Powder in 1pound or 8lb for extended storage?

[Fatelvis]

Because I couldn't find 8# jugs of powder, I bought 16 1# jugs, all of the same lot number. My question is:
Do you think it might be a better idea to buy powder like this in the future, especially if you intend to load batches of only a couple hundred at a time? My thinking is that over an extended period, the other unopened jugs will stay fresh, and are of the same lot number, and won't get lighter, over time, as an open 8# jug would. I have always wondered what reading to trust when duplicating a good load using the same old jug of "now" lighter powder. Do you trust the weight, or the volume? I figure this would avoid that dilemma. Any input is appreciated.

 

[jwrowland77]

Expand on "lighter" powder.....as in the jug just gets lighter as you use it?

As long as you store it properly, the powder will be the exact same if you use it now or 6 months down the road.


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[Fatelvis]

I put the cap back on nice and tight, but after using it a few times, and after a few (to 5-6) years pass, the same volume of powder is a bit lighter. Kind of like it dried out a little. I keep the sealed jug in my climate controlled basement.

 

[VoodooMountain]

I have wondered this myself. People claim all the time ammo can be stored in a shed and last nearly indefinitely yet I know for a fact that a jug of powder treated this way will go bad in a few years.

As far as opened vs unopened containers go, if the lid and even the tamper seal are put back on nice and tight the only possible degradation that could happen (vs the unused jug) would be during use when the jug is open. In other words the question is, how many times can a guy open a bottle of powder or does it even matter?

 

[CLP]

I put the cap back on nice and tight, but after using it a few times, and after a few (to 5-6) years pass, the same volume of powder is a bit lighter. Kind of like it dried out a little. I keep the sealed jug in my climate controlled basement.

you weighed it, or it just felt lighter?

 

[Reefinmike]

you weighed it, or it just felt lighter?

I think what op meant is that he is getting a lighter charge now vs before for the same volume of powder thrown.

I like to keep a 1lb can of each powder I use over top my bench. once empty, I will weigh out another pound poured from the 8lb kegs that I keep in a wooden storage box. This way Im not constantly opening up the bulk of my powder and exposing it to the air. I only have to open each keg 8 times.

 

[Paddy]

I've been trying to do this as well. I'll order an 8 lb jugs and a 1lb at the same time u less I already have an empty 1lb. That way I get the factory labeling and all that good stuff.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

For the powders I buy in 8lb jugs I save a 1lb bottle of the same powder for use at the bench. I fill the 1lb bottle and use it so I don't have to open the big bottle a lot. I feel it stays fresher that way. Yes, I cross out the lot number on the 1lb bottle lol...

 

[Fatelvis]

you weighed it, or it just felt lighter?

I weighed it, and it is definitely lighter. After working up a load, I record the weight and micrometer setting on my powder measure (for quick set-up next time)on my data sticker.

 

[45_auto]

People claim all the time ammo can be stored in a shed and last nearly indefinitely yet I know for a fact that a jug of powder treated this way will go bad in a few years.

Crap. Now you tell me. I hate those darned facts. I've always stored my powder in my shed. Now I find out that all those thousands and thousands of rounds that I've fired over the last few years loaded with primers and powder that I bought in the 1980's were bad.

Does this mean that the deer will come back to life or the holes in the paper targets will seal up?

 

[Hangingrock]

8lb container of powder cost per pound is less than the cost of 1lb of powder in a 1lb container. The powder is stored in a climate controlled area. I also purchase powder in 1lb containers when 8lb containers are not available.

A conservative estimate over the last 25Yrs, 130,000 reloaded combined rounds of 45ACP and 9mm-Luger have been loaded employing Unique and or W231 with no noted problems.

 

[spitballer]

a few (to 5-6) years pass, the same volume of powder is a bit lighter. Kind of like it dried out a little...

This might well be worth investigating, if moisture content affects burn rate. In lieu of specific information on moisture content I've always kept my powder bin at 15-20% humidity with a can of damp-rid, but like anything else I suppose it could be overdone. For all I know a large cigar humidor at 70% might even work better. Just don't keep your smokes in the same humidor unless you want your Dominican wrappers to smell like crushed ping-pong balls.

 

[BSA1]

Because I couldn't find 8# jugs of powder, I bought 16 1# jugs, all of the same lot number.

My question is:
Do you think it might be a better idea to buy powder like this in the future, especially if you intend to load batches of only a couple hundred at a time?

No I don't.

Recycle your 1# containers. Save the !# containers after they are empty (assuming they are plastic or rust free if metal). Buy your powder in bulk (4 or 8#) and pour the powder into the 1# containers.

 

[VoodooMountain]

Crap. Now you tell me. I hate those darned facts. I've always stored my powder in my shed. Now I find out that all those thousands and thousands of rounds that I've fired over the last few years loaded with primers and powder that I bought in the 1980's were bad.

Does this mean that the deer will come back to life or the holes in the paper targets will seal up?

That really surprises me. Was it stored in the shed since you bought it?
Maybe there are certain powders that hold up better?
I saw a can of 4320 and another can that I have since forgotten go bad stored that way.

 

[berettaprofessor]

Just don't keep your smokes in the same humidor unless you want your Dominican wrappers to smell like crushed ping-pong balls

That's an odd comparison. Don't believe I've ever smelled crushed ping-pong balls before....

 

[SwaneeSR]

For the powders I buy in 8lb jugs I save a 1lb bottle of the same powder for use at the bench. I fill the 1lb bottle and use it so I don't have to open the big bottle a lot. I feel it stays fresher that way. Yes, I cross out the lot number on the 1lb bottle lol...

+1

Easier to handle.


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[spitballer]

crushed ping-pong balls...

Get a good whiff of IMR 8208XBR some time... smells exactly like ping-pong balls, not kidding!

 

[Reefinmike]

Get a good whiff of IMR 8208XBR some time... smells exactly like ping-pong balls, not kidding!

I could see the pingpong ball smell in powder. Some people look at me like im crazy when I mention smelling static electricity(actually ozone) or ladybug smell.

 

[mmorris]

I have always considered Ping-pong balls to be odorless, but then I haven't done any testing.

What do ping-pong balls smell like, other than smokeless powder ?

 

[Dudedog]

Ah something that meters worse than Unique.....Ping pong balls.

Sorry just couldn't help myself.
Unique does shoot well though.

 

[spitballer]

like im crazy when I mention smelling static electricity(actually ozone) or...

...ozone's distinctive, for sure. I run an ozonizer which does a great job of consolidating air particles and making them stick to the A/C air filter, but I normally I turn the thing off when I'm reloading in the same room because I'm unsure of the effect of ozone on rifle propellant: it's pretty gnarly...

 

[Slamfire]

My thinking is that over an extended period, the other unopened jugs will stay fresh, and are of the same lot number, and won't get lighter, over time, as an open 8# jug would.

The shooting and reloading community get their primary information from Gunwriters who are not technically educated. There are no educational requirements to be a gunwriter and the vast majority of them maybe have a French degree. They are also not in the business of education, they are in the business of sales. The shooting industry is not interested in educating the public about problems with ammunition because it is far more profitable to keep you fat, dumb, and happy. If you learned that gunpowder has a shelf life, and therefore ammunition has a shelf life, you the consumer might get picky. You might not pay full price for 10, 20, year old ammunition and gunpowder.

Lacking technical commentary what I have seen is an interesting drift from good advice given long ago. That is gunpowder should be stored in a cool and dry place. Over time this has morphed into weird ideas such as gunpowder will last forever if the containers are never opened.

Whether or not you open your jug of gunpowder, it is still breaking down. Gunpowder is a high energy compound that was breaking down to a low energy compound from the day it was made. As I have written in other posts, the primary enemy to gunpowder is heat. Exposure to temperatures over 86 F will accelerate the deterioration of gunpowder. Exposure to ions will deteriorate gunpowder. Air has lots of covalent molecules called water and that oxygen atom on the end reacts with gunpowder, just as an ionic molecule will. Therefore, keeping gunpowder dry is a good thing. Won't slow gunpowder deterioration but will not accelerate the rate of deterioration.


I have written extensively on old, deteriorated gunpowder. While the collective shooting community is in denial about this, old gunpowder gets dangerous with age for a number of reasons. These are threads which I provided information on old gunpowder and old ammunition.

Old Powder Caused Fire!
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=788841


Old powder

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=787843


Shelf life of reloads?

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=758305


Look at the pictures in this thread:


Has anyone else had Vihtavuori N140 corrode in loaded ammo?

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3745264

The green corrosion inside the brass cases came from nitric acid gas outgassing from old deteriorated gunpowder. This nitric acid gas also attacks the brass causing case splits. When the corrosion is extreme it will cause pin hole through corrosion of the case. I have seen all of these.

Gunpowder lifetime is unpredictable, a rule of thumb is 20 years for double based, 45 years for single based. Some fails sooner. Hardly any gunpowder is safe past 45 years. Old gunpowder in bulk will autocombust. In my opinion, keeping gunpowder in small containers is probably safer than bigger containers. Autocombustion is an undesirable event, but maybe if one of those small containers auto combusts, the chance of the house burning down around you is less than if a kegger goes off. Who knows? and regardless, big keg, little pounder, if one goes off it is all bad.

People post pictures of their WW2 powder, kegs that they have stored in their house, nicely sealed against the air, and therefore, it will last forever. They are wrong. I hope they don't wake up to a house of flames.

 

[Fatelvis]

Wow.... I am speechless. Thanks for informing us Slamfire. I'm looking at stocking powder very differently now.

 

[45_auto]

That really surprises me. Was it stored in the shed since you bought it?
Maybe there are certain powders that hold up better?
I saw a can of 4320 and another can that I have since forgotten go bad stored that way.

Been stored in the shed since it was purchased. I've been trying to work my way through it over the last few years at times when it was hard to find ANY powder at all. Still have half a dozen or so of partial cans (1 lb) of various powders sitting in the drawer, I'll try to remember to take a look tonight to see what they are. Can't really remember the last time I bought 1 pound of powder, been buying the 8 pound jugs since the early 1990's when I got my Dillon 650.

 

[gojones]

Geezs, I have about 10 1lb. cans of powder in original containers from the late 70's early 80's and several thousand primers also. All stored in separate cabinets in a spare bedroom. I never once thought about self ignition. I cannot possibly store this safely in the garage. Heat and humidity. Some of the powder has never been opened. Mainly IMR in metal cans. Some H380, H414, H205 and W760 and W231 in those cardboard cans. Mainly rifle which I just don't shoot much anymore.