Primer vs. Primer vs. Primer

[Lekes]

I'm fairly new to reloading and have been mostly reloading pistol loads. I would like to load some rifle loads for hunting....30-06 and 308. I have no Large Rifle primers but I have the opportunity to get some at a local auction. I have 3 different manuals and they call out Winchester WLR, CCI 200/250/#34, Remington 9-1/2, or Federal 210 depending on bullet type and powder and depending on manual. But with powder being difficult to find, I have limited options. My questions is...are brands of large rifle primers (not magnum) interchangeable? If one of my books calls for X brand powder (and I have it) with Y type bullet, can I safely use any of the large rifle (not magnum) primers?

 

[Jdague12]

Yes. What they note in the different books is what they used to test with

 

[AJC1]

They all have different cup thickness, Brazilance and a small diameter difference if you really get picky. Getting started I doubt any of it will make an observational difference. Gets some and get started.

 

[Demi-human]

Get some and get started.

I concur wholeheartedly!

The differences only show once you’ve had experience with enough of them.
For less stringent accuracy standards, and with safe practices of working back up whenever a component is changed, primers of the same category but differing brand name are for all intents interchangeable.

 

[sparkyv]

I too, agree:

I doubt any of it will make an observational difference. Gets some and get started.

 

[Slamfire]

Start with mid level loads and you won't have any pressures issues with any make of primer. It is not until reloaders try maximize loads do they find out, there are differences between primers. I do not know of any test data showing that one primer brand is "hotter" than any other. All we have is anecdotal reports. And the variances noted may be due to the variance in primer composition and production at the factory. Primer cake is mixed by hand, so primer cake is not 100% homogeneous. Ingredients have plus or minus allowances, and ingredients vary in purity. None of that is visible to the user, we know nothing about primer characteristics other than they go bang. We don't have test data showing primer flame, primer dwell, primer sensitivity, temperature of the primer cake being blown out, mass of primer cake ignited, etc, etc. So, we reloaders are rather easily bamboozled by industry. And industry loves keeping consumers stupid. As Noam said: "the purpose of advertising is to create ill informed consumers who make irrational choices"

I do know, change primers with a maximum load, be it the same brand but different lot, or a different brand, and bad things have happened.

There are sensitivity differences between primer brands. As a rule, Federals are more sensitive, which is great for bolt guns, but don't use them in gas guns. Unless you like slamfires.

 

[halfmoonclip]

AJC1, that word is 'brisance', and autocorrect helped you out.
For the OP, good advice here, and as long as you stay away from balls-to-the-wall loads (there's no compelling reason to go for velocity bragging rights); see what groups well.
There has been some discussion about substituting rifle primers for pistol ones; the consensus seems to be that will work, but the reverse (pistol in rifle) is not true.
Moon

 

[Lekes]

Thank you all for your input!

 

[Random 8]

They are generally interchangeable in size. Not necessarily in load data. You can absolutely use a different primer than tested, but you must add a layer of caution in working up your loads. Winchesters are generally considered the "hottest," but this is not an absolute rule in pressure change. Interior ballistics are funny that way. We want to make things linear for our minds to process, and ballistics just refuse to step in line.

Buy whichever you can get the best deal on, and proceed with caution in your load development.

 

[AJC1]

AJC1, that word is 'brisance', and autocorrect helped you out.
For the OP, good advice here, and as long as you stay away from balls-to-the-wall loads (there's no compelling reason to go for velocity bragging rights); see what groups well.
There has been some discussion about substituting rifle primers for pistol ones; the consensus seems to be that will work, but the reverse (pistol in rifle) is not true.
Moon

My spelling is a trainwreck, been a life long issue. Of all the problems to have I'm not bent about it.

 

[kalielkslayer]

Working up a load, starting mid range or lower, looking for pressure signs, using different primers doesn’t make a difference.

But once you’ve developed a load that is super accurate, using the same brand and lot of primer is something I do. Same lot of powder too!

That’s why I usually buy primers and powder in bulk. I have primers and powder labeled for a certain gun/gun(s).

There is a lot of expensive developing a hunting load with premium bullets, starting over doesn’t make sense.

 

[lordpaxman]

Like the others have said, LR primers are interchangeable for the loads you see in your books. If the book specifies LR magnum, best to follow that advice. I’m curious, what brand are you bidding on and do you need to take out a loan to satisfy the bid?

 

[Remington1911]

Like most said, LRP is basically interchangeable, when you get to something that works perfect however you are going to want to stay with just that, they are different, but the same....if that makes any sense.

As to your auction, I suggest if you are able to inspect. With the shortages now all kinds of stuff is coming out of the wood work, if it looks like it is factory sealed in a fresh box ok.....if not I would shy away. Also if it looks like it was made in the last 30 years it would be a plus. Just saying old and questionable stuff is being sold off.

 

[rdnktrkr]

I've found that when reloading 30-06 that none of my guns like the upper loads, my 2 Howas liked a little below middle weight with 2 powders and either 150gr or 168gr bullets, with 125gr I found a load at the bottom and a load at the top so I only load the lower loads for safety

 

[edwardware]

Primer brand matters very, very little, nothing are all like powder type. That said, there are differences that you will find as you push on accuracy limits or brass life.

To start, buy whatever primers you can find, and go burn them.

 

[JFrank]

I did a little primer testing a few years ago, noting that while each primer shot slightly different I felt that I could build a load around any with the exception of Remington 6.5.
Once distance is increased beyond this 300 yard sample I found that my set up had a preference as in the second photo attached below.

 

[Howa 9700]

Using different LR primers is discussed in all the Lyman reloading manuals I have. General perception is they are slightly different, but not enough to matter. But in list of primers mentioned by OP, an exception would be the CCI 34. Those are a magnum primer used in military ammo. Those are said to run hotter. In 308 loads in pull down LC brass with CCI 34 primer, I reduce my charge 1 full grain to allow for that.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Using different LR primers is discussed in all the Lyman reloading manuals I have. General perception is they are slightly different, but not enough to matter. But in list of primers mentioned by OP, an exception would be the CCI 34. Those are a magnum primer used in military ammo. Those are said to run hotter. In 308 loads in pull down LC brass with CCI 34 primer, I reduce my charge 1 full grain to allow for that.

According to CCI, the primer mix and cup shape are both a little different. Intended to give more nearly reliable ignition with ball powders in cold conditions, and such, etc., etc.

 

[mdi]

I'm fairly new to reloading

. More than likely, you won't notice any difference. Especially with "Reloading 101"; always start a load work up at min. powder charges and work up if necessary...

 

[Nature Boy]

Being that you’re just starting out and trying to come up with a safe and accurate hunting load, don’t sweat the minor differences between primer brands.

There will be plenty of time later to get sucked down into the accuracy black hole. Be warned however that once you cross that event horizon there’s no coming back

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm fairly new to reloading and have been mostly reloading pistol loads. I would like to load some rifle loads for hunting....30-06 and 308. I have no Large Rifle primers but I have the opportunity to get some at a local auction. I have 3 different manuals and they call out Winchester WLR, CCI 200/250/#34, Remington 9-1/2, or Federal 210 depending on bullet type and powder and depending on manual. But with powder being difficult to find, I have limited options. My questions is...are brands of large rifle primers (not magnum) interchangeable? If one of my books calls for X brand powder (and I have it) with Y type bullet, can I safely use any of the large rifle (not magnum) primers?

For the most part LR primers are LR primers but some are slightly "hotter" than others are will have slightly different burn durations. That has more to with accuracy and SD than anything else.

The primer mentioned in the load data is not a recommendation, they are only reporting which primer they used in developing the data for your reference. For example, Speer is owned by the same company who owns Federal and CCI so their data will usually use those brand primers. (Not always of course like when the data was developed before they were owned by the same company) I would not go directly to the max load when changing primers. It's just like when you change any component, drop back on the powder charge and work your way back up.

Again, the primer they tell you they used is not written in stone, only a report on who h they used.

 

[Remington1911]

Being that you’re just starting out and trying to come up with a safe and accurate hunting load, don’t sweat the minor differences between primer brands.

There will be plenty of time later to get sucked down into the accuracy black hole. Be warned however that once you cross that event horizon there’s no coming back

Nail on head.

I re skimmed and did not see see his use, if hunting then you need to push the bullet fast enough for it to do its thing. If you are just banging steel or using it as a hole punch I would start at the bottom of the load data and work your way up in .5 steps till you find a good spot for your rifle/bullet/powder combo.