending on whether you are on offense or on defense and whether you contemplate surviving the encounter. HowardCohodas

Never saw this angle before??? User "intent" impacts how well a round works.

 

[Tirod]

I see many who don't accept the .380 as adequate coming from the LE side, or already in the big bore camp. It's a point of view where controlling the risk is important because it is a probable event - armed conflict is part and parcel of what may be in their life. Officers who don't ever pull their firearm in their career are still out there, but the attitude is that it will happen, not might.

Balancing the odds, recommending what they know to be a responsible choice, and dealing with increased risk is certainly ok. It is not what most suburban or small town citizens encounter in their lifetimes - because they don't go there. Their risk avoidance measures are in where they live, do business, and lifestyle, not something a policeman has much say about. He/she signed up for the risk, civilians live their lives staying away from it.

When you march TO the sound of gunfire, you will assess your firearms choices much differently than those who act just as responsibly by getting the heck out of there.

So, choose caliber by what risk you are assessing - neighborhood, job type, working hours, etc. Crikey, if I was big city LE, I'd probably want to carry an MP5. But as a working guy on late shift, traveling rural to get home, living in a small town with almost no crime, a smaller caliber will do for everyday carry.

It doesn't make the big bore wrong at all. I'm glad it's out there to serve. With the latest compact 9's and .45's coming out, it's all good to be able to carry bigger when I can afford it. But it's not mandatory for everybody.

There really is no argument about caliber, just perceptions about risk.

 

[KodeFore]

I pocket carried S&W .380 for years and felt safe with it, but a while back I witnessed surveillance footage of some one getting shot in the foot at close range and they walked away from and even tried to deny they even been shot shot when they were picked up. Probably hit with standard ball ammo I'd guess.

I have a Bersa thunder .380 ( I considered selling it after that, but like the design too much ) I almost never shoot it because the ammo cost is the same or more than 9mm or 38 spec.

Federal makes some defensive .380 that might do good, but seems to me these days you can find 9mms just as small for the same price, 380 is better than nothing, but I think there are better choices these days

 

[jinksnyou]

PX15 you hit the nail on the head.
Good Job !

 

[Xzyl]

Speaking completely unscientifically, I always envision a big dog (doberman, shepard--whatever scares you) running at me; in fact, that's a much more realistic risk scenario than a human attack around my town.

So, here comes Fluffy, the monster-dog--how's that .380 feeling? If you would modify your carry gun AT ALL after being extracted from Fluffy's teeth, then maybe do it now, while your hide is still whole?

I had a friend who three rottweilers. They were well trained and well taken care of. They were a great team, two of them were brother and sister. Whenever someone arrived at the house, it was literally out in the middle of nowhere, the little one would be under the tree near the front door. She would just stand there and pant trying do her best impression of "I just a cute puppy" while the brother and sister would sneak up behind them. I took great pride in being the only person who did not live in that house that could get to the front door.

All was fine for may years until one day the male went mad and killed its sister. If this was not unnerving enough it immediately afterwards began looking oddly at my friend's mom. It took three shots from his dad's .45 to kill it.

Now at the other end of the spectrum a few years latter he took in a skinny stray mutt that had a .22 in it that it seemed totally oblivious of.

No moral, just a pair of anecdotes, and yes I would own a rot.