Powder selection choices and substitution reality for 2024

CarJunkieLS1 said:
I can't believe powder prices today.
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I can. Unless you live in a cave with wolves or something, EVERYTHING is more expensive. Everyone complains about the cost of reloading components, and while I agree on the general idea of it... I don't like spending more money than I have to... this is not 2020, 2010, or, gads... 1980. For that matter, the days of the $250 S&W revolver is over, as is $1 primer trays, and $10 bags of shot, etc, etc, etc, ad nauseam. Welcome to 2024.
 
I always chose Alliant powders first until this recent shortage and price increase. I am now in process of replacing ALL Alliant powders because of their very poor availability and because they are now more expensive than VV powders! I will never buy another Alliant powder. Just my personal thing, their products are great, but I'm taking this personally. I don't wish or want to convince anyone else to do the same.

Bullseye - I have enough to last and will not need to replace.
2400 - replaced with AA#9
BE-86 - I have enough to last and will not need to replace.
RL16 - going to replace soon with H4350
Herco - will replace with AA#5
Unique - will replace with Universal
RL26 - replaced with IMR 7828SSC
MP300 - replaced with H110
Red Dot - Probably have enough to last

Edit: Ok I admit, if I went to the store today and they had RL16 or 2400 for the same price as the other available powders...I'd buy them, but only if they were the same or lower price!:)
 
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LiveLife said:
Anyone else going through powder selection choices/substitutions due to availability or price increase?
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Short answer no. Long answer is that I just started reloading about 5 1/2 years ago, and really got caught short on all components, not just powder, when covid and the shortages (of everything) hit. So I started stocking up as I found it over the last few years. I knew we were going to get hit with inflation and higher prices when the stimulus checks started getting mailed out. I put some money away, paid some bills, and stocked up more as I was able.

I'm currently stocked up for my shooting needs for the foreseeable future, and I'm not looking for anything else although I'll pick something up IF I see it at a decent price. I may put in a bullet order for 45acp but I really don't need to, just thinking about getting a few swc's because that's what I like to shoot and I'm down to my last 500 or so. I have plenty of fmj's and hollow points (which I don't shoot much of) so it's really a non issue to continue shooting.

I still have multiple powders to try on top of my normally used powders.

Charlie98 said:
Unless you live in a cave with wolves or something, EVERYTHING is more expensive.
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I nearly spit my beer out when I read this, thank you so much for the laugh! :rofl:

chris
 
I'm not at the point where I'm substituting but I am glad that I went ahead and bought powder last year, before I really needed it. I had mixed feelings, it it went down I was figuring on calling it dollar cost averaging much like buying into the stock market. It it went up I was going to be happy! I also just slipped in the purchase of 8# of 4350 before it went up. I was getting low on Unique but I made a trade with a buddy for some.
 
lightman said:
I'm not at the point where I'm substituting but I am glad that I went ahead and bought powder last year, before I really needed it. I had mixed feelings, it it went down I was figuring on calling it dollar cost averaging much like buying into the stock market. It it went up I was going to be happy! I also just slipped in the purchase of 8# of 4350 before it went up. I was getting low on Unique but I made a trade with a buddy for some.
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Unique seems difficult to truly replace.... I want to see if shooters world ultimate is close and a better deal. Never seen it....
 
AJC1 said:
Unique seems difficult to truly replace.... I want to see if shooters world ultimate is close and a better deal. Never seen it....
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Unique is universal; but Universal is not Unique.
Something my uncle used to tell me.

Try Universal, No.5, and WSF. There are quite a few loads where one of them performs about like Unique. AutoComp is in the same burn zone but it doesn’t act like Unique at all.
 
LiveLife said:
When I retired on 4th of July 2019, I thought several 8 lb jugs of W231/HP-38, Promo/Red Dot, Sport Pistol and BE-86 would take care of .380Auto/9mm/40S&W and 45ACP calibers I planned to reload into retirement. For .223/300BLK/.308, my choices were H335, A1680, H110/W296, H4895 and Varget. Fast forward to 2024 after gifting/paying it forward most of my powder stock during post Covid shortage, I have been able to source on a group buy No. 2, Titegroup, H335 and BL-C(2) most of which were PIF to others in desperate need for powder.

By now, I figured prices and inventory would somewhat return back to "normal" but war in Ukraine may have contributed to extension of shortage. And while inventory has improved with Alliant powders having been non-existent, perhaps affected by the sale of Vista Outdoor/Federal/CCI/Speer/Alliant Powders, they are becoming more available but my preferred Alliant powders like Promo, Bullseye, Sport Pistol, BE-86, AR Comp all have gone up in price.

No, I won't pay $60 for a pound ($479/8 lbs) of AR Comp even though it may produce smaller groups than Benchmark (Heck, even some VihtaVuori powders are cheaper than Alliant powders now). I have been wanting to try Benchmark for some time with report of group size smaller than H335 but it's now $367/8 lbs - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ad-link-required.910908/page-23#post-12806760

On a recent 3 county sweep, only powder I was able to find that I wanted to try was StaBall Match and I paid $59/lb ... Wow.

So ... I am getting ready to do another group buy to alleviate HazMat/shipping charges but I am having second thoughts about powder selection choices and considering substitution referencing same/comparable powders thread - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ble-powders-during-component-shortage.890865/

Pistol powders:
  • W231/HP-38 - I will keep it as general purpose reference pistol powder as 8 lb prices have been more reasonable than other popular powders
  • Promo/Red Dot - While I liked this powder for blowback action PCC loads, I am considering substituting with No. 2/Clean Shot (I have some No. 2 so I will do some testing before I place my powder order)
  • Sport Pistol - I already have Titegroup on hand and may consider going back to N320 if pricing is good enough
  • BE-86 - I replaced WSF with BE-86 and won't have any problem returning back to WSF for duplicate factory JHP practice loads
Rifle powders:
  • H335 - I will keep it as general purpose reference .223 powder as 8 lb prices have been pretty much lowest of all .223 powders
  • AR Comp - I was considering testing Benchmark but now open to testing A2460, 8208 XBR and TAC
  • H4895/Varget - While I am happy with both, issue is availability and pricing. BL-C(2) is more available at much lower pricing and recently picked up StaBall Match to test for .223 RMR 69/75 gr. Thinking about testing IMR 4064, A4064, N135, N140
Anyone else going through powder selection choices/substitutions due to availability or price increase?
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We have CFE Pistol, Titegroup, Autocomp and WSF for handguns, with H110 for subsonic 300Blk. We also have H335, TAC, Win760, AA2700, IMR 7828, H1000, and StaBall HD for rifles. Most of these have been pretty commonly stocked from most wholesalers or retailers. We are also trying to consolidate down bullets to only keep like a few weights for each caliber.
 
LiveLife said:
When I retired on 4th of July 2019, I thought several 8 lb jugs of W231/HP-38, Promo/Red Dot, Sport Pistol and BE-86 would take care of .380Auto/9mm/40S&W and 45ACP calibers I planned to reload into retirement. For .223/300BLK/.308, my choices were H335, A1680, H110/W296, H4895 and Varget. Fast forward to 2024 after gifting/paying it forward most of my powder stock during post Covid shortage, I have been able to source on a group buy No. 2, Titegroup, H335 and BL-C(2) most of which were PIF to others in desperate need for powder.

By now, I figured prices and inventory would somewhat return back to "normal" but war in Ukraine may have contributed to extension of shortage. And while inventory has improved with Alliant powders having been non-existent, perhaps affected by the sale of Vista Outdoor/Federal/CCI/Speer/Alliant Powders, they are becoming more available but my preferred Alliant powders like Promo, Bullseye, Sport Pistol, BE-86, AR Comp all have gone up in price.

No, I won't pay $60 for a pound ($479/8 lbs) of AR Comp even though it may produce smaller groups than Benchmark (Heck, even some VihtaVuori powders are cheaper than Alliant powders now). I have been wanting to try Benchmark for some time with report of group size smaller than H335 but it's now $367/8 lbs - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ad-link-required.910908/page-23#post-12806760

On a recent 3 county sweep, only powder I was able to find that I wanted to try was StaBall Match and I paid $59/lb ... Wow.

So ... I am getting ready to do another group buy to alleviate HazMat/shipping charges but I am having second thoughts about powder selection choices and considering substitution referencing same/comparable powders thread - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ble-powders-during-component-shortage.890865/

Pistol powders:
  • W231/HP-38 - I will keep it as general purpose reference pistol powder as 8 lb prices have been more reasonable than other popular powders
  • Promo/Red Dot - While I liked this powder for blowback action PCC loads, I am considering substituting with No. 2/Clean Shot (I have some No. 2 so I will do some testing before I place my powder order)
  • Sport Pistol - I already have Titegroup on hand and may consider going back to N320 if pricing is good enough
  • BE-86 - I replaced WSF with BE-86 and won't have any problem returning back to WSF for duplicate factory JHP practice loads
Rifle powders:
  • H335 - I will keep it as general purpose reference .223 powder as 8 lb prices have been pretty much lowest of all .223 powders
  • AR Comp - I was considering testing Benchmark but now open to testing A2460, 8208 XBR and TAC
  • H4895/Varget - While I am happy with both, issue is availability and pricing. BL-C(2) is more available at much lower pricing and recently picked up StaBall Match to test for .223 RMR 69/75 gr. Thinking about testing IMR 4064, A4064, N135, N140
Anyone else going through powder selection choices/substitutions due to availability or price increase?
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OMG here in LV you pretty much have to buy what you can get I have used IMR / Hodgdon 700X for 27 years for just about all my pistol cartridges I was even testing it in 9mm worked quite well 95% of my loads were built around this powder and for the magnum revolvers 357,44mag, I used 800X. Between the pandemic and most of the IMR powders being discontinued and other powders just not being available I currently have Bullseye, Titegroup, Silhouette, W244, American select, W296 , Blue Dot and Enforcer . I am almost out of BD which became my replacement for 800X but now I can’t find that at all tried Long Shot but really didn’t like it. I have never used this many different powders at one time so I am building all new loads with these powders to see what I settle on and hopefully can stay with and the price of some powders is just crazy. So far I like W244 , Enforcer, and American Select which is now non existent. I hope things get better but I don’t see it in the near future.
 
LiveLife said:
AR Comp - I was considering testing Benchmark but now open to testing A2460, 8208 XBR and TAC
H4895/Varget - While I am happy with both, issue is availability and pricing. BL-C(2) is more available at much lower pricing and recently picked up StaBall Match to test for .223 RMR 69/75 gr. Thinking about testing IMR 4064, A4064, N135, N140
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Natchez offered 10% off so I ordered TAC and more H335 to add to my stock - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ad-link-required.910908/page-23#post-12809906

I thought hard about getting Benchmark that I have been wanting to test due to small groups it produced on various accuracy reviews and even considered getting N133/A2495 (N135/N140 were out of stock); but in the end, decided H335/TAC/BL-C(2) that seem to be readily available at lower pricing for .223 55/62/69/75 gr 0.1 gr incremental powder workup using portable reloading setup with prepped and primed brass at the range.
 
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CaptHank said:
I've had great success using RL-15 for 0.223 and 0.308. I believe in feeding the LE-6920 and LR-308 from the same trough.
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Well, good luck with that going forward! Hope you bought a lot.😊

Not picking on you, you're just the straw and I'm the camel's back. I see this a lot over the last few years, and in the last "shortage" or whatever you call it. Haves and have nots. Some people must have infinite space and money to stack powder, or not shoot very much, or both. Then they come on a post and suggest an unobtainable powder. You'll see this a lot on CMP forums, some curmudgeon: "Just use Varget or H4895, they always work!"

I went into the present shortage in 2020 with 32 pounds of IMR4064, 48 pounds of Red Dot/Promo, 8 pounds of IMR 4350 (this lasts me a long time as its only a niche for me), 16 pounds of Varget and probably 32 pounds of random odds and ends for pistols, practice and experimentation. I've also added substitute standards along the way. I feel for many here, this would be a lifetime supply judging by the 1lb cardboard and metal cans I keep seeing. Short of converting my life savings and any available storage space into a powder/primer magazine, this is about the limit I can stock, which is roughly a 3-4 year supply without changing my shooting habits In 3 years, it has been Literally impossible to restock these in those quantities without paying gouger pricing. I admit, I did get behind on primers. I was about to do a big buy, then Covidmania started and caught me low on funds. I decided to buy non-perishable food instead of primers. Just my morning rant, don't take it personally!
 
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I started switching rifle powders over to Shooters World a few months ago. They have been consistently available locally and shoot as good as anything else I've tried. My most expensive and accurate rifle load is a 175 grain SMK with IMR 4064 powder, but I'm not willing to spend that much on ammo unless I start competing with someone besides myself. I am also looking for a replacement for Alliant 2400, though the replacement may just be to shoot lighter loads using other standard pistol powders instead of magnum recipes. Otherwise, Enforcer and AA#9 look like good candidates. I haven't thought about normal pistol replacements yet, but with the limited testing I've done for 9mm and 38 Special, I could move to TiteGroup and be content. Clean Shot from Shooters World is also on the list should it come to that.
 
I decided to invest in several lbs of powder recently for the cartridges that I reload (9mm, 38 Sp, 380, 32 H&R, and 45acp). I found a decent price on Ramshot Zip so that’s what I chose. I haven’t tried it yet but I understand its performance is similar to HP 38, which I have used.
 
Zendude said:
I decided to invest in several lbs of powder recently for the cartridges that I reload (9mm, 38 Sp, 380, 32 H&R, and 45acp). I found a decent price on Ramshot Zip so that’s what I chose. I haven’t tried it yet but I understand its performance is similar to HP 38, which I have used.
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@Walkalong is who mentioned Zip being close to W231/HP-38 more than a decade ago.

While I have not tried Zip, if I couldn't find W231/HP-38, I would not hesitate to substitute with Zip - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ble-powders-during-component-shortage.890865/

DMW1116 said:
started switching rifle powders over to Shooters World a few months ago ... normal pistol replacements yet, but with the limited testing I've done for 9mm and 38 Special, I could move to TiteGroup and be content. Clean Shot from Shooters World is also on the list should it come to that.
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Bullseye match shooting member @ljnowell tested Clean Shot with No. 2 and ended up replacing with Clean Shot for match loads (He eventually won league championship) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/looking-for-aa-2.796752/

DMW1116 said:
looking for a replacement for Alliant 2400, though the replacement may just be to shoot lighter loads using other standard pistol powders instead of magnum recipes. Otherwise, Enforcer and AA#9 look like good candidates.
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Looks like Accurate TCM and Ramshot Enforcer are right next to 2400 on the burn rate chart - https://hodgdonpowderco.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/updatedburnrateschart-1.pdf
 
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TCM is an interesting choice. I thought about trying some cast loads with it too but found other powders I already had at the time.
 
9mmepiphany said:
Not really substitutions as much as prioritization of powder I should have on hand.
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Me too.

For rifle I need to have Varget and H4895 on hand and I maintain a “healthy” inventory of each.

I’ll also keep N135 and N140 in some quantity for their versatility.

For pistol my needs are pretty simple. As long as I have HP38 I’m good
 
A number of Shooters World mentions above.

I have found SW Heavy Pistol to work well. It is at the right burn rate to be a good sub for 2400.

I am about to start using Lovex D-032 (same as SW Clean Shot). Quickload tells me it loads very similar to Titegroup. For most of my guns it will use 0.1 gr more powder and will end up with about the same case fill.
 
223 is my favorite caliber to experiment with. The bullet matters way more than the powder in my experience.

I've never tried AR Comp but I have had good success with 8208XBR and Shooters World Precision. Varget gets a lot of rave reviews, as well as RL15 and H4895.

For a ball powders, TAC and H335 works well, and I have heard 2520 is a good choice.

2230, along with some milsurp powders such as 844 and SMP735 have shot well in 55 FMJ plinking loads for me.

Lately I have been shooting N540 behind 69, 77, and 80 grain bullets as I picked some up for less than $30 lb.
 
Accurate and Hodgdon have done well to keep supplies flowing while Alliant seems to almost be out of the powder business.

The cost used to keep me out of the Vihtavouri stuff until now ... it's basically competitive these days and my N320 loads burn so clean the brass looks almost new after firing.

I got into N310 and N320 because you just can't get Red Dot or Green Dot anymore. Green Dot was around for about a minute back in September I think, but hasn't been seen since. I can't even remember that last time I saw RL-26 for sale.

If you're shooting 300MP, go immediately over to Brownell's and load up for $26.99/lb. It's been on sale over there for a while.
 
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For most of my regularly shot cartridges, I have back up loads developed with alternate powders. Does not necessarily help with cost but does help with availability.

With cartridges that I do not shoot much, I manage with what I have on hand.

Since the pandemic, I've not been reloading as much or shooting as much, but I do stock up when times are good.
 
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