Primers fell out while tumbling

[raddiver]

So my wife went through the 50 rounds of .380 i reloaded for her.
they were loaded about .3 grains above starting. There were no issues while firing.

I get the brass home and tumble them for about 2 hours to get ready for the next round of reloading. while pulling them out, i notice that some of the primers have fallen out. I didnt think too much about it other than "thats odd, none of my 9mm did that"

So they all go in the same bucket to get sized and deprimed. It wasnt until after they were all done that i decided i might want to investigate further.

So i have 2 questions:
1. What would cause the primers to fall out in brand new starline brass like that?
2. should i just chuck the cases i have now? (because now, there is no way for me to tell which ones they fell out of)

 

[NCsmitty]

Either the brass was not to spec when new, or you have a pressure issue with your load. You didn't state your powder and load info.

I would check a couple brass that had the problem, by installing a primer or two and see how it feels when priming. There should a little resistance seating the primers.

It's hard to determine where the problem actually comes from without more data.



NCsmitty

 

[raddiver]

they were loaded about .3 grains above starting.

For this load it equals 2.6 grains, on a 95gr lrn.

It wasnt until after they were all done that i decided i might want to investigate further.

So that makes checking the ones that had issues a non-option.

 

[dawico]

Maybe it is the primers? Reload them and pay special attention when you are priming them. You should be able to feel the ones that are not going to hold the primer. It may be the primers or the cases. I had some rifle rounds that did that. After two firings, two of the cases wouldn't hold a primer anymore. The rest of the cases haven't given me any problem since. As long as those are range rounds they should be fine. I definitely wouldn't use them for self defense, but I wouldn't use reloads for that anyway.

 

[Walkalong]

As posted, that should not happen. Either pressure caused the PP to expand, rendering the cases unsafe, or you have a bad batch of primers. (Unlikely, but anythings possible.)

Load?

 

[raddiver]

Load?

2.6 grains of bullseye with 95 grain cast

 

[jmorris]

(because now, there is no way for me to tell which ones they fell out of)

If they are loaded rounds just chunk them back into the tumbler for 15 minutes then cull out any missing the primers.

 

[raddiver]

No they are just sized and de-primed.
Interesting thought though. I could just prime them feel for any loose one, and then tumble the lot.

With or without media would be the next question. I wouldnt be adverse to doing them singly with no media if there would be any benefit to that.

 

[jmorris]

Almost all of the rounds I load go back into the tumbler to remove the lube (corn cob). Yes I even lube pistol cases in carbide dies and you would too if you tried it once. If there are any loose primers they come out. Personally I would not tumble just a primed case but once it’s finished nothing can get to the primer compound except gun powder and that has never been a problem.


If I had some that I thought would give me trouble and they were not loaded I would just recycle them instead of spending a lot of time on them.

 

[LiveLife]

raddiver, if the primers fell out during tumbling, then primer pockets are really loose.

To detect loose primer pockets of the deprimed cases, you could find/make a same diameter as primer "test rod" out of metal (nail) or wood (shaved pencil). If you get the diameter just right, you should be able to locate really loose primer pockets in short time.

To detect marginal/borderline loose primer pockets, you could identify them during hand priming (no resistance to priming) and mark the base with "X" to be culled into a separate batch to be shot at the range.

 

[rcmodel]

No Resistance during priming would go in the recycle box under my loading bench.

BTW: You have defective brass, or defective primers.
It would be impossible for excess presssure to expand the case head and cause loose primer pockets on a .380 ACP without blowing the gun up.

rc

 

[noylj]

It sounds like old brass or someone decided to ream the primer pocket to "uniform" the brass...

 

[raddiver]

Oddly these are brand new starline cases. I purchased these because i was told they were quality. Maybe i was misguided or just got a bad batch.

 

[rcmodel]

What does it feel like when you seat the primers??
You should be feeling some resistence when you seat them.

How are you seating them? Press primer? Hand priming tool?

What brand & type of primers are you using?
Maybe try another batch of primers?

If not the primers, I would call Starline and see if there are any known problems with a lot of .380 brass.

rc

 

[qajaq59]

I thought you were going to say they were range brass. But apparently they're new.
I'd either tumble them again, or else take an air hose and shoot it into the case to see if they come out again. Any that did, I'd toss out.

 

[raddiver]

I recall feeling resistance. While not alot, it was there.
Im still new obviously, so i dont know how right is supposed to feel. I know what average feels like. but not sure i could have picked out an odd ball seat, unless it was glaringly easy.

And before now, i didn't know that there were other issues with primers that could arise other than primers that went in upside down or sideways. But now that i know. . . . this will be less of an issue in the future. Im sure of it.

Im using the priming feature that came with my lyman press.
The primers are cci 500's

 

[ReloaderEd]

three grains of whatever is too much. I loaded 2.5 bullseye I think with 124 gr bullet.

 

[billybob44]

Loose primers?

Here is another idea==Cull out this batch of Starline brass. Load other new or 1 fired brass to get to know the "feel" of a correct primer seat. After that "feel" is acquired by you, go back to the Starline batch, and prime. If any feel easier than the others, punch back out the new primer and save for another case. Yes, you can reuse a new primer-just push out slow+steady out of the loose/defective case.
I would venture to say that the loose cases could still be used, if they were primed with Wolf small pistol primers, that are known to be a tight fit, as a rule.
I would save the "loose" Starline cases, and prime with the Wolf SP, myself.
Hope this helps....Bill.

 

[moosehunt]

If you really want to get to the bottom of this, then purchase a tool to tighten primer pockets (not expensive). Then, singularly, use the tool as prescribed, then load and fire the load. If you get a loose primer pocket again, then you either have too hot of a load (I'm not familiar with this cartridge) or--big possibility here--your balance is off. Check your balance for accuracy, not just precision. Big difference in those two. Accuracy is producing as stated (correct), precision is repeatability, producing the same results repeatably, even if not accurate (correct). Also, you are dealing with very small powder loads, thus very small variations (in regard to normal loading values) can quickly become significant. If your balance is off by 1% at 30 grains, that is 0.3 grains. That is 1% of the load. That same balance would be off by 0.5% if your load was 60 grains. (double, i.e. 100%). The accuracy doesn't change. It would be off by 2% of the load if it were a 15 grain load (50%). Again, the accuracy doesn't change. At 3 grains--where you are talking--that same balance is now off by 10% of your load. The accuracy did not change. Now we're talking significant! Now let's take another angle. Are you not weighing, but simply using a powder throw? A throw that is within 0.1 grain at 30 grains is pretty damn good. That's +/- 0.33%. But that same high quality throw that is within 0.1 grains at 3 grains is +/- 3.3%. Be assured, 0.3% is not significant, but 3.3% damn sure is! When dealing with these minute loads, accuracy is paramount, precision secondary (but still important).
This is all on the speculation that you have sound brass. Personally, I've used a huge amount of Starline brass, in several configurations, with no provblems. Best of luck--I'm anxious to hear the outcome.

 

[hancjamk]

When in doubt, throw the brass away... If a primer comes out during ejection and some how ends up in the action... Not likely, but possible. Than you have a small pipe bomb in your hand.

 

[raddiver]

ReloaderEd

three grains of whatever is too much. I loaded 2.5 bullseye I think with 124 gr bullet.

Im not sure where this came from. If you look at posts 3 and 6 you will see im using 2.6 of BE with a 95gr.
and 124 gr just seems like a big piece of lead for 380. I've heard of people doing 115, but not 124.
Edit: i just saw the thread on loading a heavyweight 380, so i guess people are doing it. I guess it's just not that common.

Billybob
I may just run with your idea. I'm assuming i dont have to work up a new load based on switch of primers from cci to wolf. Im not shooting for competition, just familiarity.

Moose
Thanks for the explanation. That sorta clicks. Alot of info to take in as im still very new to reloading.
I measure every charge with an RCBS chargemaster. I setup the throw that came with my Kit just to see how accurate it was. I was pretty impressed with what i saw out of 20+ throws. But for the time being, until i get used to the whole process, i'll continue to hand measure each one.

Hanc
that thought crossed my mind too. I purchased 500 cases so to chuck the few i have that are questionable is not a big deal.
and i may end up doing that in the long run just to be safe, but with all the suggestions that have been thrown up so far, i have a lot to play with and learn.