How far down the barrel does the Universal powder burn? Can Gordon's Reloading Tool tell me that?
Pressure v. Velocity
- Thread starter jski
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"But tell me the advantages to using Universal v. H110. Why would I prefer Universal over H110? "
If all you want is maximum velocity loads with relatively heavy bullets you would not want Universal over H110.
However if you want a range of milder loads with almost any bullets then H110 will not do any of that and you would require Universal or a similar powder. You cannot download H110.
Universal will make soft loads. So will a bunch of other powders. I doubt if you can buy any Universal right now. HP38 works well.
If all you want is maximum velocity loads with relatively heavy bullets you would not want Universal over H110.
However if you want a range of milder loads with almost any bullets then H110 will not do any of that and you would require Universal or a similar powder. You cannot download H110.
Universal will make soft loads. So will a bunch of other powders. I doubt if you can buy any Universal right now. HP38 works well.
Fortunately I have plenty of both. I thought I could use the Universal for some “creampuffs” for my brother’s S&W 41 then I noticed to curious reloading data I mentioned originally. And that got me thinking.
Humans think linearily, and therefore are unable to really understand what is going on with the pressure curve of gunpowder, because the slope of the curve is exponential.
Dr Al Bartlett is best known for stating that "The Greatest Shortcoming of the Human Race Is Man’s Inability To Understand the Exponential Function"
from What Does Exponential Growth Feel Like?
It’s easy to predict where you’ll end up after 30 linear steps (30 meters away).
But if I asked you to predict where you’ll be in 30 exponential steps — where an exponential is a simple doubling... 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, and so on — it gets harder.
In 30 exponential steps you’ll be a billion meters away – put differently, you’ll circumnavigate the Earth 26 times!
Dr Al Bartlett is best known for stating that "The Greatest Shortcoming of the Human Race Is Man’s Inability To Understand the Exponential Function"
from What Does Exponential Growth Feel Like?
It’s easy to predict where you’ll end up after 30 linear steps (30 meters away).
But if I asked you to predict where you’ll be in 30 exponential steps — where an exponential is a simple doubling... 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, and so on — it gets harder.
In 30 exponential steps you’ll be a billion meters away – put differently, you’ll circumnavigate the Earth 26 times!
Isn’t Universal a Clays derivative?
Negative.
"Universal" and "Clays" are totally different powders. .
The confusion arose years ago with (IMHO) absolutely terrible labeling on the part of the distributor.
See https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/universal-clays-vs-hogdon-clays.735091/#post-9208743
"Universal" and "Clays" are totally different powders. .
The confusion arose years ago with (IMHO) absolutely terrible labeling on the part of the distributor.
See https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/universal-clays-vs-hogdon-clays.735091/#post-9208743
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Lee Q. Loader
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I just saw this thread for the first time this morning. I'm just commenting to say this is the best, most informative thread I've ever read on THR! Thank you to all who took the time to write such great informative posts.
GeoDudeFlorida
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No. This is not entirely true. Consider a missile which ejects no projectile, only high-velocity gases, yet still accelerates into orbit.
No, "wear" is far too loose a term to use. It's practically meaningless when discussing a machine. Dry-firing wears the firing pin, trigger bearing surfaces, hammer, safety, cylinder pin, and all of the associated parts. Pressure and heat are not in the equation, but wear is taking place. "Stress" is maybe a better word and....
...peak pressure, wave fronts, heat, corrosion, particle acceleration, gaps, fitment, and hundreds of other end-points for stress in the mechanism respond to high-velocity gases are stress the metal. Stress is not necessarily wear, though. It's difficult to quantify because steels are elastic. What you would need to try and measure is the cumulative breakdown of the elasticity of the metal.
The factors to consider are gas volume liberation, heat transfer during deflagration, gas expansion velocity under pressure, burn rate under pressure(which is different from burn rate in open atmosphere), and chemical constituency - among a FEW of the MANY factors to consider.
You REALLY!!! REALLY!!! need to think hard about WHY smokeless powders are predominantly - but not exclusively - nitrocellulose and NOT exclusively nitroglycerin. It's a BIG FRIGGIN' DEAL and until you wrap your head around that one, simple FACT of modern ballistics, you will NEVER understand why some powders are really good for close-range revolver target shooting, others are dangerous but useful in high-velocity applications like hunting, and some powders are no good in a revolver at all but work really well in self-loading pistols.
AJC1
Member
Exactly why people can't understand the distances of space.
Gordon is awesome... For us poor southern boys anyway... It puts everything together and helped me understand everything as a whole... the big picture so to speak... Nothing's perfect but it's an awesome place to start... And learn about internal AND external ballistics... You can readily change numbers and get the "theoretical" change... The program can't know everything about your environment and equipment but it still gives pretty darn accurate output... "Garbage in garbage out..." Safety and checking your work is always best... Much damage is done by the "garbage in" part... As in you and I...
Change the barrel length in the data and you'll eventually see/get an estimated "100%" of burn out...
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Got me, I was looking for Clays at the gunshow, found a can that said Universal Clays. Not Clays technology, but Universal Clays. So I purchased it, found later, it was not the powder I wanted.
Swampman
Old Fart
Target grade .22 Long Rifle out of a 3 pound pistol kicks too much for him?
Swampman
Old Fart
YEP!
"Clays"
"Universal Clays"
And don't forget "International Clays"!
I wonder if Hodgdon ever got their butts sued behind that stupid BS?
I called it "Universal Clays" on this very forum and was immediately lampooned for having done so! I was informed it's just "Universal".
.45Coltguy
Member
As MEHavey said, they are not the same. Lousy labeling info form Hodgdon on that . As Slamfire found out.
Regardless of what you choose to call it, Universal is a Clays derivative.
.45Coltguy
Member
Really? Well, Ok.
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