Possible Scenario Question

Status
Not open for further replies.

mikep99

Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2005
Messages
117
Location
South Florida
I am curious about a situation that may happen to anyone but with the application of Florida law.

If you are sleeping at night and all of the sudden are awaken by noises come from outside which end up being two to three guys breaking into your car, what would you do?

Second, tell me if the following is legal or not:

1. Run outside with your firearm(whatever it is), pointing it at them, and say "freeze!; stop don't move!; get on the ground, etc., and then call the police?

2. Run outside with a baseball bat and beat them like crazy until they are on the floor, then call the police?

3. Run outside with your firearm and tell them to stop and sit down without pointing the firearm at them you let them know you are armed, then call the police.

4. Runing outside and shooting them
 
No. Do none of the above. Get their descriptions and call the police from the safety of your home. Arm yourself if you feel more comfortable armed, but don't confront someout OUTSIDE of your home with a deadly weapon. You're just asking for trouble. You will be on the wrong side of the law and also be the aggressor, giving the BAD GUYS the right to use self defense against YOU, the AGRESSOR with a deadly weapon.

Using deadly force to protect your property WILL likely result in someone dying. If you kill to protect your property (in most states) you WILL get convicted of a felony and you WILL go to jail and when you get out you WILL NOT be allowed to own a gun, ever. Your attorney fees will cost $50,000 for a capital murder case.
 
Can someone chime in for Texas also? In texas deadly force is justified if someone is on your property comitting a crime during daylight. Deadly force is justified AFTER DARK if you think they are about to commit a crime.

§ 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the
other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the
nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or
recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to
protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1,
1994.


I'm not saying I recommend it, but thats how the laws are written. What would YOU do?
 
From my *basic* understanding of criminal law from my criminal justice classes, defense of your home does NOT extend to the kurtilage, or the area around your home.
Now, if these car prowlers decide to become home-invaders than you have a better defense but deadly force to protect your car does not apply and you cannot claim the "castle" defense.

However, if you go outside and confront your new found friends and they open fire on you, than I believe you may use any means necessary to defend your life and those of your family.
 
Interestingly enough I could've sworn that I read the Florida law and deadly force extended to robbery but I am not sure if that was home and not car robbery. In addition to this, I think you can use deadly force on someone trying to rape a girl? I am not sure about that either.
 
Weather deadly force is legal or not to defend property in my jurisdiction, I go with the "good witness" approach for this one. It's just property in a car, or the car itself. Not worth killing or risking death for.
 
I'd go out with my 12ga(or whatever),and tell them to freeze,and then I'd politely tell them that by the time the cops get here,they'll have a weapon in their dead hands if they don't do exactly what I tell them to do...:D
 
Frame stupid jackasses for armed robbery so you can blast someone outside your house for messing with your car? I'll file that away under "things to do when I have become what I most despise."

If there are three of them, odds are they're kids. If they're messing with your car, they want something for free, like your stereo. Best deterrent is to let them know you're watching.

Get the house lights on, if you feel its necessary get armed, and yell at them. If they don't leave when you yell, then the situation has just been escalated. Lock the doors, call the cops, get armed if you weren't already. Then go back and keep yelling.

For the record, what do you think the odds are that three potential car robbers won't scatter if you make your awareness of what they're doing known? Pretty slim. And if they don't, you have a much bigger problem than charging your front lawn in your pajamas like its friggin' gettysburg is gonna fix, and you need help and shelter more than you need to feel like a hero.
 
I may be paranoid, but who is to say that they won't come back after they are out of jail. Seriously, if you come outside, like I was saying, and start yellying, threatening, etc., who's to say that if and when they get caught--of course this is all dependent on the situation and whether it happens outside your house-- they won't hold a grudge against you and come back later on one day?

My car was broken into and that pissed me off so much, that at times I think I would've ran out with my P99 and plucked a couple. However, I know that would not be the case and or the right thing to do for obvious reasons and reasons stated in this thread.
 
To expand on what mikep99 said, keep in mind that almost all perps are going to have a release date, so you might want ot keep track of their travels thru the system, and find out where they set up shop upon their eventual release.

This is easy in florida for state prisoners via the following data base.

http://www.dc.state.fl.us/ActiveInmates/search.asp


some of my watch list.

http://www.dc.state.fl.us/InmateReleases/detail.asp?Bookmark=10&From=list&SessionID=940711084

and

http://www.dc.state.fl.us/ActiveInmates/detail.asp?Bookmark=3&From=list&SessionID=940601347
 
Wow that is a great way to keep tabs on people.

Rockhind, would you mind elaborating on what these convicts did to you?

I read about the first link that you posted. The guy has several acts of crime on his back.
 
It looks like the links to lookups expire rather quickly, the first winner is Gary Anthony Braggs, and he is locked up for burglary on an occupied dwelling, and drug possession.

My wife awoke me one night as Mr. Braggs was trying to make his way in our bedroom window. I armed myself and my wife grabbed a can of spray paint and we took up positions on either side of the window. We didn't want the loser to get away, but we also did not want to shoot an unarmed person, that’s where the spray paint came in.

So we watched this guy climb on the back of my pickup which was backed up to our apartment bedroom window, then he unscrewed the bulbs on the motion detector lights we installed, then proceeded to try to pry the window up.

By this time about five minutes had passed and my wife suggested we call 911, I was primed for immediate action so The thought never crossed my mind. So she went to get the phone While I waited for Mr. Braggs. She handed me the phone, and I started to whisper the situation to the dispatcher, who kept saying what, what? So at that point I my wife, who was trying to quietly shake the paint can, which is pretty funny in retrospect, and I moved to the other side of the room, so I could speak up and she could get the paint can shook up.

The guy outside, having no luck with the prying starts to bang the window with his hands, apparently trying to break it. I had recently tinted the windows and I surmise that this gave them a little more strength.

After a few more minutes, a super bright light silloutes the guy who is spread eagle across the window, perhaps trying to hold it on the top of the frame while pulling up on the bottom window. So the guy disappears backwards suddenly off the window, like a tree frog snagged by an owl, I hear thumping and tumbling sounds outside, the dispatcher is screaming on the phone for me to put down my gun, and a gentle knock on the front door followed by a calm measured voice saying "all clear, you can come out when ever your are ready."

So I put some clothes on and follow the officer around back where I see Mr. Braggs handcuffed on the floor and apparently trying to give me the tough guy don't f w me evil eye, which was totally ineffective from his face down handcuffed position.

here is the link for as long as it lasts.
http://www.dc.state.fl.us/ActiveInmates/detail.asp?Bookmark=3&From=list&SessionID=940651072

Gary Anthony Braggs, prison number 402808

Our next guest of the state, Mr. John Linder and his two friends and a one Hooker, allegedly, (trial is still pending) broke into my apartment while I was off hunting, and my wife was staying the weekend at a friends house. He stole all the firearms in the apartment, my computer and various other goodies. My wife and I, being rather relentless, and having no luck w the police, went door to door to every single residence with in about a half mile of our house and explained what had happened to everybody we could, eventually we found out a thing or two, stayed up some late nights spoke to a few ladies of the evening and found the temporary residence of at least two of the perps. So for the next three days, we called the Police Station six times a day, and got no satisfaction. We eventually found out that the case had not even been assigned to a detective yet. So after a few more days of this, about 01:30 in the morning , about 30 minutes after our 13:00 hours call to the police station, a detective called us back. He arranged to come by our apartment, and when we explained the story to him, he said well lets go get them right now. So we did, He brang up pictures on his laptop, stopped by the check in desk to check the registry, and picked up a witness who confirmed identities and such. Shortly there after, he and many other officers and cop doggies knocked gently on the aforementioned hotel room, politely asked to look around, was granted access (why do baddies always hang themselves?) and found drugs up the wazoo, but none of my stuff. By this time the baddies outside had about confessed themselves to death. One of them was a first timer, and the other had about five pages on his rap sheet.

So, off to jail w them.

The head baddie, Mr. Linder, was out so the detective left his card with the desk clerk with instructions to call when he came back.

After about a week of calling only once every other day, the detective calls me and says I need to come down and identify my stuff. So I walk in and there it all is, guns, tools, computer etc. There was even one extra gun, a nice browning .45 but I had to admit it wasn’t mine. The detective told me he and his team had spent the week running from the guys mom's house to his girl friends house, to his brothers house and various other places tracking the guy down.

At my interview with the state attorney career criminals division, the prosecutor said the hotel clerk had given Mr. Linder the detective's card and he had walked into the police station trying to find out what was up, even had to wait about an hour for the detective to come out.

Funny thing, when the found my tool boxes, they were filled with drugs, and Mr. Linder claimed that they were in there when he stole them from me. Mr. Linder is serving a twenty year sentence, half in half out, he was on the second half of his sentence, serving the ten years on the outside, and then he was to start parole. He was occupying himself while on the outside, running a group of hookers out of the hotel, selling large amount of drugs, and apparently the occasion B and E. He and his two buds are now in Dade county Jail awaiting trial. The cops have no interest in finding the hooker who drove their getaway car.

I now have a few safes bolted to the floor and reinforced doorways. Mr. Braggs came along to our back window a few weeks after Mr. Linder and his posse, so we were on a heightened level of alert. We told Mr. Braggs’ prosecutor that we wanted to know how he came to target our place, she did not give a crap and made a deal with out notifying us, se la vie. One day soon I will drive up to his place of incarceration and ask him myself.

Mr. Linder is potentially facing a life sentence.

John W Linder dc number 067391
http://www.dc.state.fl.us/InmateReleases/detail.asp?Bookmark=10&From=list&SessionID=81133358
 
Status
Not open for further replies.