Police stun 75-year-old woman
- Thread starter matt33
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I've said it before - I'd rather be Tased than beaten. Tasers are safer than physical countermeasures.
Most posters here seem to have a misconception that the Taser equals a high degree of force. It and OC are about as low as it gets, just above presence and verbalization.
Good " shoot" or bad? I dunno, I was'nt there nor do I have access to the investigative report. It could be either, but I've wrestled around with enough seniors to know that there are times when it would have been perfectly appropriate.
The home staff no doubt has the training and experience to handle older non-compliant folks. The fact that they had to call The Woman tells me that this was'nt run of the mill.
Most posters here seem to have a misconception that the Taser equals a high degree of force. It and OC are about as low as it gets, just above presence and verbalization.
Good " shoot" or bad? I dunno, I was'nt there nor do I have access to the investigative report. It could be either, but I've wrestled around with enough seniors to know that there are times when it would have been perfectly appropriate.
The home staff no doubt has the training and experience to handle older non-compliant folks. The fact that they had to call The Woman tells me that this was'nt run of the mill.
nero45acp
Member
Quote:
" The home staff no doubt has the training and experience to handle older non-complient folks. The fact that they had to call The Women tells me that this was'nt run of the mill."
It could very well be that the staff felt they would be opening themselves to an assault charge if they laid hands on the elderly women, especially if she was a visitor.
I'm an RN, and I've worked in the psychiatric field for about 14 years and I've had to deal with many elderly (though spry) dementia patients. In all that time I've never come across a situation where I would feel that it was necessary or justified to taser them. Nor have I had to injure them to restrain them, and yes there have been times where I had to do this unassisted and the elderly patient was considerably taller than myself (I'm 5'9"). A few quick steps, and a behind the back bear-hug (pinning their arms at their sides) will usually work until more assistance is available.
nero
" The home staff no doubt has the training and experience to handle older non-complient folks. The fact that they had to call The Women tells me that this was'nt run of the mill."
It could very well be that the staff felt they would be opening themselves to an assault charge if they laid hands on the elderly women, especially if she was a visitor.
I'm an RN, and I've worked in the psychiatric field for about 14 years and I've had to deal with many elderly (though spry) dementia patients. In all that time I've never come across a situation where I would feel that it was necessary or justified to taser them. Nor have I had to injure them to restrain them, and yes there have been times where I had to do this unassisted and the elderly patient was considerably taller than myself (I'm 5'9"). A few quick steps, and a behind the back bear-hug (pinning their arms at their sides) will usually work until more assistance is available.
nero
That's almost certainly true.
However, the mere fact that they felt the need to call the cops on a 75 year old woman says something. While possible, I find it unlikely that she was just peaceably sitting in an easy chair in their lobby. As always, there's more to the story.
BTW, each use of force continuum is different, but mine goes something like this:
Presence
Verbal Commands
Empty hands techniques (non-strikes)
Mace
Taser
Hard empty hands techniques (strikes)
Baton
Deadly force
So, if the officer was warranted in striking Grandma to get control of her, she was warranted in tasering her, under my UOFC. Mace and Taser are not at the same level, but they're close and the situation will determine which is warranted.
As I said before, every officer prays that situations like this one are resolved verbally. Otherwise, you just had a use of force on a 75 year old woman...and no one looks good in that situation.
Again- Good? Bad? I dunno. Off the cuff it sure looks awful, but I'll wait to see what the other side has to say. The questions become: was it necessary to press the issue (probably yes), and were all reasonable non-force options exhausted prior to getting into a physical confrontation (possibly no)?
Mike
The officer was trained to use a taser. Was she trained to deal with the elderly? No offense to the Peace Officers out there, but some LEO's seem to think they walk on water because they are wearing a badge and feel the need to assert their "authority" too forcefully.
Cop is talking to old woman, old woman, being old, gets distracted, thinks she sees someone and wanders towards them, cop reaches out and grabs an arm. Old woman jerks her arm away from the cop. Cop thinks, "She is fighting my authority!", pulls out her taser, and zaps the old woman in the back.
Cop is talking to old woman, old woman, being old, gets distracted, thinks she sees someone and wanders towards them, cop reaches out and grabs an arm. Old woman jerks her arm away from the cop. Cop thinks, "She is fighting my authority!", pulls out her taser, and zaps the old woman in the back.
Ezekiel
Member
Shield:
Already participating in "sardonic mode" with an us [cops] against them [brass and/or public] mentality? Is this most cops, just you, or have I misunderstood your reply?
But who's counting, right? This statement gives me chills...
Really? Not under any circumstances? Do you patrol Mayberry RFD?
Already participating in "sardonic mode" with an us [cops] against them [brass and/or public] mentality? Is this most cops, just you, or have I misunderstood your reply?
But who's counting, right? This statement gives me chills...
Really? Not under any circumstances? Do you patrol Mayberry RFD?
I actually consider tasing someone a lower level of force than OC because the effects wear off much quicker, there is less risk of collateral damage and there have more deaths occuring in which OC may have been a factor.
In the state I live in there is about an hours training in issues related to the elderly. Not a lot, but better than nothing.
Uh, Nero, cops do not do behind the back bearhugs. It'll get you either a backwards head butt or crushed cajones. Glad they work for you, but no thanks.
In the state I live in there is about an hours training in issues related to the elderly. Not a lot, but better than nothing.
Uh, Nero, cops do not do behind the back bearhugs. It'll get you either a backwards head butt or crushed cajones. Glad they work for you, but no thanks.
There have been more than a few cases where Tasers have killed, though suspect health, possible drug use, and other mitigating circumstances can come into play. There apparently have been at least 44 deaths at police hands with a Taser involved as at least a contributory factor, according to this article:
http://www.policeone.com/police-products/less-lethal/articles/85557/
Plus:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/12/earlyshow/main648859.shtml puts the total at 70 deaths
http://www.smartmoney.com/bn/ON/index.cfm?story=ON-20041011-000408-1246&nav=ibs
etc.
It's a little early to damn the Taser. You have to plot those suspected deaths against total usage and then compare it to other tools like OC. A number of those incidents also contain wild cards like drug usage and pre-existing medical conditions. While Taser use may correlate with some incustody deaths there needs to be more research done before it can be said that it alone caused those deaths and whether those deaths are statistically significant.
There is exactly one case where a coroner or medical examiner has determined a TASER to be at fault.
It's the last link you posted, and that determination is 10 days old, and will likely be contested.
Even in that case, the person who died was on drugs, and was fighting with the police.
It's the last link you posted, and that determination is 10 days old, and will likely be contested.
Even in that case, the person who died was on drugs, and was fighting with the police.
to Ezekiel.
The officer is never blameless, right or wrong.
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Already participating in "sardonic mode" with an us [cops] against them [brass and/or public] mentality? Is this most cops, just you, or have I misunderstood your reply?
My meaning was that you make your own dicitions and that if you make the right one or wrong one, that responsiblity lies only with you not a supervisor or policy book.
quote:
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I only have to have this job for 26 years till I retire.
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But who's counting, right? This statement gives me chills...
I have no idea why this would give you chills.. It was meant only to emphsize that my consince is forever my job is not. If doing the right thing means I lose that job so be it.
Does doing the right thing at personal cost give you chills?
quote:
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I cannot under any circumstances justify useing a Taser on a 75 year old woman.
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Really? Not under any circumstances? Do you patrol Mayberry RFD?
Right to the insults nice. No by the way its a Metropolitan area.
The officer is never blameless, right or wrong.
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Already participating in "sardonic mode" with an us [cops] against them [brass and/or public] mentality? Is this most cops, just you, or have I misunderstood your reply?
My meaning was that you make your own dicitions and that if you make the right one or wrong one, that responsiblity lies only with you not a supervisor or policy book.
quote:
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I only have to have this job for 26 years till I retire.
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But who's counting, right? This statement gives me chills...
I have no idea why this would give you chills.. It was meant only to emphsize that my consince is forever my job is not. If doing the right thing means I lose that job so be it.
Does doing the right thing at personal cost give you chills?
quote:
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I cannot under any circumstances justify useing a Taser on a 75 year old woman.
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Really? Not under any circumstances? Do you patrol Mayberry RFD?
Right to the insults nice. No by the way its a Metropolitan area.
Sodbuster
Member
Pardon my smugness, but my original post stands, Mike.
13A
Member
A soldier serving in Iraq posted on another forum that tasering an Iraqi prisoner is considered torture and is forbidden.
If it is true, why is it acceptable to taser 75 year old ladies in America?
If it is true, why is it acceptable to taser 75 year old ladies in America?
Because this is neither Iraq nor the military.
Y'all are buying into the mystique of the Taser, that it is some form of paralyzing death ray. In training and / or the street I have been joint-locked, pressure-pointed, hit, kicked, maced, OC'ed and hit with a stun gun. I am telling you that the taser is less "harmful" than any of the last 5. You fall down, hurt for a couple seconds then stand up and shake it off. Far less hazardous than active countermeasures.
I still dont know wether this was a good "shoot", but I'd rather read an article like this than hear of an officer who broke the lady's brittle arm with an escort hold, or knocked her down and broke her hip.
Y'all are buying into the mystique of the Taser, that it is some form of paralyzing death ray. In training and / or the street I have been joint-locked, pressure-pointed, hit, kicked, maced, OC'ed and hit with a stun gun. I am telling you that the taser is less "harmful" than any of the last 5. You fall down, hurt for a couple seconds then stand up and shake it off. Far less hazardous than active countermeasures.
I still dont know wether this was a good "shoot", but I'd rather read an article like this than hear of an officer who broke the lady's brittle arm with an escort hold, or knocked her down and broke her hip.
Sodbuster
Member
sendec, I agree with your last statement. But I would rather have read how the officer talked to the woman. Is there a deadline nowdays that prohibits LE from spending 10, 15, 30 minutes talking to someone? For the sake of argument, let's say the lady took a sing at the officer. She missed. My reaction? So what. Let's talk to her and get her calmed down. I can only wonder how some folks here would have faired before the advent of the Taser, or Mace as far as that goes. Gosh, left to their own devices and needing to communicate with a 75-year old. I think it's been done before.
I have an honest difference of opinion with some here. Don't miscontrue that as bashing. I'm as pro-LE as the next guy, and I appreciate the thanklessness of the job. My father is a retired sheriff and police chief. Though not the same job description as on the civilian side, I was a Marine MP and worked as a dispatcher, jailor and booking officer at a couple LE agencies in my younger says. I'm on your side. I just think this particular situation could have been handled differently. Sorry about the smugness, Mike.
I have an honest difference of opinion with some here. Don't miscontrue that as bashing. I'm as pro-LE as the next guy, and I appreciate the thanklessness of the job. My father is a retired sheriff and police chief. Though not the same job description as on the civilian side, I was a Marine MP and worked as a dispatcher, jailor and booking officer at a couple LE agencies in my younger says. I'm on your side. I just think this particular situation could have been handled differently. Sorry about the smugness, Mike.
scbair
Member
Okay, I'll admit two things:
1) I was a LEO, but it was a LOOONG time ag;
2) I'm not really conversant with the latest electronic wizardry available to LEOs as "less-lethal" alternatives.
Addressing the second issue, when I heard "taser" on the news, I immediately thought of the device that launches two darts, attached to the laucher/power pack by wires, that penetrate the skin or clothing of the target. The 75-year old woman's description ("I saw her draw a gun from her belt. . .") also sounded like this device. Reading the accounts quoted in this thread makes it sound more like a "stun gun" that uses two metal contacts pressed against the target.
The second point: I dealt with youths, the elderly, druggies, drunks and genuine "hardcase" violent offenders. I never had to shoot anyone, but I did make use of CS (it was before OC became available), nightsticks (remember the old Monadnock PR-24?), a Kel Light (the original "metal police flashlight), and a couple of Bucheimer blackjacks & saps, in addition to empty hand restraint and control techniques.
I saw the 75-year old on TV; she appears fairly typical; not unusually large, moves and acts age-appropriately.
I am always reluctant to make a judgment without fairly hearing all facts, and am willing to have the officer and chief explain to me WHY an active duty LEO would feel the need to use ANY weapon on a 75-year old woman, EVEN if she "took a swing" at the LEO.
That said, I'm afraid the explanation would have to be great!! If I had ever done so, I'd have worried more about the reactions of my fellow officers than those of my superiors! I'd have been ridiculed and ostracized, and (I think) legitimately so. If the LEO can't handle this individual without using that level of force, I shudder to think how she'll respond to an agitated 12 year old male juvenile.
My main worry would have been that the elderly woman would injure herself, either by hitting me and breaking her hand or losing her balance and falling. As I stated, I'm willing to hear why the officer used electric shock instead of simply controlling and restraining the "offender" (and I'm even reasonably certain, form info from the various sources- the woman, the police and the nursing facility staff- that the woman did more to provoke the incident than she's admitting), but any such explanation would probably cast grave doubt on this LEO's competency to execute her duties.
I just can't even visualize any realistic justification . . .
1) I was a LEO, but it was a LOOONG time ag;
2) I'm not really conversant with the latest electronic wizardry available to LEOs as "less-lethal" alternatives.
Addressing the second issue, when I heard "taser" on the news, I immediately thought of the device that launches two darts, attached to the laucher/power pack by wires, that penetrate the skin or clothing of the target. The 75-year old woman's description ("I saw her draw a gun from her belt. . .") also sounded like this device. Reading the accounts quoted in this thread makes it sound more like a "stun gun" that uses two metal contacts pressed against the target.
The second point: I dealt with youths, the elderly, druggies, drunks and genuine "hardcase" violent offenders. I never had to shoot anyone, but I did make use of CS (it was before OC became available), nightsticks (remember the old Monadnock PR-24?), a Kel Light (the original "metal police flashlight), and a couple of Bucheimer blackjacks & saps, in addition to empty hand restraint and control techniques.
I saw the 75-year old on TV; she appears fairly typical; not unusually large, moves and acts age-appropriately.
I am always reluctant to make a judgment without fairly hearing all facts, and am willing to have the officer and chief explain to me WHY an active duty LEO would feel the need to use ANY weapon on a 75-year old woman, EVEN if she "took a swing" at the LEO.
That said, I'm afraid the explanation would have to be great!! If I had ever done so, I'd have worried more about the reactions of my fellow officers than those of my superiors! I'd have been ridiculed and ostracized, and (I think) legitimately so. If the LEO can't handle this individual without using that level of force, I shudder to think how she'll respond to an agitated 12 year old male juvenile.
My main worry would have been that the elderly woman would injure herself, either by hitting me and breaking her hand or losing her balance and falling. As I stated, I'm willing to hear why the officer used electric shock instead of simply controlling and restraining the "offender" (and I'm even reasonably certain, form info from the various sources- the woman, the police and the nursing facility staff- that the woman did more to provoke the incident than she's admitting), but any such explanation would probably cast grave doubt on this LEO's competency to execute her duties.
I just can't even visualize any realistic justification . . .
Sodbuster
Talking to people isnt newsworthy, unless they are perched on a ledge or holding a hostage. Verbalization is on the typical force contimuum and even then it is normally broken into levels, from convertation to requests to direction to command. If this officer walked in and immediately tased the woman without any verbalization I would hold that as wrong. As to deadlines there has to be a practical limitation as to how long these things drag on, and even prolonging them is no garantee of a successful ending - look at Waco and Ruby Ridge. Also note that most officers work in smaller agencies without assistance or specialized resources. If there are only 2 cops working in the county and calls are backing up that are more serious, occasionally you gotta do what you gotta do.
Tasing a 75 year old lady is news, persuading her to leave is not.
FWIW I was trained as a crisis negotiator and have done graduate work in psychology and sociology, focusing on interpersonal communication and how it relates to deception. I have "talked" to a number of people in similar situations and some worse, and fortunately it worked more often than not. But one of the major errors negotiators make is to start believing that anyone can be negotiated thru any problem. Unfortunately that is'nt the way it works and occassionally people need to be physically subdude. Whether or not this was one of those situations remains to be seen.
Talking to people isnt newsworthy, unless they are perched on a ledge or holding a hostage. Verbalization is on the typical force contimuum and even then it is normally broken into levels, from convertation to requests to direction to command. If this officer walked in and immediately tased the woman without any verbalization I would hold that as wrong. As to deadlines there has to be a practical limitation as to how long these things drag on, and even prolonging them is no garantee of a successful ending - look at Waco and Ruby Ridge. Also note that most officers work in smaller agencies without assistance or specialized resources. If there are only 2 cops working in the county and calls are backing up that are more serious, occasionally you gotta do what you gotta do.
Tasing a 75 year old lady is news, persuading her to leave is not.
FWIW I was trained as a crisis negotiator and have done graduate work in psychology and sociology, focusing on interpersonal communication and how it relates to deception. I have "talked" to a number of people in similar situations and some worse, and fortunately it worked more often than not. But one of the major errors negotiators make is to start believing that anyone can be negotiated thru any problem. Unfortunately that is'nt the way it works and occassionally people need to be physically subdude. Whether or not this was one of those situations remains to be seen.
FPrice
Member
"A soldier serving in Iraq posted on another forum that tasering an Iraqi prisoner is considered torture and is forbidden.
If it is true, why is it acceptable to taser 75 year old ladies in America?"
Probably because in the former instance (assuming the prisoner is being compliant) that doing anything to cause pain is unnecessary while in the latter the subject is exhibiting behavior which requires intervention.
The problem here is that an out-of-control 75 year old lady is still a 75 year old lady and as such is automatically given a pass by those who have never had to deal with an out-of-control elderly person. Shall we let her continue in such a fashion until she causes a problem with the other patients or until she does something to injure herself, or maybe someone else?
Talk to a staffer from a Nursing home or similar institution where they have to deal with the elderly on a regular basis. Not every 75 year old is just like Aunt Bea from Mayberry NC. Full of sweetness, wisdom, and freshly baked cookies for Opie, Andy, and Barney. An awful lot are mean, surly, or have regressed to childhood stages of mind and behavior.
There are just too many variables and too little information in this story to know just what went on and exactly what everyone faced. Therefore in the absence of enough information to make an informed comment, everyone has to default to their previously established level of training/opinion on LE.
1. All cops are good and do no wrong.
2. Cops have a very difficult job, have to deal with a wide variety of situations, and sometimes make good judgements and sometimes make bad judgements because they are human.
3. All cops are bad and do no good.
Take your pick. And for most of you just be glad that YOU don't have to prove what you would do in such a situation.
If it is true, why is it acceptable to taser 75 year old ladies in America?"
Probably because in the former instance (assuming the prisoner is being compliant) that doing anything to cause pain is unnecessary while in the latter the subject is exhibiting behavior which requires intervention.
The problem here is that an out-of-control 75 year old lady is still a 75 year old lady and as such is automatically given a pass by those who have never had to deal with an out-of-control elderly person. Shall we let her continue in such a fashion until she causes a problem with the other patients or until she does something to injure herself, or maybe someone else?
Talk to a staffer from a Nursing home or similar institution where they have to deal with the elderly on a regular basis. Not every 75 year old is just like Aunt Bea from Mayberry NC. Full of sweetness, wisdom, and freshly baked cookies for Opie, Andy, and Barney. An awful lot are mean, surly, or have regressed to childhood stages of mind and behavior.
There are just too many variables and too little information in this story to know just what went on and exactly what everyone faced. Therefore in the absence of enough information to make an informed comment, everyone has to default to their previously established level of training/opinion on LE.
1. All cops are good and do no wrong.
2. Cops have a very difficult job, have to deal with a wide variety of situations, and sometimes make good judgements and sometimes make bad judgements because they are human.
3. All cops are bad and do no good.
Take your pick. And for most of you just be glad that YOU don't have to prove what you would do in such a situation.
No problem, Sodbuster.
I agree that I really want to know what happened prior to the use of the Taser. As in every instance, that is what will decide if it was a good use of it or not. This instance is complicated by the fact that the old lady was, well, an old lady. Probably less of a physical threat, but also more difficult to take into custody without causing injury. I freely admit that this can go either way. My knee-jerk reaction is the same as everyone's here ("oh, God. They juiced grandma!"), but I also know that there are times when its use would be quite appropriate, possibly life-saving, in just such a scenario.
It all boils down to the bane of internet discussions on Use of Force: the details make the difference, and we don't know the details.
As to the idea that "if the cop can't resolve this situation without using the Taser, how will he/she handle X" ... this assumes that any person's verbal skills can create the desired outcome if the right thing is done or said. Sadly, this is not the case. It takes two to communicate, it takes two to reach a peaceful, acceptable, legal outcome. If one half does not want to cooperate, the whole endevour fails. If it does, you're back to square one: do I wrestle with the fragile old lady, or do I use mace/taser/whatever?
I'm sure every cop in the nation wishes he could just walk up to someone who is going to fight, say the right thing, and they become polite, compliant and peaceful. It doesn't work that way, alas.
However, to nitpick one item: Most of the 'pro-cop' posters are saying "hey, this could be good or bad" whereas many of the 'anti-cop' posters are saying that it was bad regardless of the facts.
I'll leave it to the gentle reader to decide who is being more reasonable.
Mike
I agree that I really want to know what happened prior to the use of the Taser. As in every instance, that is what will decide if it was a good use of it or not. This instance is complicated by the fact that the old lady was, well, an old lady. Probably less of a physical threat, but also more difficult to take into custody without causing injury. I freely admit that this can go either way. My knee-jerk reaction is the same as everyone's here ("oh, God. They juiced grandma!"), but I also know that there are times when its use would be quite appropriate, possibly life-saving, in just such a scenario.
It all boils down to the bane of internet discussions on Use of Force: the details make the difference, and we don't know the details.
As to the idea that "if the cop can't resolve this situation without using the Taser, how will he/she handle X" ... this assumes that any person's verbal skills can create the desired outcome if the right thing is done or said. Sadly, this is not the case. It takes two to communicate, it takes two to reach a peaceful, acceptable, legal outcome. If one half does not want to cooperate, the whole endevour fails. If it does, you're back to square one: do I wrestle with the fragile old lady, or do I use mace/taser/whatever?
I'm sure every cop in the nation wishes he could just walk up to someone who is going to fight, say the right thing, and they become polite, compliant and peaceful. It doesn't work that way, alas.
This is my usual argument, so I tend to agree with it.
However, to nitpick one item: Most of the 'pro-cop' posters are saying "hey, this could be good or bad" whereas many of the 'anti-cop' posters are saying that it was bad regardless of the facts.I'll leave it to the gentle reader to decide who is being more reasonable.
Mike
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
I dunno. I've seen some darned healthy and darned big 75-year-old women. They may not have the endurance for a protracted set-to, but they can darned sure hurt you if they're mad. A short-term adrenalin rush can create a bunch of misery.
You get some big ol' Queen Mary wandering around and feeling she's been "done wrong to" and you can't tell what's gonna go through her mind next. You don't know what she'll pull out of her purse, or if she'll pull a darning needle out of her hairdo.
Not enough info in these articles--as usual--to make any definitive judgement. Right now, it's just another, "She said/she said..." deal.
Art
You get some big ol' Queen Mary wandering around and feeling she's been "done wrong to" and you can't tell what's gonna go through her mind next. You don't know what she'll pull out of her purse, or if she'll pull a darning needle out of her hairdo.
Not enough info in these articles--as usual--to make any definitive judgement. Right now, it's just another, "She said/she said..." deal.
Art
Daniel T
Member
scbair:
If I remember correctly, a Taser can be used against someone without having to launch the darts. The compressed air pack that launches the darts can be removed, and then the probes be be pushed against the target's skin and the trigger pulled. At this point, it functions almost just like a "stun gun".
...
Shield529, I hope you meant "I cannot under any circumstances justify using a Taser on an unarmed 75 year old woman." I think a Taser would be the perfect response to an elderly suspect armed with a club or knife. Otherwise, you may be exposing yourself to more danger than is neccesary.
If I remember correctly, a Taser can be used against someone without having to launch the darts. The compressed air pack that launches the darts can be removed, and then the probes be be pushed against the target's skin and the trigger pulled. At this point, it functions almost just like a "stun gun".
...
Shield529, I hope you meant "I cannot under any circumstances justify using a Taser on an unarmed 75 year old woman." I think a Taser would be the perfect response to an elderly suspect armed with a club or knife. Otherwise, you may be exposing yourself to more danger than is neccesary.
1. The lady was visiting a friend.
2. The person who complained about the lady was NOT a resident.
3. Why was it impossible to tell her if her friend was alive or dead?
If indeed the lady needed to be removed from the property, simply answering her questions and politely explaining the legal basis for her being required to leave would have solved the problem. However, I don't see any mention of her friend, a legal resident of the property, asking her to leave!
Just because she is 75 does NOT negate her rights!
2. The person who complained about the lady was NOT a resident.
3. Why was it impossible to tell her if her friend was alive or dead?
If indeed the lady needed to be removed from the property, simply answering her questions and politely explaining the legal basis for her being required to leave would have solved the problem. However, I don't see any mention of her friend, a legal resident of the property, asking her to leave!
Just because she is 75 does NOT negate her rights!
ebd10
Member
Regardless if you feel that tasering a 75 y/o woman was proper or not, the media continues to fan the flames of division between civilians and LE. I predict that before too much longer, something REALLY ugly is going to happen. Something that has resounding and national repercussions.
Something ugly has already happened. The "us and them" division exists, and it is not up to individual citizens to try and deal with it. Citizens need to stand up and demand that the politicians they elect to protect them from these rogues exert their authority and actually deal with it in a firm way. A good way to start is by publicly firing the chief executive of LE agencies that don't toe the line, and making it very clear the reason the chief was fired was because he chose to protect a few rogue officers over the public.
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