Private firearm transactions, what personal info on the receipts?

[Mike U.]

Title essentially says it all. I'm wondering what is proper form for that
all-important receipt in a private party transaction.
Do we put DL #'s on the receipt?
What form of ID should be asked for and provided by me(the seller)?

I know this should be a common sense thing, but, some forms of ID can be used to do naughty things. Like stealing your identity. Which, BTW, I'm still recovering from. Mine was stolen online because one of the many shooting supply places I dealt with stored my (and apparently other customer's) personal info like my account number, pin # and DL# in an online hackable computer.

This is a total CYA thing. I don't want officer friendly knocking on my door asking why a firearm registered to me was found at a murder scene two years after I sold it.

My apologies if this is an asinine question.

 

[kd7nqb]

Here is what I included in my last transaction

Date
Sellers Name
Buyers Name
Firearms Serial Number/ Make/ Model

Both peoples address and phone

sellers DL#

A little short paragraph saying that the buyer released me from all responsibilty, the gun was as is and that the buyer was able to legally purchase a firearm under both state and federal laws.

Might be able to dig up the form I used. I just googled something like FTF transfer form and found one that was pretty generic.

 

[Ala Dan]

kd7nqb has given you all the correct information, as nothing else
is needed. Be careful with your driver's license; up until just recently, my
home state of Alabama use to put your social security number on the
face of your D/L; for everyone too see~!

 

[Zen21Tao]

Legally: In Florida you don't need anything, even a receipt. Just money for gun.

Practically: kd7nqb's suggestion is great. All I would add is that you may want to have the buyer and seller both sign each copy and then you may want to mail your copy to yourself. This creates a legal date for future reference. For example, If, God forbid, you sell a gun to someone that ends up being used to commit a crime and the police end up at your door, you have a dated and sealed receipt that predates the crime.

 

[aka108]

Any firearms I dispose of are through a friend of mine who owns a gun shop. He charges 10 percent but the price he obtains is greater than what I would receive thru a totally private sale and the new buyer gets OK'ed thru the instant check program.

 

[rbernie]

This is a total CYA thing. I don't want officer friendly knocking on my door asking why a firearm registered to me was found at a murder scene two years after I sold it.

You have firearms registtration in FL?

 

[wally]

This is a total CYA thing. I don't want officer friendly knocking on my door asking why a firearm registered to me was found at a murder scene two years after I sold it.

Your receipt won't prevent this. If you are really worried sell only thru a dealer then you are not the owner of record any longer, but even then the police might still come knocking as unless illegal databases exist and are being used, the manufacturer/importer gets a call with the the serial number and says "Dealer A". Dealer A gets a call or BATFE looks it up in the records he's turned in if "out of business". Which still point to you unless you sell thru the same dealer you bought from.

Maybe some LEO here can chime in, but I suspect the utility of crime gun traces is mostly only of value for anti's to blame the "availability of guns" for the crime. Just about everything you see on TV about guns is wrong.

For example, If, God forbid, you sell a gun to someone that ends up being used to commit a crime and the police end up at your door, you have a dated and sealed receipt that predates the crime.

Unless noterized this piece of paper is of no more value than just saying "I sold it to Joe Smith". If noterized and other evidence points at you this paper still proves nada as you could have stolen it back from Joe later to do your crime (you know where he lives, your paperwork proves it!). If Joe did the crime he'll claim it was stolen or he sold it.

--wally.

 

[M2 Carbine]

I give no personal information to a stranger and I ask for no information.

Do you really want a complete stranger knowing such things as your name, address, driver's license number, etc, and that you are a GUN OWNER?

As far as,

This is a total CYA thing. I don't want officer friendly knocking on my door asking why a firearm registered to me was found at a murder scene two years after I sold it.

This seems to be a big frightening thing to a lot of people
Exactly just what are you afraid will happen?

I'll tell you what happens.
A gun I owned and sold was used in a killing (I don't know any details).
City detectives tracked me 1,400 miles and called me on the phone. The call lasted just a few minutes and consisted of me telling the detective I sold the gun a couple years ago and (legally) had no paperwork.
That was it. No black helicopters over the house or the ATF kicking down the door in the middle of the night.

Follow any state and federal laws that apply and don't worry about it.

 

[paul]

In every one of the numerous FTF sales I've been involved with, both buying and selling, the transaction was completed with minimum of fuss.
If I didn't know your name beforehand, I generally didn't know it after.

I follow the law to the letter with absolutely no shortcuts.
p

 

[hso]

Nothing required here. If I like their looks I check that their drivers liscence is in-state and leave it at that. If I don't, then there's no deal.

 

[News Shooter]

In the PRM

Where the peons are only allowed four face to face transactions a year by the way...each party has to fill out and sign a form FA-10 which includes each person's personal information.

It is gun registration

 

[Derek Zeanah]

I might ask to see a CCW permit via e-mail before the meeting if I have any doubts about the buyer, but I don't keep any records. Nor do I provide any.

I'm just a little turned off by the whole "firearm purchase receipts must be created and maintained forever" mentality that seems to be the norm nowadays. In a perfect world, none of my firearms would have any records attached to them, though even I get impatient and buy new on occasion.

The only justification I can give for this other than "it creeps me out" is the experience one of our members shared during the DC Sniper Shootings, when he had a couple of MD cops show up at his door and essentially demand he hand his AR over for testing. I don't want to be placed in that position.

Especially if it ever comes to outlawing a particular brand/model/caliber of arm and I've never gotten around to properly disposing of mine...

 

[Lone_Gunman]

I have never asked for any personal information on guns I have sold, but I would not sell to someone that I was worried about to begin with. Under the law here, I can sell to another individual as long as I have no reason to believe they are illegal to buy a gun.

For those who require ID or other personal info, how do you know the ID is not fake?

 

[AirForceShooter]

I'm in Florida.
What reciept?

AFS

 

[Glockman17366]

I don't sell or swap guns very often.
The last time I did was for a revolver. We went through a FFL for this. I would do the same for a long gun (although I don't believe it's required in PA).

That 20 bucks for the FFL might save a guy a world of grief in the future...

Just my humble opinion!

 

[HiWayMan]

We look at each others ID's to confirm we are from the same state, then I get money and other gets gun or vice versa. There is no reciept or paperwork. And the deal always smells a bit like freedom, (except for that ID part).

 

[Vaarok]

For mailorder antiques across state lines or mailorder from in-state, I've usually just done the "Name/DL/I'm of legal age and not a crackhead, signed X" paper for the guy I was buying from. No idea what they did with it after they got it, but it seemed only fair.

The actual text I use is:

I [Vaarok] hereby certify and affirm that I am not a crazy, a crackhead, a wifebeater, child molestor, felon, fence-jumper, or other form of bad person, and can thus legally buy, posess, disassemble, reassemble, play with, weld on, drill, tap, modify, and even maybe have explode in my face, a pre-1899 antique firearm in my home town, county, and state, and hereby discharge the seller of any liability for any bad actions I could possibly make after I take possession of the item in question, even though I’m not going to.

 

[vis-à-vis]

I bought a gun from a friend but obtained no reciept. The fella has a CCW permit and I figure pretty legit. it was the only gun I have ever obtained that way. Should I get a reciept? Any laws requiring one?

 

[SomeKid]

is the experience one of our members shared during the DC Sniper Shootings, when he had a couple of MD cops show up at his door and essentially demand he hand his AR over for testing.

Derek, did you save the thread? I would love to read it.

If not, can you fill out the story more? (Did he "politely" slam the door for example?)

 

[Havegunjoe]

I would add a CCW permit. This implies that a background check was run. Here in MN we require a Permit to Purchase if you don't have a carry permit if you are buying from a store so I would require the same in a private sale. Both require a background check but the CCW is more extensive. I would photocopy all identification. You want to show you made a good faith effort to not sell to someone that shouldn't be allowed to own a gun.

 

[Maximum1]

You all are braver than I when it comes to selling private firearms. With all the litigation and risks involved with selling a firearm to a complete stranger I just don’t. Since there’s no way for me to check both State and Federal records to know whether this person can legally own a firearm (Convicted Felon, Mentality Ill, Restraining Order, etc.) all one needs is to sell a firearm to one of these and they end up using it illegally…The next thing you know the FBI is knocking on your door, or ATF or local Police, not to mention the potential law suits that could result. To me, it’s just not worth the risk.

I’d rather trade it into a license dealer (Yes, I understand for less than its worth) who in turn resells it.

That’s just me.

 

[Derek Zeanah]

Derek, did you save the thread? I would love to read it.

A quick search didn't find it -- Chaim was the poster if I recall correctly.

Maybe it was on TFL?

 

[SteelyNirvana]

Does anybody know the laws here in NC?. I sold a Norinco single shot 12ga to a coworker a few years ago and didn't bother to do receipt for him or myself. I knew him for about a year and he seemed pretty normal, a lil' slow at times but he was just a good ol' country boy. I don't believe he would ever do anything stupid with it but not sure if he even has the gun anymore. We both have left the place we worked at and I haven't seen him in two years. Should I track him down and get a receipt?

 

[Derek Zeanah]

OK, follow-up. A quick search on TFL makes me think the details are in this thread (actually that's to a link partway into the thread). If not, then it'll be a follow-up thread to that one.

Of course, it's possible I found the wrong one, too...

edit: nope, wrong one. Can anyone locate the post by a member here (and likely on TFL) who had the MD State Police come by to pick up his AR for testing?

 

[Mannlicher]

Recipt? We don't need no stinking recipts for private sales.

with a private sale, I don't need, or want to exchange info. Cash on the barrel head, and a handshake. What I do with my gun sales and purchases is no one's business.