Police officers sue because Glocks are too big for them

Status
Not open for further replies.

Yoda

Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
615
Location
Florida, bouncing between Hurlburt Fld and MacDill
Last edited:
Just to clarify they did not sue Glock rather their police department for sexual discrimination, the fit of the issued gun being one part of it.
 
They will lose, and then they will be on the departments <deleted> list. All the department will have to do is find a small statured department like those in Asia or SE Asia that are using the same Glock, with no problems. How many SMALLER female officers here in the US are successfully using Glocks? I think these two are not trying hard enough. Also, how much easier can a police weapon be to shoot effectively than a medium frame, 9mm Glock. Compare that to a DA auto or revolver.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Read the whole story. There was more to it than just the guns being too big for their hands. From everything I've ever read about lawsuits in England, it's not terribly hard to win them for stuff we do everyday here in America and don't think twice about. So the standard for winning one is a lot less rigid than what you might find in most American courts.

Taking that into account, if we believe the face of the accusations that when the women asked for guns other than Glock 17s and were ignored, I would have a problem with that. If you go to Seminole or Orange county here in Florida you will find female officers carrying a variety of handguns from Sigs, to Glocks, to Berettas, to even the rare Springfield XD (only seen it twice and I'm in courthouses a few times a month).

Being denied the chance to professionally compete with others in a department because a department refuses to even entertain the issuance of another firearm without great additional expense is a problem to me. I get that it's England, where as here in America, some departments will let you qualify with one of your personal firearms if you provide it and get an ok from the power that be. In England modern handguns are harder to get than it was in Nazi Germany. So the women didn't have a chance to elect their own handguns to qualify with.

Also I don't know how the police officer training bit works over in England. A buddy of mine did the Police Academy here in Florida and there were the choices of an Glock 17, Glock 19, Beretta 92 (M9), or Sig 229 for qualification and training as he told me. He ended going back to college though so who knows if that was the truth.
 
As more women and men of smaller stature become police officers it's become more of an issue. Many police departments place FAR more value on uniformity than utility. When I was a rookie you had a choice, Carry the issued gun or find another job. It isn't much better now. My old department still mandates that ONLY the department issued weapon be carried on duty though they now also issue the "so called" compact version, which isn't really any smaller just a bit shorter.
 
As more women and men of smaller stature become police officers it's become more of an issue. Many police departments place FAR more value on uniformity than utility. When I was a rookie you had a choice, Carry the issued gun or find another job. It isn't much better now. My old department still mandates that ONLY the department issued weapon be carried on duty though they now also issue the "so called" compact version, which isn't really any smaller just a bit shorter.
Well if they aren't physically capable of using the basic equipment it might not be the job for them. Kind of like saying if you can't do pushups in the military they should accommodate you and find an exercise more suitable for your abilities. :D
 
If they cannot grab a Glock, how are they going to grab the wrist of a large man and put him in handcuffs? They might use the size of Glock to determine suitability for the job.
 
It seems they have already won the suit. If it had been a G20 or 21 I could see the point. Most anyone should be able to handle a G-17.
 
Look at some of the other suits mentioned in the article. One cop got several thousand pounds because he was bitten by fleas.
 
If they cannot grab a Glock, how are they going to grab the wrist of a large man and put him in handcuffs?

And if the guy resists and they miss, the situation could rapidly turn into a dead officer. One "reality show" following recruits through training showed a training officer taking his trainee to a monument. It was for an officer who was killed in a fight after he failed to cuff the criminal.
 
I am not a watch repairman because my big hands aren't good enough to handle the small internal pieces. This is why I didn't go to watch repair school. I understand my limitations.

These girls do not. They should have known moving up in the ranks they will be shooting a g17. If they cannot fit the g17 in their hands I understand making it a point they need smaller handguns. But if they get that request denied then they should have seen the writing on the wall.
 
A 10 year old girl can shoot a Glock effectively. I have seen a few shoot a .44 Magnum S&W effectively. If those female officers WON that suit, the plaintiff's attorneys were worthless.
 
This is new. Two petite police officers win a suit, in part, because the issue Glocks are too big for their hands. Seems there would have been many other guns that could have been issued to them, if their department had only been a bit more flexible.


Here's the link:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ficers-set-receive-35-000-guns-big-hands.html


- - - Yoda
Reminds me of the criticism of the M9 when it entered U.S. military service - grip too large for small hands. You can't please everyone all the time..
 
I have to wonder how much they enjoyed qualifying with those 12 ga. shotguns. With slugs.:scrutiny: To my way of thinking John Browning gave us the perfect size grip over a hundred years ago. And then again with the Hi Power. I guess it just wasn't "perfect" enough for some people.
 
Women aren't the only ones who think, yea know, that the Glock is not an ideal weapon for people with smaller hands.

I've handled and shot Glocks of most every caliber, from 17's, to 36's; and they have the most un-ergonomic grip ever. They are uniformly uncomfortable. I don't have very small hands, but I could handle the fat end of a baseball bat with better results than a Glock. Even the single-stacks in .45 caliber is no great shakes.

The problem is the double stack magazine, and the Beretta M9/92/96 series frame, among others, is no better. The trouble is the diameter of the grip frame. It just doesn't lend its self to smaller-than-average hands.

And some are forgetting the sticking point of the lawsuit. If the "field" isn't level, as to qualifying by females with small hands, that becomes sexually discriminatory. That's what the regulations and laws have become. It's also the result of rigid purchasing specs and political decisions, that don't allow for any wiggle room as to individual needs.

What would have been the result, had the women been issued a 1911, in 9mm? I doubt that the grip would have been an issue.

Until the 1980's when everyone had to go to semi-autos, police departments regularly issued revolvers - Everything from N-frame S&W's N's, K's, L's, J's; to Colt J's, I's, D's; to Rugers. Now, if a person could qualify with a Colt better than a Smith, what is the problem?

If the Glock doesn't fit, get something that does. The officers have to be confident that they can defend themselves, their fellow officers, and civilians.
 
Ryanxia said:
Well if they aren't physically capable of using the basic equipment it might not be the job for them. Kind of like saying if you can't do pushups in the military they should accommodate you and find an exercise more suitable for your abilities

Like your reasoning . Working with women cops, I know most are at a dreadful disadvantage in every way. Even at my advanced age,99% are going down very fast.

That is life on the femme blue line.
 
Well if they aren't physically capable of using the basic equipment it might not be the job for them. Kind of like saying if you can't do pushups in the military they should accommodate you and find an exercise more suitable for your abilities. :D
While in the philosophical realm, I agree with you. However, we're in the realm of "realville", and women in police work and the military are a fact of life, until something comes along to change things.

Women, for the most part, can't hump enough weight in hoses and victims, and yet, they've become firefighters. They can't hump enough full ammo cans, field gear, and wounded comrades, and they're going to be assigned to the battlefield in combat units. In the most basic of combat - hand-to-hand, women are at a disadvantage due to sheer lack of mass.

The military adopted the M9 Beretta, and the story was that the U.S. needed a replacement for the worn out 1911. But the facts were, in part, that women couldn't handle the recoil of the .45 ACP. But now they're issued a weapon that most of them can't handle with one hand. But again, that's the lay of the land.
 
"Women, for the most part, can't hump enough weight in hoses and victims, and yet, they've become firefighters. They can't hump enough full ammo cans, field gear, and wounded comrades, and they're going to be assigned to the battlefield in combat units. In the most basic of combat - hand-to-hand, women are at a disadvantage due to sheer lack of mass."

Until soldiers refuse to serve with those who do not or cannot meet certain MANDATORY minimum physical requirements, no change for the better will occur. I worked with a female police officer who got paid more than me, and who was calling a supervisor to ask if one of the "guys" would change a tire on her cruiser on a nasty winter night. That is a "no" in my book; equal work for "equal" pay. I felt guilty, or course, but equality being what it is, no quarter can be given. As pointed out, it goes way beyond being physically able to change a tire when life and lives are on the line.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top