Power Pistol Alternatives

[Charlie98]

Maybe it's not selling well.

Because W244 was intended as the green replacement to W231, I think the legion of followers W231 has will continue with W231 until it is discontinued. I tried W244 in 9mm and .45ACP, and while it did OK, it was not stellar in any respect. Like you and the others, I had to redline the load to get anywhere near the published velocity. In fact, I went considerably over published data... and still couldn't reach published data.

 

[Lennyjoe]

I’ve been migratory towards BE-86 and Longshot for most of my pistol loads lately

 

[BBarn]

BE-86, CFE Pistol, Silhouette, #5, HS6, True Blue, Unique, and Universal, are powders similar in burn rate to PP. For those calibers, I'd probably try the powders above in the approximate order listed.

But if you don't mind the flash, PP is tough to beat overall. I'd probably just pay the extra and stick to it. If you find a powder that works for you for $10 less a pound, how much would you save per year?

 

[Charlie98]

If you find a powder that works for you for $10 less a pound, how much would you save per year?

I've actually come to that conclusion meself, albeit with rifle powders... specifically, IMR. Yea, they cost more, but the ease of use and results offset that. It's quite hard to give up something that works so well, and then waste time and money hunting around for a 'less expensive' replacement... although these days, I understand the 'availability' part might force your hand.

I tried that when I was looking for a replacement powder for Unique, specifically in 9mm and .45ACP. After all that time and money, trying different powders, different loads, and all those components... I came right back to Unique. I'm still going through therapy to deal with my guilt for trying to abandon Unique...

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Wap is now Silhouette

+1
Silhouette is WAP with an additional flash suppressor.

For all things listed in the higher velocity range, Silhouette is a good option. Be careful with it in the tiny .380 cases. I have not found it (or WAP) to react well to compression.

Also look at AutoComp. It’s a good all around alternative that works well for smaller applications like .380 and 9Mak. It’s gassy (designed for compensator equipped handguns) but clean and lower flash.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I think the legion of followers W231 has will continue with W231 until it is discontinued. I tried W244 in 9mm and .45ACP, and while it did OK, it was not stellar in any respect.

In your experience, is W244 as temperature sensitive as W231 is

 

[Charlie98]

In your experience, is W244 as temperature sensitive as W231 is

That I can't answer. My testing was done either indoors (climate controlled) or out in NV when the temperatures would have been moderate (think 70-90F)

What I did notice was it liked pressure... not unlike WST. My initial ladders were done with bullets seated at or near max COL... to get a feel for how the powder is working, and then shortening the COL to improve burn and/or accuracy. I have several entries where I noted 'try shorter COL,' very likely because of poor velocity readings.

For example, with the RMR PSWC... 6grn W244, seated to 1.245", gave poor SD but fair velocity. Shortening the COL to 1.23" didn't increase the velocity, but tightened up the SD, and improved the accuracy.

 

[JJFitch]

For you cartridges, Power Pistol is one of the best for maximum velocities, but as noted that comes at a steep price.

Of your cartridges, 9mm is a good choice for evaluating your options with Quickload. If you want something very similar and are willing to drop down just a little in velocity, try something from the QL table below. They all perform about the same and use similar charges at the same performance.

However, for mid range loads I would personally recommend going a little faster. Any of the following powders will cost less per pound and use less powder per round than Power Pistol:

Titegroup,
Clean Shot
Win 231
HP 38
Ramshot Zip

Cartridge          : 9 mm Luger (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .356, 120, LEE 356-120-TC
Useable Case Capaci: 8.622 grain H2O = 0.560 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.075 inch = 27.31 mm
Barrel Length      : 4.0 inch = 101.6 mm

C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Ramshot Silhouette                  82.4      5.7     0.37    1150    96.2    30277    5140   0.434  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester WAP                      82.7      5.7     0.37    1150    96.0    30317    5145   0.434  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant POWER PISTOL                97.0      6.1     0.40    1150    81.5    27598    5811   0.448
Vihtavuori N350                    104.7      6.1     0.39    1150    91.8    29392    5303   0.435
Accurate No.5                       74.6      6.1     0.40    1150    86.3    29716    5441   0.436
Shooters World Auto Pistol          74.7      6.1     0.40    1150    86.3    29726    5443   0.436
Vihtavuori 3N37                    100.7      6.2     0.40    1150    91.3    28962    5404   0.441
Hodgdon Longshot                    78.2      6.2     0.40    1150    91.3    29967    5301   0.436  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot True Blue                   77.0      6.2     0.40    1150    91.5    30426    5246   0.434  ! Near Maximum !

Great post showing the relative charge weights and velocities/pressures for popular powders for heavier bullets and safer pressures!

 

[slowr1der]

Thanks all! It seems like BE-86 is going to be closest to what I want. It's quite a bit cheaper, but now I just have to find it in stock. Sportsman's Warehouse lists it quite a bit cheaper than PV, but they are out of stock locally. Neither Cabela's or any of the other places I've checked have had it either. I'm going to try to find some locally if I can. PV's prices seem to have gotten way higher than local prices before you add in their shipping and hazmat fees. Which is weird, because they used to always be significantly cheaper.

 

[geo57]

Thanks all! It seems like BE-86 is going to be closest to what I want. It's quite a bit cheaper, but now I just have to find it in stock. Sportsman's Warehouse lists it quite a bit cheaper than PV, but they are out of stock locally. Neither Cabela's or any of the other places I've checked have had it either. I'm going to try to find some locally if I can. PV's prices seem to have gotten way higher than local prices before you add in their shipping and hazmat fees. Which is weird, because they used to always be significantly cheaper.

As I type this Natchez shows it is in stock and the 8 lb. jugs are on sale at a great price. We got ours at PV but paid about $75 more a couple months ago. At the time it was the cheapest there.

As my stock of Unique dwindled I decided on BE-86. I use it for my circa 1873 ballistics .45 Colt load and my mid range .357 mag. load. I recently tested both and for now am more than happy with it.

 

[Alliant Reloading]

Nope, that's be-86

BE-86 is not rebranded Power Pistol, so please don't propagate this incorrect information.
Power Pistol is slower burning and does not contain flash suppressant, and the BE-86 is slightly faster burning and does contain FS. This results in different charge weights for the two powders in any given application. While the burn speeds are not all that different, the BE-86 will yield higher pressures at Powder Pistol max charges, so treat them as different powders.
For the OP, BE-86 is your clear answer if you like Power Pistol. I have come to like it better for it's efficiency, and I was a Power Pistol lover previously.
Shoot well,
Paul

 

[AJC1]

BE-86 is not rebranded Power Pistol, so please don't propagate this incorrect information.
Power Pistol is slower burning and does not contain flash suppressant, and the BE-86 is slightly faster burning and does contain FS. This results in different charge weights for the two powders in any given application. While the burn speeds are not all that different, the BE-86 will yield higher pressures at Powder Pistol max charges, so treat them as different powders.
For the OP, BE-86 is your clear answer if you like Power Pistol. I have come to like it better for it's efficiency, and I was a Power Pistol lover previously.
Shoot well,
Paul

Sounds like you said the same thing.... apparently somewhere I said used the same load data apparently getting more power pistol on the shelf isn't the companies best answer... or just make it affordable again...

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

BE-86 is not rebranded Power Pistol, so please don't propagate this incorrect information.
Power Pistol is slower burning and does not contain flash suppressant, and the BE-86 is slightly faster burning and does contain FS. This results in different charge weights for the two powders in any given application. While the burn speeds are not all that different, the BE-86 will yield higher pressures at Powder Pistol max charges, so treat them as different powders.
For the OP, BE-86 is your clear answer if you like Power Pistol. I have come to like it better for it's efficiency, and I was a Power Pistol lover previously.
Shoot well,
Paul

Thanks for the response.

In the comparable powders thread (https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-powders-under-different-labels.797388/page-5) BE-86, Unique and Power Pistol are listed as having similar capabilities but different loading data and only similar performance within their respective loading ranges.
Is there a closer comparison to PP than either of those and does Alliant recommend Unique as a replacement/substitute for PP using Unique data?

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

I know a guy with an 8 pound of IMR SR4756.

On several burn charts it shows up just faster than Power Pistol, just slower than HS-6. And, it's flash-suppressed.

Just saying...

 

[Alaskamike]

Sounds like you said the same thing.... apparently somewhere I said used the same load data apparently getting more power pistol on the shelf isn't the companies best answer... or just make it affordable again...

Paul actually said something completely different than you, but more professionally and without all the weird laughing emojis.

BE86 and Power Pistol are very clearly different powders with different data. You are in fact the first person I have ever seen to claim that they are the same.

I would reiterate Paul's request that you stop doing that.

 

[Alaskamike]

Thanks for the response.

In the comparable powders thread (https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-powders-under-different-labels.797388/page-5) BE-86, Unique and Power Pistol are listed as having similar capabilities but different loading data and only similar performance within their respective loading ranges.
Is there a closer comparison to PP than either of those and does Alliant recommend Unique as a replacement/substitute for PP using Unique data?

While I would also strongly recommend BE-86, if you can't find it you might look at Accurate #5 or #7.

 

[9mmepiphany]

While I would also strongly recommend BE-86, if you can't find it you might look at Accurate #5 or #7.

If you're looking for Accurate #5 or #7, you could also look at the Shooters World powders Auto Pistol or Major Pistol, respectively

 

[243winxb]

Win 244's suggested velocities seem almost exaggerated

Seems so in 357 mag with 6 grs 244 & 163 gr cast bullets. The recoil is nothing like 13 grs Alliant 2400. Seemed better in 9mm Luger.
No chronograph to check bullet speed.

Said to be a Mid-Range powder.
I shoot cast. The copper reducer will just make more dirt. @ $25 a pound, had to buy 10 lbs.

Winchester WinClean 244 is a ball powder developed for medium handgun loads. It is ideally suited to 38 Special, 45 Auto, and 9mm standard loads. Consistency, low flash, and a broad range of applications make this powder a choice for any handgun cartridge loader. Since it is a ball powder, it features precise metering. And with the WinClean additive, this powder is cleaner burning and reduces copper fouling.

 

[Soonerpesek]

With all this high talk of BE-86, I might just have to pull a Markie-Mark and buy a keg just to say I did............................................ ................................sounds like good stuff........

 

[243winxb]

BE-86

https://www.midsouthshooterssupply....nt-be-86-smokeless-pistol-powder-8-lb?Tk=DFPO

In stock. $329.99

 

[Charlie98]

Power Pistol is slower burning and does not contain flash suppressant, and the BE-86 is slightly faster burning and does contain FS.

I would reiterate Paul's request that you stop doing that.

Back when BE-86 was released, it was opined that BE-86 was, essentially, just PowerPistol with FS... because people were trying to find a place to pigeonhole it against other powders. I don't think anyone suggested using PowerPistol data for BE-86, at least anywhere that I ever read. It's nice that Paul stopped in and clarified what most of us already know... that they are indeed two different powders, and do not share data.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Back when BE-86 was released, it was opined that BE-86 was, essentially, just PowerPistol with FS... because people were trying to find a place to pigeonhole it against other powders. I don't think anyone suggested using PowerPistol data for BE-86, at least anywhere that I ever read. It's nice that Paul stopped in and clarified what most of us already know... that they are indeed two different powders, and do not share data.

I don’t think any harm was meant by either party. Rumors spread faster than facts these days. It’s good to be cautious.

 

[dartor]

With all this high talk of BE-86, I might just have to pull a Markie-Mark and buy a keg just to say I did............................................ ................................sounds like good stuff........

I'm on my second 8 pounder. Works great in all the pistol and revolver calibers I load for.

Natchez

www.natchezss.com

$229.99

 

[9mmepiphany]

I'm on my second 8 pounder. Works great in all the pistol and revolver calibers I load for.

Natchez

www.natchezss.com

$229.99

Yup, save $100 over what Midsouth is charging...also if you're spending over $99.99...Free HazMat for two days using code FH240212

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Tightgroup Tiger, I’ve had the exact same experience. BE-86 usually produces velocities 75-80 fps higher than published in my .45 Colt revolvers, whereas WIN 244 typically runs 75 fps slower. No doubt there’s variation between calibers and guns but overall my experience has mirrored yours. It doesn’t bother me, though, and with so many powders now going for $45/lb, spending $30 on WIN 244 and getting 1000 rounds out of it is mighty welcome. Back to the OP’s question though, I still find BE-86 to behave most similarly to Power Pistol, with about half the flash.

I agree on all counts.