power consumption of tumbler?
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Highland Ranger
Member
Need to look at the UL tag on your motor for wattage understanding that the tag data may be maximum numbers.
If you have a HP number, 1 HP = 746 watts
As a guess I'd say you are looking at 1/8 horse motor = 93 watts
= about a penny an hour to run i.e. not a huge part of your cost is my guess.
If you have a HP number, 1 HP = 746 watts
As a guess I'd say you are looking at 1/8 horse motor = 93 watts
= about a penny an hour to run i.e. not a huge part of your cost is my guess.
Jim Watson
Member
A friend had no problems with letting me cast bullets from his lead pot, but worried about the power consumption. I did the calculations and the next batch I cast, I handed him a quarter.
hmm... I don't have a UL tag on my Lyman. I know what you're talking about though...I think someone just pulled it off for whatever reason.
I think that it burns more than 93 watts. I'm thinking that the lights in my garage are 100 watt a piece.
I think that it burns more than 93 watts. I'm thinking that the lights in my garage are 100 watt a piece.
HuskerTanker
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UL tags are very conservative - I would be surprised if a device actually consumed the full nameplate rating. 60 to 80% is more likely.
If you really want to know, there's a doodad out there called a killawatt meter that plugs in inline with a device and measure the power. Don't get me started on true voltage, RMS voltage, etc...
The simplified equation for power is power (in watts) = voltage x amperage.
Your house will be 110 volts (at least the outlets that tumbler will plug into). A commercial building is probably 120 volts.
If you really want to know, there's a doodad out there called a killawatt meter that plugs in inline with a device and measure the power. Don't get me started on true voltage, RMS voltage, etc...
The simplified equation for power is power (in watts) = voltage x amperage.
Your house will be 110 volts (at least the outlets that tumbler will plug into). A commercial building is probably 120 volts.
Sistema1927
Member
This is a joke, right?
If you are really concerned, let me suggest that you let the kids roll a coffee can full of brass and media back and forth on the sidewalk. Tell them that it will result in ice cream, and they might just do this for hours before complaining.
If you are really concerned, let me suggest that you let the kids roll a coffee can full of brass and media back and forth on the sidewalk. Tell them that it will result in ice cream, and they might just do this for hours before complaining.
FieroCDSP
Member
Just don't leave it on for a week!!! Really, a few pennies a session. Computers suck up a lot more juice. 500 watt power supplies, figure they use about 420-460 of it at full tilt. That's nearly a kilowatt every two hours!! There's your bill right there. Turn off your comp when you run your tumbler and you'll save more cash.
I have a Lyman "Turbo" vibratory cleaner. I just metered it and it draws 0.85 amps. YAMV
The actual wattage is going to be a little more than the I*V=W formula would yield since the motors used in most cleaners are not purely resistive, they have a reactance component as well. Anyway, calling it all resistive would yield: 0.85 X 120VAC (my house voltage) = 102 Watts. IOW, I can run my cleaner for 10 hours for about a dime.
If you could get the kids to roll the can around for a few hours, the cost of the ice cream would be higher than the current used to run the cleaner for the same time.
(And the cases wouldn't come out clean - guaranteed.)
The actual wattage is going to be a little more than the I*V=W formula would yield since the motors used in most cleaners are not purely resistive, they have a reactance component as well. Anyway, calling it all resistive would yield: 0.85 X 120VAC (my house voltage) = 102 Watts. IOW, I can run my cleaner for 10 hours for about a dime.
If you could get the kids to roll the can around for a few hours, the cost of the ice cream would be higher than the current used to run the cleaner for the same time.
(And the cases wouldn't come out clean - guaranteed.)I think the Killawatt meter is the best bet...as my tumbler produces a lot of heat.
Good point on the computer power supplies. Last I checked, it cost me 60 cents a load to dry my laundry, that's just electricity. It's a frigidaire dryer and they listed the kilawatt consumption per load on the energystar sticker. I use the clothesline about 90% of the time, it also kills germs that a dryer just can't...not too mention the lack of ironing. off topic, sorry.
I know that a tumbler isn't a huge draw, but I'm trying to get a spreadsheet together of my exact costs, this way I can post portions of it when someone starts up the next "will reloading save me money?" thread, besides... it's kind of a neat historical record that I may look at in 20 years and say "wow, lead was darned expensive back in 2007!" I'm even depreciating my 45acp brass 5% per reloading session because that's how many either get lost at the range or get destroyed.
If anyone has a Kill-a-Watt meter, could they drop it on their tumbler next time they use it and tell me what they come up with as far as consumption?
I know, I've got way too much time on my hands.
Good point on the computer power supplies. Last I checked, it cost me 60 cents a load to dry my laundry, that's just electricity. It's a frigidaire dryer and they listed the kilawatt consumption per load on the energystar sticker. I use the clothesline about 90% of the time, it also kills germs that a dryer just can't...not too mention the lack of ironing. off topic, sorry.
I know that a tumbler isn't a huge draw, but I'm trying to get a spreadsheet together of my exact costs, this way I can post portions of it when someone starts up the next "will reloading save me money?" thread, besides... it's kind of a neat historical record that I may look at in 20 years and say "wow, lead was darned expensive back in 2007!" I'm even depreciating my 45acp brass 5% per reloading session because that's how many either get lost at the range or get destroyed.
If anyone has a Kill-a-Watt meter, could they drop it on their tumbler next time they use it and tell me what they come up with as far as consumption?
I know, I've got way too much time on my hands.
Sharps Shooter
Member
Nevermind. I forgot what I was going to say.
But it IS kilowatts - not "killawatts."
But it IS kilowatts - not "killawatts."
Whatever the sticker states, it's about 1/3-1/5 that while actually operating. The sticker indicates the maximum current draw, which for electric motors is at startup. At startup, an electric motor instantaneously draws 3-5 times the current of steady state operation.
This is why manufacturers claim a 5hp electric motor driven device, when it actually runs on a 15amp circuit, which is about two horsepower. 745.7W is one horsepower, which is a 6.8 amp draw at 110V. 5hp would be 34 amps, and would not work on a 15 amp circuit for steady state operation. It's a sales gimmick that all the manufacturers use because very few people understand or know this point about electric motors. I learned it in college taking an electrical power systems course in engineering or I would not know myself honestly. Being the current spike is nearly instantaneous, the circuit breaker does not blow because average house breakers have delayed tripping to off. Pull that current for more than 2-3 seconds, your breaker or fuse will blow. Like when my contractor model table saw stalls because I push it too hard, the breaker blows.
Please use these numbers accordingly for your tumbler to bring the math to its scale, which is much smaller. Beyond the numbers, an ammeter will give you the real numbers for your calculations and is likely the only way to know exactly how much power you're consuming. Load will vary by device and use, but a tumbler is pretty much steady state and does not have much load compared to power tools like circular saws and what not that you can widely vary the load on it simply by the way you choose to operate it. Horse down on it, and it'll draw more, go easy, and it sips current instead.
As stated for the tumbler, it's peanuts, seriously.
This is why manufacturers claim a 5hp electric motor driven device, when it actually runs on a 15amp circuit, which is about two horsepower. 745.7W is one horsepower, which is a 6.8 amp draw at 110V. 5hp would be 34 amps, and would not work on a 15 amp circuit for steady state operation. It's a sales gimmick that all the manufacturers use because very few people understand or know this point about electric motors. I learned it in college taking an electrical power systems course in engineering or I would not know myself honestly. Being the current spike is nearly instantaneous, the circuit breaker does not blow because average house breakers have delayed tripping to off. Pull that current for more than 2-3 seconds, your breaker or fuse will blow. Like when my contractor model table saw stalls because I push it too hard, the breaker blows.
Please use these numbers accordingly for your tumbler to bring the math to its scale, which is much smaller. Beyond the numbers, an ammeter will give you the real numbers for your calculations and is likely the only way to know exactly how much power you're consuming. Load will vary by device and use, but a tumbler is pretty much steady state and does not have much load compared to power tools like circular saws and what not that you can widely vary the load on it simply by the way you choose to operate it. Horse down on it, and it'll draw more, go easy, and it sips current instead.
As stated for the tumbler, it's peanuts, seriously.
I thought I did that for you. It wasn't only for my curiosity.davinci said:
Highland Ranger
Member
So my guess of 100ish watts based on an 1/8 horse motor was close . . . .
(its that four year degree - paying dividends every day!)
(its that four year degree - paying dividends every day!)
Mal H: so, you are certain it's 100 watts?
If so, I'll just multiply it by 4 hours per 500 pistol cases. Since I've been known to shoot about 2000 .45acp in a weekend, that's about 16 hours of tumbler time, or 16 cents.
It just doesn't sound right is all. 16 cents is all it costs to run a tumbler for 16 hours?
If so, I'll just multiply it by 4 hours per 500 pistol cases. Since I've been known to shoot about 2000 .45acp in a weekend, that's about 16 hours of tumbler time, or 16 cents.
It just doesn't sound right is all. 16 cents is all it costs to run a tumbler for 16 hours?
jr81452
Member
its right.
Sounds about right to me. Why not err on the high side and say it costs 20 cents.
The motors in most vibratory tumblers are not wattage hogs. It would be about the same as running a small personal sized fan for the same amount of time. (Or about two record turntables, not including the amplifier, receiver, etc.)
Things in your house that take most of your wattage are those things that change the temperature of something (A/C, heaters, stoves, fridges, HW heater, etc.). Everything else is essentially a rounding error on your monthly bill (assuming you don't leave lights and the TV, etc. on all the time.)
A little electrical usage quiz: Which costs more in electricity, shaving with a razor blade or shaving with an electric razor?
HuskerTanker
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I'll bite Mal,
Assumptions;
Gas fired hot water heater
Two 40 watt bulbs in sink area where shaving
Rechargeable electric shaver consuming 25 watts
Charger for electric shaver is 50% efficient
5 minutes to shave with a blade, shaving cream, hot water
3 minutes to shave with the electric razor, no water or cream
0.0067 Kwh consumed by the light in 5 minutes. Disregard air conditioning costs to remove the heat of the lights - too small to mess with and it might be a cold winter day...
Gas fired water heater so no measurable electrical usage for the hot water
0.0013 kWh consumed by the electric razor, need 0.0026 kWh to recharge it
Electric razor is cheaper, margin is wider if you have an electric hot water heater.
Am I close, or do I have too much free time on my hands?
Assumptions;
Gas fired hot water heater
Two 40 watt bulbs in sink area where shaving
Rechargeable electric shaver consuming 25 watts
Charger for electric shaver is 50% efficient
5 minutes to shave with a blade, shaving cream, hot water
3 minutes to shave with the electric razor, no water or cream
0.0067 Kwh consumed by the light in 5 minutes. Disregard air conditioning costs to remove the heat of the lights - too small to mess with and it might be a cold winter day...
Gas fired water heater so no measurable electrical usage for the hot water
0.0013 kWh consumed by the electric razor, need 0.0026 kWh to recharge it
Electric razor is cheaper, margin is wider if you have an electric hot water heater.
Am I close, or do I have too much free time on my hands?
FieroCDSP
Member
This post is officially sick. You people need jobs. Really, it's good to know that my practical knowledge, that puts me a ways above the commoner, is nothing compared to some of you folk. I am humbled...sorta.
You people need jobs. Really, it's good to know that my practical knowledge, that puts me a ways above the commoner, is nothing compared to some of you folk. I am humbled...sorta.
I know we're getting pretty far off topic here, but what the heck. We can stop any time, right?
However, the study I was thinking about (yes, there actually was a study on the subject) included the energy costs of manufacture for the blades, handles, shaving cream, and of course the hot water required vs the manufacturing energy and home elec. consumption of the electric shaver. The elec. shaver won by a huge margin. IIRC, the energy required to manufacture the shaving cream was the largest amount expended (included some petroleum usage).
Ok, now back to your regularly scheduled reloading topic.
True. I guess I should have said which uses more energy rather than electricity for you nit pickers out there.
However, the study I was thinking about (yes, there actually was a study on the subject) included the energy costs of manufacture for the blades, handles, shaving cream, and of course the hot water required vs the manufacturing energy and home elec. consumption of the electric shaver. The elec. shaver won by a huge margin. IIRC, the energy required to manufacture the shaving cream was the largest amount expended (included some petroleum usage).
Ok, now back to your regularly scheduled reloading topic.
Most vibratory tumblers use shaded pole induction motors.
The same type as used in a typical clock, can opener, (or a million other very small loads) but just a little larger.
100 W is probably generous.
Watts = amps x volts only works for a purely resistive load (like a light bulb or toaster).
Motors are inductive loads and have a nasty thing called power factor.
Small shaded pole motors have a lousy power factor.
The power rating from UL does NOT include the starting surge.
It does not last long enough to have any real effect on power even with a large motor since the power factor at that point is very low.
The same type as used in a typical clock, can opener, (or a million other very small loads) but just a little larger.
100 W is probably generous.
Watts = amps x volts only works for a purely resistive load (like a light bulb or toaster).
Motors are inductive loads and have a nasty thing called power factor.
Small shaded pole motors have a lousy power factor.
The power rating from UL does NOT include the starting surge.
It does not last long enough to have any real effect on power even with a large motor since the power factor at that point is very low.
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