Progressive Press Specifics - Hornady & Lee Loadmaster

[edwardware]

I've determined it's time for a progressive press, and I'd like input on my research.

After reading around, I believe I've narrowed it to the Hornady LnL Auto Progressive, or the Lee Loadmaster. The Dillon's are too expensive, and the Lee Pro1000 only has 3 positions.

My loads utilize Lee-profile cast FP bullets (either HiTek or powder coated) and whatever primers were on sale at Cabelas 3-4 years ago. I am not going to buy specific primers, or specific bullets. I also use the Lee FCD to crimp and post size. I figure to load 1-2k/year, and I don't want to spend 10-20 hours doing it. I am on the high end for mechanical proficiency and I don't mind fine tuning.

I observe:
Hornady LnL AP, ~$400 with parts for 9mm and 45ACP, and 2 bullet feeding dies, subtracting the ~$100 in bullets as rebate.
1) I would need to polish out the bullet feeding dies for my bullets. I can live with that.
2) The priming system is brand-agnostic. This is good.
3) I would manually feed cases since the case feeder is stupid expensive, and Hornady doesn't appear to offer the feeder without the collator.
4) It's a Hornady, and should work well, with great warranty support, forever.

Lee Loadmaster, ~$280 with kit for 9mm and 45ACP.
1) I would need to constantly tweak and fiddle to keep it running. I can live with that, but. . .
2) The priming system is supposed to be haunted and very finicky, and I won't buy specific primers for it. Can I polish into working order?
3) I would manually feed bullets, since the build-in case feeder looks great, and the bullet feeder looks weak.
4) It's a Lee; brilliant low cost engineering requiring constant fiddling.

If you have experience with these presses, I would like your input on the above. I also want to know:
1) Am I missing anything? Making any incorrect assumptions?
2) Can I buy a case feeder for the Hornady LnL AP that's just a feeder, not a collator, for reasonable money? This would let me manually set bullets, which I prefer.
3) Can I fiddle/polish/modify/finish the Lee Priming systems to be reliable with any brand primers?
4) Can I fiddle/polish the Auto Disk or Auto Drum powder measures into reliability?

Your advice based on experience is appreciated.

 

[THEWELSHM]

Here you go Mate.. A good read for you to help you decide..

http://www.comrace.ca/cmfiles/dillonLeeHornadyComparison.pdf

thewelshm

 

[ColtPythonElite]

9 years and 100k+ rounds on my LnL with no complaints.

 

[Blue68f100]

Mine is about the same age ColePythonElite's, still going strong. With the way the LNL-AP feeds brass it fairly easy and does not require much effort. You could order the pusher feed parts if you wanted too. I added the brass feeder to mine after I had it for 1 yr. Broke my wrist and still wanted to shoot and load. As far as the bullet feeder, most say to go with MrBulletFeeder? instead of the Hornady one. I still set the bullets, allow me to confirm the powder. Mine as the old primer system, still running smooth, no problems.

 

[edwardware]

. . . You could order the pusher feed parts if you wanted too. I added the brass feeder to mine after I had it for 1 yr. . .

I still set the bullets, allow me to confirm the powder.

That's exactly what I was thinking, if I can get the lower end of Hornady's case feeder for reasonable.

 

[johnandersonoutdoors]

I don't want to be one of those guys that suggests something other than what you, as the OP, asked about. However, I did notice that you said the Dillons are too expensive, so I wanted to share this deal at Scheels. $419 for the Dillon 550C.

http://www.scheels.com/shop/scheels...recision-rl550b-reloading-press-4235-14261-y3

 

[ColtPythonElite]

In my eyes a 550 isn't exactly progressive since you manually index it

 

[thomas15]

It takes about 8-10 weeks for the free bullets to arrive and you pay shipping I think it's about $14.00

I have had my free bullets for almost 3 years and have yet to open them up. When you handload 8000+ rounds per year, 500 bullets doesn't get you very excited. You should think of the bullet rebate as a bonus not something connected to the unit price. Don't take this as an insult but your overall price reasoning in the OP is cutting a very fine edge and your costs are going to be higher once you get into this with the LnL.

You should be able to find a LnL for about $379.00 plus shipping. You will need a shell plate for each caliber you load they are about $35.00 each. Purchasing a lower powder drop assembly and the link adjuster for each additional caliber makes changes a lot easier (trust me on this) this adds roughly $35.00 to each caliber not including the first caliber you start with. PTX dies for belling cost about $10.00 each, they go on the powder drop. Extra LnL die bushings are around $15.00 for a set of 3, extra primer pick up tubes are $25.00 set of 3.

Just because I do things a certain way doesn't mean you should but I think getting the basic LnL set up and working for all the calibers you load for (before adding case/bullet feeders) is better use of your money. No matter what progressive press you get, a good place to throw money at them are Strong (or Ultra) mounts, ergo handles, LED lights to see the powder charge and heavy duty bullet trays. This is not inexpensive.

You can add case and bullet feeders later. If you think $300.00 is stupid expensive for an add-on that will boost production time by a couple hundred rounds per hour (Hornady case feeder) then with all due respect you should probably stay away from the Hornady. There is really no price comparison between the Hornady and Lee. The real comparison is between the LnL and the Dillon 650 not the LnL and Lee. If your loading 3 or 4 calibers it is easy to have $600.00 in the LnL and if you think there is any chance you will be happy with the Lee then there you go.

I don't mean to sound like a jerk but high volume handloading on a progressive press is, to put it bluntly, not for the faint of heart. It really comes down to your volume of ammo use, tolerance for tinkering with the press and making caliber specific adjustments, flexability with respect to components and your ultimate rate of production. If you can sit at your bench and an hour later have 500 rounds to shoot then when you go to the range you will shoot 500 rounds, it's that simple. It might, I have never run the numbers, but it might be less expensive to have a separate loadmaster for each caliber you load rather then buy the items needed to make easy caliber changes on a LnL. 3 years into using my LnL and I'm thinking about getting another one so that I can have one set up for 9mm all the time, the other for my other calibers that I use less of. Truthfully for me, the question is do I spend $350.00 for a case feeder or buy another LnL? Crazy I know.

 

[nettlle]

I may be wrong but this is my take on progressive presses. A progressive press completes a round with each pull of the handle. An auto progressive press completes a round with each pull of the handle but has auto index. I don't think manual index excludes 550b/550c presses from being progressive presses.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

Regardless of the semantics, I don't want a press I have to manually index.

 

[edwardware]

I don't want to be one of those guys that suggests something other than what you, as the OP, asked about. However, I did notice that you said the Dillons are too expensive, so I wanted to share this deal at Scheels. $419 for the Dillon 550C.

I may be wrong but. . . (a) progressive press completes a round with each pull of the handle. An auto progressive press completes a round with each pull of the handle but has auto index.

Regardless of the semantics, I don't want a press I have to manually index.

The way I figure it, I want to have to do only one (1) think in between handle strokes, preferable setting a bullet since that helps me look for a good powder charge. If I have to (1) set a bullet, (2) set a case, and (3) index a plate, I don't think I'm gaining enough cycle time over a turret to make it worthwhile.

. . . If you think $300.00 is stupid expensive for an add-on that will boost production time by a couple hundred rounds per hour (Hornady case feeder) then with all due respect you should probably stay away from the Hornady. There is really no price comparison between the Hornady and Lee. The real comparison is between the LnL and the Dillon 650 not the LnL and Lee. If your loading 3 or 4 calibers it is easy to have $600.00 in the LnL and if you think there is any chance you will be happy with the Lee then there you go.

I don't mean to sound like a jerk but high volume handloading on a progressive press is, to put it bluntly, not for the faint of heart. It really comes down to your volume of ammo use, tolerance for tinkering with the press and making caliber specific adjustments, flexability with respect to components and your ultimate rate of production. . .

Thank you for your input, but I think my requirements are a bit different. I want to load 2k a year in 2 calibers, with the mishmash of primers I already own, with my own cast bullets; I won't be switching back and forth more than once per year, so I won't plan to spend on quick-change parts (measures, bushings, etc).

I have run the numbers, and either press costs about the same once you think about them in $/k and cycle time. The real question is whether the Lee can feed my primers, or the Hornady can feed my bullets or brass. If either answer is no, then the decision is made.

Any input on the Lee primer system with AnyBrand primers? Can it be done?

 

[jmorris]

From those two I'd pick the LNL over the LM.

I wouldn't worry about a case feed without a collator, the speed from a case feed comes from the collator not the device that takes it from the tube and puts it in the shell plate, same goes for a bullet feeder.

I never had to do a thing to my Hornady bullet feed die, it just worked. Although I wasn't using cast bullets with it. I could never get the Lee bullet feeder to work for more than a few hundred rounds without it having some issue.

As far as "gaining enough cycle time over a turret to make it worthwhile", with a progressive it's not how long it takes you to stroke the handle, rather the fact that you are performing functions at every die in the operation at the same time. In other words if you took twice as long to complete a "cycle" in a progressive you would still be much faster than a turret where you are having to preform multiple cycles just to complete a single round.

If maximum efficiency with minimal work is what you are after, collated bullet and case feed is where that is at, no matter what press you pick.





That said, you're looking to load 2,000 round a year of 2 different calibers. That works out to 11 rounds a day, not real easy to justify spending much money on speed when it's not really needed. Unless you just want to load for the entire year in an afternoon, just about any press could load the amount you are looking at.

 

[cfullgraf]

I have and like the Hornady L-N-L. I have no experience with the Lee but there are folks out there that like them.

I use a progressive differently than most folks. I make small runs (<500 or so) frequently on many different cartridges so I have abandoned some of the automated features to speed up cartridge changes and mnimize start up issues associated with a major change.

In getting to the point that I am at, I spent lots of money at first getting extras that I thought I might need. As my operating desires evolved, some the extras have been abandoned as they do not fit my needs.

I suggest starting simple since you are not looking for boat loads of ammunition. As you get comfortable with the press, add the features you feel will make your life easier.

I have a Dillon BL550, the basic version of the 550b/550c. The way I use a progressive, it works great but the four station set up can be limiting if you start with once fired cases. (I resize cases shortly after shooting them and store them away for a future loading session).

 

[maxxhavoc]

I like Lee equipment. I use Pro 1000s for all my pistol loading except .45lc and 454. They are so low quantity I just use the turret press. I do not use pistol FCDs, and have never needed to in 20+ years. I use them for rifles in semiautomatics but those are a completely different device.

I have a strong Lee bias, they work great for me, and I don't want to pay double for "fit and finish." With that said, if you NEED the FCD, I would probably lean toward the Hornady. I have used Loadmasters and do not like the primers seating on an upstroke. I find the prime-on-downstroke system to give much better "feel" which helps stop missed primer powder dumps and many other issues

 

[wally]

I like Lee equipment except for the Loadmaster. I gave mine away as I tried all three "generations" of the primer subsystem and never could get it to stop messing up and wasting components and time. I got it since I could get the "whole thing" for about the same price as the quick change caliber conversion for my Dillion 650 -- biggest mistake I've ever made in reloading. Use the search I've posted multiple threads with pictures about my Loadmaster problems.

I had two of the earlier versions of the Lock and Load (Projector, Pro-7). They gave good service for many years but when their priming systems started screwing up for the second time (each was replaced once at my expense (maybe Hornady support has improved since from the competition with Dillon). I replaced them With Dillon 650 (one for large pimers the other for small) and crank out ~20-25K rounds per year to support my steel plate shooting. I use Lee dies in my Dillon presses. Any thing goes wrong with my Dillon and after a quick phone call I get the replacement parts quickly mailed to me for free.

The LnL is good, way better than the Loadmaster, but I'd suck it up and save for the Dillon.

 

[bullseye308]

I have a Loadmaster and it runs just fine. I haven't done any priming on it lately because I prep my brass on a single stage on the porch mostly in large batches, then hand prime while watching a movie or reading. I have run a few hundred thousand through it straight from the range and after a little tweaking and mild sanding to the priming assembly it hasn't given me any problems since. I have only used CCI primers so far, so take that for what it is.
I do have the brass feeder and use it, but hand feed the bullets and can crank out a large amount of rounds in a short time. For the cost of the press it would be a good idea to set one up for each caliber so once it is dialed in you don't have to do anything but add powder, primers, and brass. It only takes a few minutes to change it over if you have a tool head setup in your other caliber and that's what I do. I can change from 9mm to 357 in 2 minutes and be going. When I run out of my supply of primed brass I'll go back to priming on the press

 

[Load Master]

You are more than welcome to come and stop by my YouTube channel to see what the Lee Load Master can do for you. Link to CHANNEL

 

[mstreddy]

As a Hornady LNL user I'll chime in here, and to answer Thomas15 where he laments the following:

Two phrases are noticeably missing from this thread:
1. "...and I haven't looked back."
2. "...it just works."

So, I'll correct this deficiency...
1. I bought my first LNL used back in 2012 "... and I haven't looked back." In fact, I bought a second one so I can keep one LNL primarily dedicated to 9MM which is what I load the most -- around 4K rounds a year.
2. yes, you'll have to adjust the auto-index feed pawls and the priming system but once you do "...it just works." And they continue working.

Unlike some here, I do prime on the press with my LNL.
OP you mention for the LNL

I observe:
Hornady LnL AP, ~$400 with parts for 9mm and 45ACP, and 2 bullet feeding dies, subtracting the ~$100 in bullets as rebate.
1) I would need to polish out the bullet feeding dies for my bullets. I can live with that.
2) The priming system is brand-agnostic. This is good.
3) I would manually feed cases since the case feeder is stupid expensive, and Hornady doesn't appear to offer the feeder without the collator.
4) It's a Hornady, and should work well, with great warranty support, forever.

1 - Yes, you would have to modify the bullet feed dies for coated bullets. There were some threads on those mods here recently. Bear in mind, if you do, then they would likely not work for regular plated/jacketed bullets later. Another thing to think about, you will need to flare the case enough (more than normal) for the bullet feed.
2 - Priming system rocks. Yes, you may have to polish here and there. And most important -- keep it clean.
3 - I am running with no case feeder. I am using the bullet feed dies and the tubes for some calibers.
4 - Yes, they work pretty well, once adjusted correctly. Hornady has done right by me when needed.
You also asked:

If you have experience with these presses, I would like your input on the above. I also want to know:
1) Am I missing anything? Making any incorrect assumptions?
2) Can I buy a case feeder for the Hornady LnL AP that's just a feeder, not a collator, for reasonable money? This would let me manually set bullets, which I prefer.
3) Can I fiddle/polish/modify/finish the Lee Priming systems to be reliable with any brand primers?
4) Can I fiddle/polish the Auto Disk or Auto Drum powder measures into reliability?

1 - I think for the most part you're on track.
2 - I don't know if that's possible. Definitely not from Hornady. But, I have seen some home made case feeders that just use a tube.
3 - I don't know if it's all about the reliability or Lee's caution against soft primers - Federal namely. Lee users should be able to answer this.
4. Good question. I've seen them be pretty consistent in my friend's setup but they can be very inconsistent at the lower end of charge weights. But, I like the ability to set any desired charge weight on a rotary drum measure.

The way I figure it, I want to have to do only one (1) think in between handle strokes, preferable setting a bullet since that helps me look for a good powder charge. If I have to (1) set a bullet, (2) set a case, and (3) index a plate, I don't think I'm gaining enough cycle time over a turret to make it worthwhile.

On the Hornady with the bullet feed die, yes, grab/set a case, look at charge and go. But, honestly, even when I don't use a bullet feed die, I have developed a pretty good rhythm of grabbing case and bullet at same motion (case first and then bullet that way bullet is ready to set), set bullet on charged case (look at charge), set case on shellplate and go on.

As to your time requirement. I can load 100 rounds in 15-18 minutes without stressing anything.

I can't comment on the Lee as I have never run one of them.

 

[edwardware]

Thanks all. After comparing and reading some more I've decided on a Hornady LnL. Now I'm just waiting for a deal/sale/open box to come along and best Amazon's $392 price. Maybe Jet.com will have a sale. . .

 

[thomas15]

Thanks all. After comparing and reading some more I've decided on a Hornady LnL. Now I'm just waiting for a deal/sale/open box to come along and best Amazon's $392 price. Maybe Jet.com will have a sale. . .

As good as it gets... https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/00005095100/lock-n-load-ap-auto-progressive-press

 

[AR-Bossman]

Thanks all. After comparing and reading some more I've decided on a Hornady LnL. Now I'm just waiting for a deal/sale/open box to come along and best Amazon's $392 price. Maybe Jet.com will have a sale. . .

On Amazon $382 is historically the cheapest you'll find on there.. so if you wanna wait to save 10 bucks... Once you factor shipping most places are the same price or real close. YOu could wait for a used one to show up. Most people throw in a bunch of extras.

 

[BillBloggins]

Looks like Natchez has a deal going with free shipping, Lock n Load press @ $379- this is the best I have seen.

 

[edwardware]

You could wait for a used one to show up. Most people throw in a bunch of extras.

Yes, but I've yet to see a seller knock $100 off the price for the value of the bullet rebate you don't get buying used. Just like the used guns market at the moment, New is cheaper than Used.

Looks like Natchez has a deal going with free shipping, Lock n Load press @ $379- this is the best I have seen.

I think that's it!

 

[AR-Bossman]

Yes, but I've yet to see a seller knock $100 off the price for the value of the bullet rebate you don't get buying used. Just like the used guns market at the moment, New is cheaper than Used.
I think that's it!

Ahhh yes.. the $100 rebate. I forgot about that. I was trying to sell a brand new LNL classic full kit last year and because of that rebate I was getting stupid offers like $100.. I just ended up keeping it. I wasn't gonna let people hose me to death.

 

[Kaldor]

To answer the questions directly:

1) I would need to polish out the bullet feeding dies for my bullets. I can live with that.
Lead bullets do not generally work well in bullet feeders and dies. The bullet lube raises problems. HiTek coated generally have way less issues. I dont feel the Hornady bullet feeder is a great option. The Mr Bullet Feeder, while expensive, is the best out there. But honestly when starting with a progressive, a bullet feeder is the last thing you buy.
2) The priming system is brand-agnostic. This is good.
Hornady priming system works quite well when clean and burr free. It will pivot the press slightly under the priming ram, but that issue is easily solved with a thing piece of metal or a dime where it contacts the press body. I have not had issues with any particular brand of primers in mine.
3) I would manually feed cases since the case feeder is stupid expensive, and Hornady doesn't appear to offer the feeder without the collator.
The case feeder is a beast all of itself. Some work great out the box, some do not. I have done countless hours of work and have probably have more documented changes on mine to get it running as well as it possible can. Message me if you need specifics. I feel the case feeder is the best upgrade you can make as it will increase your work done over time, as well as make the reloading process far more enjoyable.
4) It's a Hornady, and should work well, with great warranty support, forever.
Absolutely correct. Hornady and pretty much all the reloading companies have great service. However, I have heard of cases where the tech will try and tell you something that just doesnt make sense. In that case, check here first.

I have owned my LnL for 4 years, with 50k loaded on it and probably almost that many pieces of brass processed for decapping and sizing runs. I do run a case feeder that has been heavily worked over for maximum reliability and speed.

Beyond the press you will need the correct shell plates, some extra LnL bushings, and obviously the dies. Other things I would add. A separate insert for the powder drop so you can leave one set for 9 and the other for 45 to make life easy. A pack of shell retention springs in case you smash one. A can of OneShot to lightly lube your pistol cases even with TiN dies, make its alot easier and you dont have to tumble off.

Non Hornady items that I find very useful for loading pistol: Lyman M-Dies for each caliber. These are far and away better than the Hornady expanders. Lee FCD's in each caliber. When setting these up, be sure to not over crimp, creep up on it. A press handle from Inline Fab which will save your shoulder and back. Maybe a primer filler like a VibraPrime as I hate stabbing primers.

Im assuming you own scales and all the other stuff so I wont go beyond this.

Get the press setup and running before adding the case feeder. Setup is easy enough, just set it up, verify the timing is dead on. Set each station by itself, running just a single case all the way around. Then work into full progressive.

I will not comment on the Lee press as I dont own one.

1) Am I missing anything? Making any incorrect assumptions?
2) Can I buy a case feeder for the Hornady LnL AP that's just a feeder, not a collator, for reasonable money? This would let me manually set bullets, which I prefer.
See my above statements for 1 & 2 but I probably missed something
4) Can I fiddle/polish the Auto Disk or Auto Drum powder measures into reliability?
AutoDisk is actually a pretty good rotary drop and are really good to have on hand for other calibers when you want to just leave a drop set for a particular loading and will work fine on the LnL.

Your advice based on experience is appreciated

Thats all I have...

Edit:
I remembered one more thing. Buy yourself a Hornady Lock-N-Load AP Powder Funnel Die and use that for load build ups. It will save you alot of headache in load dev because making changes on a rotary drop is far from a perfect science and you will spend alot of time dicking around getting it right.