I've run into a problem with a batch of 30-06 cases (M2) from WWII. They are marked 1943, repacked in the 50's in spam cans. The primer pockets continue to be too tight even after using the Dillon Super Swager and the Sinclair primer pocket uniformer. After several attempts with a more aggressive setting on the Swager, the primer pocket is still a few thousandths too small. I simply cannot get a primer into the case. What's the story here? Anyone else run into this?
Problem with WWII milsurp brass
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I cannot recall small pockets, but I would have tossed them long ago.
Military brass made during WWII was not meant to be reloaded. Getting useable ammunition out the door was the highest priority therefore non conformances and waivers would have been the name of the game.
Do not expect wartime items to be made to the same standards as peacetime equipment.
Military brass made during WWII was not meant to be reloaded. Getting useable ammunition out the door was the highest priority therefore non conformances and waivers would have been the name of the game.
Do not expect wartime items to be made to the same standards as peacetime equipment.
dprice3844444
member
find a pocket reamer
bigedp51
member
The problem is sometimes the swedger "pushes" brass "into" the primer pocket instead of "outward" and uniforming the pocket.
Polish the swedger smooth, if it is rough it "pushes" and if smooth it "expands".
Below is my large swedge that is NOT polished smooth, please notice the rough manufacturing rings. These tend to grip the copper and "push" the copper further into the primer pocket. If you polish the expander section smooth it will then "expand" the primer pocket instead of galling the pocket.
(sorry my batteries died and I didn't get a photo of the smooth small primer pocket swedge)
A primer pocket cleaner or primer pocket reamers can finish the job depending on how well the swedger worked.
I'm waiting for my bruised and bloody fingers to heal before attacking these two 5 gal buckets of military crimped cases "again". :banghead:
Polish the swedger smooth, if it is rough it "pushes" and if smooth it "expands".
Below is my large swedge that is NOT polished smooth, please notice the rough manufacturing rings. These tend to grip the copper and "push" the copper further into the primer pocket. If you polish the expander section smooth it will then "expand" the primer pocket instead of galling the pocket.
(sorry my batteries died and I didn't get a photo of the smooth small primer pocket swedge)
A primer pocket cleaner or primer pocket reamers can finish the job depending on how well the swedger worked.
I'm waiting for my bruised and bloody fingers to heal before attacking these two 5 gal buckets of military crimped cases "again". :banghead:
41 Mag
Member
biged hit the nail on the head. I had to go that route as well. Polish up the expander button and they will do a LOT better, but you might still have some, like he mentioned that need added attention.
I have just about what he has pictured there in WCC, LC, from 52 -56 and they all got the same treatment. First they got the swedge, and after loading a few rounds I went back through them over a months time and reamed the slight shoulder out which finalized them perfectly. It is very helpful to have a small slow turning battery screwdriver to do the work though. Didn't have it on the '06, but it was very available for the couple K each in .223 and .308. Just be careful and let the cutter cut, you don't need much pressure to clean them up.
I have just about what he has pictured there in WCC, LC, from 52 -56 and they all got the same treatment. First they got the swedge, and after loading a few rounds I went back through them over a months time and reamed the slight shoulder out which finalized them perfectly. It is very helpful to have a small slow turning battery screwdriver to do the work though. Didn't have it on the '06, but it was very available for the couple K each in .223 and .308. Just be careful and let the cutter cut, you don't need much pressure to clean them up.
SleazyRider
Member
I am curious: How does brass that is not meant to be reloaded differ from brass that is intended to be reloaded? Also, how do wartime standards differ from peacetime standards on these cases?
1KPerDay
Member
I've been having success using the rcbs primer pocket swager with 1950's era LC, SL, WCC, and TW .30-06 brass. You have to be pretty aggressive with some of them to completely remove the crimp. CCI primers. I put a bit of imperial sizing wax on the sizing mandrel/nipple thing every few rounds and it helps IMO.
alsaqr
Member
i reload a thousand or more WWII era .30 caliber cases every year. My solution to the primer crimp: Put a case chamfer tool in a drill press and grind out the crimp. Never had any problem priming cases made by nearly every maker of .30 caliber in WWII.
Are you sure that the whole primer is coming out when you deprime them? I've had a lot of primers that the center part punches out, but leaves the outer "shell" still in the pocket. Corrosion can get a pretty good grip on the primers and make them hard to punch out. My Hornady cutter gets the shell out.
Quoting myself: I read in another forum somewhere a pinned thread about Federal brass primer pockets being too big because Federal primers are just little larger in diameter than other brands. Are you using Federal primers????
Here's a link to the article that gave actual dimensions of primers, and Federal primers show to be larger diameter than others, and I HAVE had issues with loose CCI primers in Federal brass. So if the OP is using FEDERAL PRIMERS this could be contributing to the problem. They may be too large for the primer pocket.
http://www.jamescalhoon.com/primers_and_pressure.php
Here's a link to the article that gave actual dimensions of primers, and Federal primers show to be larger diameter than others, and I HAVE had issues with loose CCI primers in Federal brass. So if the OP is using FEDERAL PRIMERS this could be contributing to the problem. They may be too large for the primer pocket.
http://www.jamescalhoon.com/primers_and_pressure.php
SleazyRider
Member
That is good to know, because the Federals are the primer of choice for my S&W i-bolt .30-06, which produces primer strikes that are on the light side, and Federals are reputed to be the most sensitive of the primers, so I'd like to use them.
I, too, have a bunch of milsurp brass that I'll soon be reloading, and I was considering setting up a collet on my lathe to hold the casing, and going in with a .210 end mill or modified drill bit to size the primer pocket. If the primer measures .212 in diameter, however, that may be a tight squeeze. Further study appears to be in order.
I, too, have a bunch of milsurp brass that I'll soon be reloading, and I was considering setting up a collet on my lathe to hold the casing, and going in with a .210 end mill or modified drill bit to size the primer pocket. If the primer measures .212 in diameter, however, that may be a tight squeeze. Further study appears to be in order.
bigedp51
member
rondog and no offense intended Sir
In my posting above you will see two reamers and a primer pocket cleaner.
I had to retrain myself for all my .223/5.56 cases because it had been years since I had to do this to military 30-06 cases.
My first problem was 60 year old eyes "NOT" seeing the problem and I spent far too long cursing the reloading gods until a magnifying glass came out.
Therefore I would like to refine my above comments:
1. If you do not have a large quantity of military cases then don't bother, mixing military and commercial cartridge case is a NO-NO because of case capacity and chamber pressures.
2. A rough reamer or rough swedger can pick up brass, galling the pocket and screwing up the entire process and the primer pocket.
3. A polished swedger will work better than a rough reamer.
4. If a primer pocket cleaner wont fit the primer pocket needs more work.
5. A case chamfer tool will help if used carefully.
6. Your not having fun if your fingers are sore and bleeding.
7. I learned something today, when all else fails lube the swedger.
(thank you 1KPerDay)
In my posting above you will see two reamers and a primer pocket cleaner.
I had to retrain myself for all my .223/5.56 cases because it had been years since I had to do this to military 30-06 cases.
My first problem was 60 year old eyes "NOT" seeing the problem and I spent far too long cursing the reloading gods until a magnifying glass came out.
Therefore I would like to refine my above comments:
1. If you do not have a large quantity of military cases then don't bother, mixing military and commercial cartridge case is a NO-NO because of case capacity and chamber pressures.
2. A rough reamer or rough swedger can pick up brass, galling the pocket and screwing up the entire process and the primer pocket.
3. A polished swedger will work better than a rough reamer.
4. If a primer pocket cleaner wont fit the primer pocket needs more work.
5. A case chamfer tool will help if used carefully.
6. Your not having fun if your fingers are sore and bleeding.
7. I learned something today, when all else fails lube the swedger.
(thank you 1KPerDay)
1KPerDay
Member
You're welcome... you don't need much at all. I just touch the tin of sizing wax with my finger and then touch the swaging mandrel. It's more to assist in getting the brass back off the swager than anything (my press doesn't work with the little "skirt" that pulls the brass off the mandrel).
Cemetery21
Member
Before I had a swager (or a swagger), I cut crimps on '43 - '52 brass with a deburring tool or a Lyman reamer and used them in '06, .270 and 25-06 with very good results. One old 25-06 varmint bbl never saw brass with the correct headstamp. Never had a problem with too tight pockets when they were cut and I suspect the reamer/uniformer will clear up the problem.
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