Powder and Primers back order.

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GeoDudeFlorida said:
Like I say, in any shortage of one thing, there is also a corresponding surplus of something else dependent on that one thing. When powder and primers are unobtainium, brass and bullets get cheaper.
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Have to disagree here...ain’t nothin cheap about brass right now. Once fired 45acp is triple old prices when you can get it.
 
CQB45ACP said:
Have to disagree here...ain’t nothin cheap about brass right now. Once fired 45acp is triple old prices when you can get it.
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I bought 1000 .45ACP once-fired, wet tumbled but not resized or deprimed for $33 to my door last month. It has been cheaper at times but average two years ago was still more than that for good R-P, Winchester and Federal brass with no damaged cases or SPP mixed in. There are bargains to be found if you look. Or don't. Complaining is also an option. YMMV.

When Bass Pro is selling Berry's plated 115gr. 9mm $120/1000 and I'm finding X-Treme 124gr. plated online for $40/1000, delivered to my PO, that might not be a 1995 price but then, this isn't 1995, either. I'll take today's reality over fond memories of yesteryear any time.
 
GeoDudeFlorida said:
I bought 1000 .45ACP once-fired, wet tumbled but not resized or deprimed for $33 to my door last month. It has been cheaper at times but average two years ago was still more than that for good R-P, Winchester and Federal brass with no damaged cases or SPP mixed in. There are bargains to be found if you look. Or don't. Complaining is also an option. YMMV.

When Bass Pro is selling Berry's plated 115gr. 9mm $120/1000 and I'm finding X-Treme 124gr. plated online for $40/1000, delivered to my PO, that might not be a 1995 price but then, this isn't 1995, either. I'll take today's reality over fond memories of yesteryear any time.
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I’m not idly complaining just stating unassailable facts...:). YMMV hah—YSS (You’re smoking something). To say bullets and brass are less expensive because you found a couple of examples is interesting at best. Hardly a scientific sampling.

When they have them, 230gr RN Extreme bullets are higher and Berry’s considerably higher at Cabelas online than just 18 months ago. Two weeks ago I bought 500 mixed 45acp once fired from Everglades for double what they were Jan 2020 and 20% were worthless SPP. But they had them.

I’m not talking about ‘95, rather late 2019 early 2020.
 
BigAlShooter said:
I just bought from Midsouthshooters some Hornady XTP 9mm bullets for 19 cent a bullet. That's a pretty good price, maybe not 1995 price, but worth stocking up on. It's only like 5 cent more than most FMJ.
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That’s good. Best I’ve found lately on XTP’s is 25c/each for 85gr .310” for the .32H&R. I think that’s pretty good too considering even in good times that’s not a common/easy bullet to find.
 
sevt_chevelle said:
And just think a couple years ago I bought 6k worth of 45 plus 200 pieces of 44 mag for 65 bucks. Guy also meet me half way from Milwaukee, 1.5 hrs.
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Yup. And when I first started reloading in 1978 I could buy a half-brick of primers, a pound of Unique and a couple of 100-round boxes of Speer 140gr SJSP for what I made mowing lawns and have enough leftover for a bottle of grape Nehi. Times like that are gone forever I’m sorry to say. Gas for the mower cost more than primers for my Blackhawk .357.
 
GeoDudeFlorida said:
No. Wholesalers are consumer's too.
History hath shewn, one cannot stop grift by introducing graft. ;)
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Well wholesalers aren’t consumers in a plain language use of the term—in the sense of the end user in the physical act of reloading.

It wouldn’t be too hard for Vista to adjust sales to both the wholesale and retail levels making it easier for the consumer to buy directly (and use primers) while at the same time preserving a price break for the wholesaler/dealer, but not letting them order a limitless quantity. It’s a matter of will (and I suspect volume—the howling from wholesalers/retailers would be deafening).

It’s done routinely if not universally. Even in our little reloading world, it may be Lee which says on their Website, sure consumer, buy directly from us, but better prices are available through one of our retailers.
 
GeoDudeFlorida said:
Remarkably enough, GoneBroker, local estate sales and online liquidators like Sportsman’s Warehouse. You have to look. The shelf prices are up in general but if you watch for liquidation stock, bargains can be found.
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Well good grief...yes I’ve found sharks teeth at the beach too and 50 years ago civil war relics lying on the surface of a farm field after a rain, but that’s not a sustainable or repeatable market.
 
CQB45ACP said:
Well good grief...yes I’ve found sharks teeth at the beach too and 50 years ago civil war relics lying on the surface of a farm field after a rain, but that’s not a sustainable or repeatable market.
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Never said it was. I believe what I said was, "in any shortage of one thing, there is also a corresponding surplus of something else dependent on that one thing." I didn't exactly invent the idea or anything. Basic ECON 101. Doesnt' change when you get to ECON 4056, either. In fact, if you actually listen to the smartest economists out there, it's always been a simple fact of life in any market, any economic system, throughout human history. Buggy whips got real cheap when automobiles started outnumbering buggies. Now real "vintage" buggy whips are real expensive - more in modern dollars than they ever were when new - and why? Because they're rare collectibles now, not common tools everyone has in their garage. Economics. What a mind-blower, right?

But, like I also say - and I didn't invent this idea, either - if complaining and picking nits gets 'er done for ya, have at it and enjoy. Sometimes just blowing off steam helps make the intolerable tolerable.
 
GeoDudeFlorida said:
We came close to running out of laundry detergent because my wife's preferred brand was not available in stores for almost a year. Turns out it was a shipping problem - raw materials, packaging, finished product, all parts of the chain were empty - and it's just now getting back on shelves, around here. Even Amazon was out for months, though. Having finished product sitting on docks because you can't get trucks on the roads has got to be frustrating for those manufacturers.
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Persil? That was out here for about 2 months, bought some Tide Pods when it was out. No, I did not eat them. :)
 
GeoDudeFlorida said:
Never said it was. I believe what I said was, "in any shortage of one thing, there is also a corresponding surplus of something else dependent on that one thing." I didn't exactly invent the idea or anything. Basic ECON 101. Doesnt' change when you get to ECON 4056, either. In fact, if you actually listen to the smartest economists out there, it's always been a simple fact of life in any market, any economic system, throughout human history. Buggy whips got real cheap when automobiles started outnumbering buggies. Now real "vintage" buggy whips are real expensive - more in modern dollars than they ever were when new - and why? Because they're rare collectibles now, not common tools everyone has in their garage. Economics. What a mind-blower, right?

But, like I also say - and I didn't invent this idea, either - if complaining and picking nits gets 'er done for ya, have at it and enjoy. Sometimes just blowing off steam helps make the intolerable tolerable.
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Why the heck are you doing this? You’re just practicing sophistry and I don’t know why.

Dragging out an EC 10 textbook isn’t going to make your thesis “When powder and primers are unobtainium, brass and bullets get cheaper” an accurate description of the reloading market. That’s what you began with. That’s what I disagree with as my experience and observations show otherwise. Insulting me isn’t persuasive.
 
I remember when gas Sunoco 260 was .37 cents a gal for ETHYL

Full service, "Give me a $1.00 worth, check the oil too please".

I still find sharks teeth!:rofl:
 
In the past shortages, the theory that "when one thing is hard to find, the other stuff becomes available" certainly seemed to hold water. And that seemed true early in this shortage. But it is certainly not true now. There no longer seems to be any correlation to availability of bullets, powder, brass or primers. At this late stage, we're buying bullets when they are available even if we don't have brass or primers on hand.......primers when we see them, powder when we see it, brass when we see it. Throughout this shortage, the easiest thing for me to find and buy has been primers in bulk, and the hardest thing has been certain calibers of new brass, and certain calibers and types of bullets. Throughout this, it's always been brass that's held me up the most. Have had zero problems getting once fired, but new brass has been the long pole in the tent for a year now.
 
CQB45ACP said:
Why the heck are you doing this? You’re just practicing sophistry and I don’t know why.

Dragging out an EC 10 textbook isn’t going to make your thesis “When powder and primers are unobtainium, brass and bullets get cheaper” an accurate description of the reloading market. That’s what you began with. That’s what I disagree with as my experience and observations show otherwise. Insulting me isn’t persuasive.
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That's what I'm pointing out: when powder and primers are not to be had - out of stock, off the market, "unobtainium" - then the prices for products which rely on the availability of powder and primers - cases, bullets, reloading equipment, etc. - go down. Bargains are to be found. Are there huge billboards declaring "Cheap bullets HERE -->!!!" Nope, not that I've seen. But retailers and wholesalers not moving stock don't want to keep paying taxes and floor space costs for what's not selling so they lower prices to move inventory (as @EricBu points out, that time may be past and the excess inventory has moved). If you look, you can find bargains. Disagree all you want but it's reality, not opinion, and I'm not the only one around here who's experienced that same good fortune. Insulting me by calling me a liar or a fool hasn't made your case, either. I wasn't trying to start an argument, I was trying to point out that lower prices are out there but you may have to go looking for them and not wait for your LGS to restock and then put stuff on sale.
 
entropy said:
Persil? That was out here for about 2 months, bought some Tide Pods when it was out. No, I did not eat them. :)
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Didn't want to say because it's off topic and I don't own stock in the company. My wife has allergies to a lot of detergents - actually, the scents in the detergents - so running out of the one or two she can use and not end up in the ER is kind of important.
 
EricBu said:
In the past shortages, the theory that "when one thing is hard to find, the other stuff becomes available" certainly seemed to hold water. And that seemed true early in this shortage. But it is certainly not true now. There no longer seems to be any correlation to availability of bullets, powder, brass or primers. At this late stage, we're buying bullets when they are available even if we don't have brass or primers on hand.......primers when we see them, powder when we see it, brass when we see it. Throughout this shortage, the easiest thing for me to find and buy has been primers in bulk, and the hardest thing has been certain calibers of new brass, and certain calibers and types of bullets. Throughout this, it's always been brass that's held me up the most. Have had zero problems getting once fired, but new brass has been the long pole in the tent for a year now.
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Look on the common listing places for garage sales and estate sales. A lot of casual reloaders are giving up and selling off. Some for cheap, others like they're selling the Grail itself. It's sad and kind of makes me feel like a vulture - but a vulture with a few thousand LPP for around $20/1000 and I can live with that.
 
Rule3 said:
I remember when gas Sunoco 260 was .37 cents a gal for ETHYL

Full service, "Give me a $1.00 worth, check the oil too please".

I still find sharks teeth!:rofl:
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I remember when filling my Trump was so cheap you filled everyone else's bike too.
 
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