Self Defense Scenario - what say you?

[bsctov]

My apologies if this has already been posted. However, I do not agree with the people in this thread who are saying to sit tight and wait for something to happen. IANAL, but..


If the perps do not know you are there, you have a critical element of suprise that you can use to your advantage. As far as you are not a LEO and "Your life is not yet in danger because they don't know you are there." This is simply not true and is very bad advice for a few reasons...

If you are inside the bathroom and there are 2 ARMED FELONS pointing their guns at other people, your life and the clerks life is now IN DANGER. What if he decides to go check out the bathroom while you are "Sitting tight" and it comes down to a pistol fight whilst you are stuck in a stall with about 1-2 feet on either side to run too? Is your life still "Not in danger"?

Once again I am not trying to be rude or inflammatory here, but it seems like most of the people who are replying to these kinds of threads are more interested in protecting the political correctness of CCW then protecting their own lives or the lives of others that may be in danger and should reconsider their continued CCW.

 

[GLOOB]

In this scenario, what am I carrying? A NAA .22 LR mini revolver? Or a PLR-16?

 

[twofifty]

911 call a mistake

Calling 911 in this particular scenario can easily lead to the police surrounding the BGs while you and they are still in the convenience store. This does not increase the odds of you walking out unharmed.

With no way out, the BGs may take the clerk hostage, then seek cover in the back of the store, in the storage room or the bathroom. If a long standoff develops, the BGs will eventually need to use the bathroom...where you holed up.

I was present in a grocery store heist -two guys: one revolver, one SG- and the last thing I wanted was for the police to show up, or for a pack-boy to suddenly go into hero mode. The thieves went from register to register, brandishing their weapons, then were out the door before the police showed up.

 

[Lastmohecken]

This siduation probably won't go down as described. For one thing if your car is at the pump, the perps will know that someone else is in the store. Most of the time, they would wait it out, until noone else is in the store, and if they didn't, they are going to be looking for you.

But if it did happen that way, probably the only choice that doesn't get the clerk and or you shot up in the process is to just wait it out, but be ready to fight if one of the perps comes towards the bathroom to check it out, for witnesses. At that point you may have to defend yourself, and the clerk will probably be on his own, anyway.

Now I am for killing the bad guys, but not getting shot myself, and or ending up in court, is also pretty high on my list of things to avoid. The clerk's best chance is to just give them the money, and hope they will leave him alive. He is already behind the curve, and you will be too if you try to intervene. Of course, once the lead starts flying, the perps will sometimes want only to get the heck out of there, but you can't depend on it.

I also would not call 911 until it was over, unless I was witness from outside the store. My attention is going to be on my own preservation, which will probably require both hands in some sort of Weaver stance.

 

[jl1966]

bsctov,
All due respect, but political correctness has nothing to do with it. If you are not being directly threatened, your life is not in danger. Yes, the clerks life is in danger, and you are in a perilous situation, but not as yet life threatening. I just dont feel that initiating a gunfight with a couple of dirtbags in a gas & go is a smart idea. How will you proceed? You must challenge them first, giving them a chance to surrender. Then the initiative rests with them, give up, or open fire on you and the clerk. If they choose to fight, then you must defend yourself and the clerk. This is assuming that you, the clerk, and bad guys 1&2 are the only ones in the store. Say the clerk catches a bullet, paralyzing him, but not killing him, and you manage to take out the BG's. The clerk is unbelievably ungrateful, blames you, says the guys were going to just take the money and leave, until you jumped out and started a gunfight. I am not picking on you or anyone else, just trying to further the discussion. Things just don't ever fall together like you think they will.

 

[bsctov]

If you are not being directly threatened, your life is not in danger.

Not necessarily. Just because you don't yet taste the smokeless powder, doesn't mean your life isn't in danger.

 

[chagasrod]

That is certainly your right and I am not saying that you are wrong.

I could not stand by and watch, for illustrations sake, a woman be gang raped or a kid be abducted. I would try to intervene even if it would lower "my odd's of going home to my wife and children". I could not live with myself if I had a reasonable chance of success and didn't try to help.



That said, in the OP's scenario intervening might get the clerk killed.

+10 To Guillermo. I think the same way!
The only problem would be the Civil ramifications of this act;
Even if we succeed we may still not go home to our families because we'd be going to jail.
1- Chances of saving the clerk would be slim and could escalate the situation;
2- We should avoid confrontation and try to call the cops first;
3-Defend ourselves if it comes to that.

 

[bsctov]

What also comes to mind here is the low incapacitation rate of handguns, you wouldn't be able to take them out fast enough unless you were very lucky and skilled and could connect with CNS but that's unlikely.

 

[Guillermo]

The only problem would be the Civil ramifications of this act

luckily I live in Texas.

here we can use lethal force to protect another

 

[Grey_Mana]

I suggest avoiding the entire situation by adapting a life style that doesn't put you in gas station bathrooms at 2 a.m.

Trust me, it can be done

"Towel sir? Cologne spritz sir? May I get the door for you sir?"

The price of gas is high, but the tips from that job can't be great.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

luckily I live in Texas.

here we can use lethal force to protect another

Amen Texas is a great state!

 

[3:00hold]

The fly in the ointment for me is the shotgun pointed at the clerk. This is a question of how to make the best of a crappy situation.

You can do nothing and the cashier could get shot, and then you have to live with doing nothing, or you can try to do something and the cashier could get shot, then you have to live with that and get sued. Yipee. I suppose you could hope that they just take the money and run, but for me that's being overly optimistic considering the situation.

One thing that may matter is where the bathroom is.