Police department closes because of "weapons cache"

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JesusCow

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I got this story online from my local newspaper. Today, there was a picture of some guy holding an M4 rifle with some shotguns in the background. From what I've read that was the only rifle they had, and some people are freaking out about it.

Not mentioned in this article is that their PD alledgedly spent $5000 on 8 Glocks, 4-6 12GA shotguns and one M4. This was mentioned in a way making it seem like a bad idea. Also pointed out in the printed article was that they had the M4 because it could launch tear-gas, which was never used. The $5000 figured was denied by the former cheif, saying they spent $2400.

Anyways, kinda interesting read. I've boldened the most interesting parts. :)

Bartlett fires its last 2 police officers
New mayor says department had weapons cache


By Camille Wheeler and Sarah Coppola
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Wednesday, June 9, 2004

In the latest high drama to hit the tiny, troubled town of Bartlett, the City Council fired the two remaining members of its Police Department on Monday night, and Mayor Bobby Hill criticized the force for storing what he described as a cache of high-powered weapons in its building.
The city has asked the Williamson and Bell county sheriff's departments to provide law enforcement protection until new officers are hired, Hill said. Bartlett straddles the county line, with about two-thirds of its 1,500 residents living in Williamson.

"They had their own little world over there," Hill said of the Police Department. "They had their firearms and six or seven shotguns, machine guns and ammunition cabinets.
"You'd think we were getting ready for an Iraqi attack in Bartlett."

One of the fired officers said Tuesday night that he would not comment until he speaks to a lawyer. The other fired officer and former Police Chief Robert Franklin, who resigned two weeks ago, could not be reached for comment.
Former Mayor Janice Atchison's only comment on the alleged weapons stash was, "I don't know of anything like that." Atchison hired Franklin in February 2002.

Her allegiance to Franklin may have been a factor in her lopsided loss last month to Hill, a former mayor who faced questions about his 2003 drunken driving arrest and subsequent probation and an unpaid traffic fine.
There was more furor on election night when Atchison asked Franklin to move a ballot box from City Hall to the Police Department. State officials looked into the incident but did not file charges.

In the past two years, some residents have accused Atchison and Franklin of spending too much city money on the department and not enough on street and water needs. The residents called their own public forums, where they complained that the department, which at one time had five full-time officers, was too large, harassed minority drivers and brought drug-sniffing dogs into bars in a predominantly African American neighborhood.

Franklin and Atchison have vehemently denied the allegations.
Two weeks ago -- just days after Hill took office -- Franklin resigned as chief.
"He didn't feel he was going to be happy with the administration," Hill said. "We hadn't given him any directions to make him think that."

Hill said he called Monday's special council meeting to discuss the future of the last two police officers -- acting Police Chief Dean Rebel and officer Meri Burger -- and Utility Director Bruce Sorenson. After meeting in closed session, the four-member council voted in public to fire all three employees. As mayor, Hill votes only to break a tie. Sorenson, who has been the utility director for seven months, said Hill had assured him in the past few weeks that he would not lose his job. He said that when the council went into executive session, he and the two police officers asked for a public hearing on their job performance. The council denied that request, Sorenson said.

If true, that decision may have violated the state's open meeting laws.
"The executive session is for the protection of the employees, so if those employees want it in public, it should be done in public," said Assistant County Attorney Dale Rye, who has not reviewed this specific case.

When the council came back and fired all three, a group of citizens stood up and cheered, Sorenson said. The two officers had been worried that they might be fired, he said, but "I was like, 'Whoa, where did that come from?' They gave us no reasons why they terminated us."

Reached by phone, Rebel said he would not comment until he has talked to his lawyer.

Several council members also declined to comment Tuesday, though Hill tried to explain their reasoning.

"The new council was wanting to make a change . . . one (to) a department that was laid-back and not one with machine guns," Hill said. "They're not happy with their performance.

"The people who live here want a little slower-paced Police Department; it's as simple as that," he said. "It's an economic move as well as anything else."
Tuesday afternoon, a recorded message on the Police Department cell phone said the mayor had disbanded the department.
Hill insisted that wasn't accurate.

" 'We are reorganizing the Police Department' would be a more intelligent way to say that," he said.
 
Ummm, that's bizarre...

I mean, I'm all for ending the militarization of civilian police but come on. An M-4, some shotguns and their sidearms...!?!?! Yeesh.
 
That is only 15 guns. Most people I know have more then that... Somthing else is going on here and the guns are just being used as an issue.

Bill
 
Okay, everyone has lost their minds.

From reading that, I am disturbed that you would fire police officers for maintaining a well armed division. Maybe there was some tension about money, but as someone said, that wasn't that much of a "cache".
The true agenda seems woven in with the alleged complaints of drug sniffing dogs and the other. I am amazed the city of Oakland California still can arrest someone...

I think the citizens are nuts if they allow this. Sounds like they are.

Friggin ridiculous...
 
I t just baffels me

what some people call a "cache off weapons" I hope a reporter never gets wind of what I have in my gun safes and ammo lockers. And I have a modest collection compared to a lot of guys I know, 15 guns, that would just about account for my 1911's


shees
 
I'm better armed than they were. :rolleyes:

Even a marginally equipped police force should at least have an assault rifle(neutered if select fire is too unpalatable) and a shotgun for every patrol vehicle and station. Every officer should have at least two pistols(one concealable). So if they had five officers, that's at least 20 guns assuming four patrol vehicles and one office.

Of course, the ammo and training budget should be substantial as well.
 
I'm glad this happened. I feel sorry for the officers, but hopefully more of this crap will happen. Then maybe the LEO's out there will start getting it in their head that "hey maybe I should support the civilian's RKBA rights, as they are starting to come after my guns". Hopefully this "us versus them mentality will stop soon".
 
I have been through this sort of political posturing. When I firt became a deputy marshal the office had 0 handguns, no shotguns and a Thompson FA SMG. The town marshal bought Colt Troopers for each officer and Ithaca Roadblocker shotguns for each prowl car. The town council voted the marshal out of existence. They felt a police department would be more accountable. 24/7/365 patrols ended. There was only one patrol car. The only person who would be police chief was a plumber who couldn't plumb. The citizens lose.
 
"Machineguns"?

I thought that most police ARs were semi-auto. No?

The one in question wasn't an AR. It was an M4 (manufacturer not mentioned). It was also captioned as $900 (and FA) in the newspaper picture.

At the department I work at, the only AR type weapons are Bushmasters and are civilian models. Bought and owned individually by each officer. These rifles never stay here at the office. In fact, I don't know any that carry them in their cars on patrol. Maybe out on the lake. But, I haven't asked. :D They are, in fact, carry weapons once they've qualified.
 
Yes, but Hadleyville was bigger. :)

In 1990 the population of Bartlett Texas was 1,439.

Did they really need 1 new gun for every 10 residents?

JT
 
Then maybe the LEO's out there will start getting it in their head that "hey maybe I should support the civilian's RKBA rights, as they are starting to come after my guns". Hopefully this "us versus them mentality will stop soon".

You've been listening to the national FOP too long. Polls of law enforcement have shown that the GREAT majority favor gun rights for law abiding citizens. I believe it was 68% that favored right to carry laws. They felt, rightly so, that armed citizens are an excellent source of backup and that each person should have the right to defend themselves before the police arrive.
 
A number of years ago some time after the big shootout in CA where that pair of gunmen robbed a bank and completely outgunned the LAPD, the City of Tumwater, WA authorized the Police Department to purchase a number of AR-15's to keep in the police cars. The city did not have a SWAT type team and there really hasn't been any sort of crimes that would require a response. Other cities, the county and the WA State Patrol coud respond as necessary and help out.

Of course the liberals got their panties all wadded up and threw a hissy fit about creating a police state and having so much firepower for absolutely no reason. After awhile, all the commotion went away and nobody now knows or may even care that the PD has the capability to thwart a BG intent on killing people or doing somthing where he may not care whose life is taken as he commits a crime.

There are those who sleep a little bit better knowing that the streets are safer because a police department had the foresight to do what is necessary to protect the citizenry.

Sounds like the city fathers of Bartlett needs to wake up to the fact that a disarmed police department is not going to be in a position to protect the people they serve.
 
Hill, a former mayor who faced questions about his 2003 drunken driving arrest and subsequent probation
This is what it's come to drunken mayors and unarmed cops?

A quetion for LEOs
If the sheriffs dept takes over they charge the town for the service right?

Would a street cop have the right to refuse that particular beat or would it just be assigned?
 
I attended the police academy about four years ago. One of the officers who was in my class was from a small town up north. He was the one and only officer and was consequnetly the chief of police. Not being into guns he didn't find it strange that the department had a couple of rifles (lever actions and bolt actions) and a shotgun but no handguns. He actually brought a Hi-Point with him - which he borrowed from his in-laws. Well the academy informed him that he needed to get a better gun. He also needed body armor and leather gear.

But, believe it or not,his city wouldn't buy the equipment so the sheriff provided him with leather gear, a handgun (Sig 220) and body armor. The sheriff then had the prosecutor explain all about liability to the mayor. The city council decided that they could come up with the money after all. All they did was pay the sheriff department for the equipment that it had provided. But better then nothing. Most Americans don't realize that many police departments in our country are woefully underfunded and poorly equipped.
 
IIRC the Andy Griffith show in Mabary dang near had as many guns. The gun rach had 4 shotguns and a pair of rifles. Barney had his pistol (and one bullet) and they had two spare pistols at least. (city event he gave two others handguns) PLUS they had a cannon (used in one show against a car) AND during the jail brake a thompson machine gun (Ok that one was Xmas bulbs being dropped off room of Sheriff's dept but Criminals thought it was machine gun.
 
That sounds like some of the stuff that happened before ATF started to take more interest in auto weapons purchase by police departments. What would happen was that some "good ol' boys" would get appointed as police officers so they could get machineguns to play with. One "department" (I won't name the state) of five officers had 37 full auto weapons, including a .30 M1919, plus hundreds of handguns, all bought at police prices. When an officer quit, which (surprise!) was frequent, he "bought" auto weapons from the department (prior to 1986, this was legal), and the department bought some more for the next guy.

I think most had been bought with personal money, but at least some went on the budget. After a few disclosures like that, ATF began to scrutinize police purchases and that sort of thing pretty much stopped.

Jim
 
Does anyone have any information as to the racial breakdown of the town and the Council? It sounds to me as if this might have been a "white PD vs. black citizens" problem - or, at least, that that might have been a contributing factor. For example:
The residents called their own public forums, where they complained that the department, which at one time had five full-time officers, was too large, harassed minority drivers and brought drug-sniffing dogs into bars in a predominantly African American neighborhood.
I'd be interested to know the racial makeup of the Council before and after the elections, too...
 
Andy & Barney had more weapons than that back in Mayberry. :rolleyes:

Sounds like the mayor and city commission need to be fired for their lack of supervision of the city's budget and lack of supervision of their police department's budget, personnel, inventory, citizens complaints and overall effectiveness.
 
Yes, but Hadleyville was bigger.

In 1990 the population of Bartlett Texas was 1,439.

Did they really need 1 new gun for every 10 residents?

JT
This is Texas we're talking about - isn't the ratio of the ownership of guns more like 10 guns for every resident?
 
:uhoh:

That's what small-town politics look like.

Chances are the guys who got kicked out had arrested the son of the most popular bar owner in town, or something equally heinous.

pax

I spent a year in that town, one Sunday. -- Warwick Deeping
 
It's one gun per 100 people, not 1 for every 10. And they were a bit crazy with the purchase. With a old time high of 5 officers, currently 2, I'd say the most you could get away with would be 5 handguns, 2 shotties, and the M4. I wonder if the purchase was arranged before the earlier draw-down? Were they planning on spares? I don't see more shotties than troopers for example, especially for new purchases. Maybe a couple more handguns, but that's about all I can see. End of year clean out the budget purchase?


I think that 'more laid back' means that they aren't to be a bunch of pricks, out harrasing people and writing traffic tickets just because there are so many of them. Five officers is one per three hundred residents. That's almost European in numbers.

For a normal town that small, especially with another department just next door, five officers would have too much time on their hands. I would consider just contracting the law enforcement next door. That's how they handle it in a number of the small towns around my grandparents in NY(state).
 
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