Police, wrong house, kill homeowner in error

[NMexJim]

This was a case of everything going wrong at the same time. Police responded to a domestic and got the wrong house number. They had knocked and tried to identify themselves. The occupants didn’t hear them identify, but they did hear the banging on the door. The occupant opened the door and stepped out leading with his pistol. He was killed by officers almost instantly. His wife was behind him and returned fire on the police. It’s fortunate she wasn’t hurt no were any police.

Not sure how this fits into strategies other than not to barge out a front door leading with a pistol. I usually blade to the door with my pistol behind my inside leg. Might have saved this man’s life.


https://www.koat.com/article/body-cam-fatal-farmington-police-shooting-wrong-home/43606069

 

[Jeff White]

We've discussed this before. Don't open the door until you know who is outside. There are all kinds of reasonably priced camera systems, peepholes and other ways to see who is at the door before you open it. I never stood in front of the door when making contact. That's how we were taught years ago. You might want to look at a way you can view the sides of the door.

 

[WestKentucky]

We've discussed this before. Don't open the door until you know who is outside. There are all kinds of reasonably priced camera systems, peepholes and other ways to see who is at the door before you open it. I never stood in front of the door when making contact. That's how we were taught years ago. You might want to look at a way you can view the sides of the door.

My house has a nice setup. Porch is inset into the face of the home so it’s essentially a 6x6 box you walk through to get to the door. It’s covered and my bedroom pokes out the face of the house just a tad. Gutter downspout does a really good job of hiding the Ring camera that looks down on the porch from about 2 ft beyond the steps.

To further illustrate the wonderful setup that this is, about a year ago we had an issue. One of the kids got mad at us for taking the phone away. Kid wanted to get even by causing a ruckus in the neighborhood. She was quite successful, and we had neighbors at our door promptly. The ladies were nice until the door got opened at which point they started fussing cussing and trying to push my wife back away from the door. I shoved the door closed and called the cops. Cops watched the footage and noticed a man at the edge of the screen hiding in the bushes with a baseball bat before they rang the bell. They spent a day or two in a holding cell. My daughter got a total of about a dozen full blown recalibrations. One from every cop involved, every grandparent, me and my wife, and the one that seemed worst of all, from my 2 yr old.

We missed the guy in the bushes. But we could easily see the ladies on the porch, knew that their hands were empty, and based upon the tight clothes (being generous there) that they weren’t armed.

 

[Zygodactyl]

That incident has been on the news for a while. Besides the body camera they also showed it from the ring camera. They had their flashlights aimed at the door and all you could see were the lights. No way to identify who was outside. The homeowner didn't have a chance.

 

[Blue Jays]

Many folks must stop answering or even approaching the door for totally unexpected and unscheduled guests.

 

[shafter]

The majority of homes, at least in my area, are very poorly marked which is a real challenge for first responders. It's not uncommon to knock on the wrong door.

When it comes to standing in front of the door its a bad idea as others have said but it's important to remember that bullets can go through doors on the diagonal relative to where the shooter is standing. Just because you are offset doesn't mean you are out of the line of fire. With that being said I don't assume that every knock on my door is going to result in a hail of gunfire coming through it. Unless something feels off I'm still going to answer it.

 

[Kleanbore]

Opening the door with gun in hand is a bad idea no matter who may be knocking.

 

[Bigdog357]

Many folks must stop answering or even approaching the door for totally unexpected and unscheduled guests.

Yup, this is me, I don't answer the door unless you have been invited to my property, so don't bother knocking. Once in a while I have some idiot that can't read, go passed the No trespassing/Private Property signs on the fence and knock on the door. If my door happens to be open, and I can't avoid interacting with them, it usually not a pleasant conversation for them.

 

[P89DCSS]

I never answer the door without knowing who's there. A video surveillance system with real-time audio/video can be purchased for the price of a low-end 9mm pistol. A doorbell camera with two way audio costs under $100, works even if you're not home.

 

[jmorris]

I’ll add this to the list of why I like knowing folks are outside before they get to the house.

 

[wayneinFL]

At our new house I can see who's knocking.

At my old house, it was hard to tell, because the cops would step away from the door. And away from the door meant stepping out of about a 12' long funnel. Even with the peephole, a camera recordng on a VCR, and eventually a Ring camera at the door, it was hard to tell if it was the cops or a kid doing ding dong ditch. They're out of camera view either in the dark in the yard, or hiding behind the garage. And while you could hear a knock, you couldn't always hear voice through the foam core steel door.

We really should have had a camera on the corner of the garage facing the entrance.

 

[drband]

At our new house I can see who's knocking.

At my old house, it was hard to tell, because the cops would step away from the door. And away from the door meant stepping out of about a 12' long funnel. Even with the peephole, a camera recordng on a VCR, and eventually a Ring camera at the door, it was hard to tell if it was the cops or a kid doing ding dong ditch. They're out of camera view either in the dark in the yard, or hiding behind the garage. And while you could hear a knock, you couldn't always hear voice through the foam core steel door.

We really should have had a camera on the corner of the garage facing the entrance.

Cameras are so inexpensive now they should be required equipment for any home.

 

[Hartkopf]

Cameras are so inexpensive now they should be required equipment for any home.

Homes are so expensive now, they should come with free cameras!

 

[wayneinFL]

Homes are so expensive now, they should come with free cameras!

For the price I'm selling my house for, it should come with a free cop.

 

[Coyote3855]

I recommend "The Rise of the Warrior Cop" by Radley Balko. I am an unapologetic supporter of law enforcement and a Special Deputy with my local Sheriff's Department.

Mistakes were made on both sides in the OP's example. LE must verify addresses. Homeowners shouldn't open the door, especially when holding a firearm. See Massad Ayoob on answering doors.

 

[JohnKSa]

They had their flashlights aimed at the door and all you could see were the lights. No way to identify who was outside. The homeowner didn't have a chance.

Excellent analysis. I hope with all my heart that everyone here can see the same thing you do.

If you open the door against unknown person(s) when you can't identify them, even if you have a gun in your hand, you won't have a chance unless they mean you no harm. This means that unless your goal is to commit suicide, don't open the door if you can't tell who is outside waiting for you.

Cops watched the footage and noticed a man at the edge of the screen hiding in the bushes with a baseball bat before they rang the bell.

Similar thing happened to my neighbor. Someone rang the doorbell late at night. He has a good view of the front entryway and didn't recognize the person so he just watched. After awhile the guy left and as he walked away, a second person who had been hiding out of sight, just around the corner of the house, stepped out of concealment and walked away with him. I suspect things could have turned out very badly had Kevin decided to open his door to talk.

 

[NMexJim]

I recommend "The Rise of the Warrior Cop" by Radley Balko. I am an unapologetic supporter of law enforcement and a Special Deputy with my local Sheriff's Department.

Mistakes were made on both sides in the OP's example. LE must verify addresses. Homeowners shouldn't open the door, especially when holding a firearm. See Massad Ayoob on answering doors.

Yes, I agree and I am a supporter as well. An unfortunate incident from all perspectives.

 

[FL-NC]

No excuses for such incompetence leading into such a catastrophic consequence by a public servant. I hope that everyone culpable is held accountable to the fullest extent of the law. A similar situation happened in my area some years ago due to an officer responding to a report of a front door left wide open (the door had nor been fully closed and the wind probably blew it open) in the middle of the night. It ended with three shots fired by the officer- 2 flyers that nearly hit the homeowner's wife, and 1 that ended up in the leg of the homeowner (an active duty service member), who recovered.

 

[The Night Rider]

I'm pretty sure I posted this in the last discussion, I'm going to post it here and that, along with my usual comment that if you think things are so shady that you feel the need to open the door with a gun in your hand maybe you shouldn't open the door at all, is kind of going to be the extent of my participation.



I'll also add the usual if you're not expected at my home I'm not opening the door caveat.

 

[The Night Rider]

I thought of something more that I want to say. First I want to give some background.

I worked as a security guard for the last 15 years of my work life. People make money on YouTube and Tik Tok trifling with security guards.

They do their "First Amendment Audits" in which they deliberately try to provoke the guard hoping for a payout or they go out looking to provoke a guard to a fight and then four or five of them jump in and beat the hell out of him.

When I was working we got constant briefings on how to behave in such a situation.

After a while you start thinking about that every time you leave your guard shack or anytime you encounter someone you don't know. It becomes habitual. So that's the background for why I have the mindset that I have.

The point that I'm trying to communicate is that in the world that we live in you really need to develop that mindset every time you open your front door. Regardless of what people say the world has become a much more dangerous place.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Different thought

I was going to say you need to think about that every time you open your front door, you need to ask yourself is the person out there a threat.

But really if you're not certain of who's on the other side of the door you shouldn't open it at all.

That "one weird trick" would have stopped this whole incident from happening

 

[shafter]

No excuses for such incompetence leading into such a catastrophic consequence by a public servant. I hope that everyone culpable is held accountable to the fullest extent of the law. A similar situation happened in my area some years ago due to an officer responding to a report of a front door left wide open (the door had nor been fully closed and the wind probably blew it open) in the middle of the night. It ended with three shots fired by the officer- 2 flyers that nearly hit the homeowner's wife, and 1 that ended up in the leg of the homeowner (an active duty service member), who recovered.

How was it incompetent by the police? They knocked on a door. The homeowners were the ones who screwed up by opening the door with a gun. Of course the police shot them. They were responding to a domestic.

 

[JeeperCreeper]

Hope the estate sues in civil court

 

[PistoleroWadcutterGANG]

Not trying to be funny or make light. It is sad for both sides and unfortunate. I'm just going to say a BIG barking dog or many in the front window has had great results with people reminding their manners at our house.

 

[Kleanbore]

Not trying to be funny or make light. It is sad for both sides and unfortunate. I'm just going to say a BIG barking dog or many in the front window has had great results with people reminding their manners at our house.

Would a dog have caused the couple to act more prudently?

 

[FL-NC]

How was it incompetent by the police? They knocked on a door. The homeowners were the ones who screwed up by opening the door with a gun. Of course the police shot them. They were responding to a domestic.

First and foremost, a massive communications failure, and possibly an error in navigation. From the article, it seems that the responding officers weren't even sure they were at the correct objective up until the point of no return. Could the homeowners have made better tactical decision? Sure. But in the end, they were reacting to a situation that they should have never been forced into, and I bet they were scared beyond belief the whole time. An unmitigated rush to catastrophe. This led to a shooting that was fatal to a citizen in his own home. Total mission failure, and I have no idea if the actual domestic call was even addressed, or how it may have ended- was another victim injured or worse while a random homeowner was being shot to death? A weapon discharged is a bell that can never be un-rung. If something comes out the end of your gun, you own the responsibility for it, for better or worse. Serve and protect.