Proposed replacement for the M4: The AKM

[rugerdude]

And here I am saying that I've been to to sandy and dusty environments using the M4 and it performed well. We could talk all day about what if my rifle had been dunked in mud etc... but that's hardly the rule. I encountered none of the persistent malfunctions that people claim occur in the "real world" despite more than a year spent in that "real word" and a few more years pushing the M4 platform hard in training. We can debate without data forever, and without statistics of any kind I can only offer my experience (just as you can), that in real world conditions the M4A1 performed well, without reliability issues.

And of course there's always room for improvement. That we can agree on.

 

[SabbathWolf]

And here I am saying that I've been to to sandy and dusty environments using the M4 and it performed well. We could talk all day about what if my rifle had been dunked in mud etc... but that's hardly the rule. I encountered none of the persistent malfunctions that people claim occur in the "real world" despite more than a year spent in that "real word" and a few more years pushing the M4 platform hard in training. We can debate without data forever, and without statistics of any kind I can only offer my experience (just as you can), that in real world conditions the M4A1 performed well, without reliability issues.

And of course there's always room for improvement. That we can agree on.

AK vs AR debates are classic. And for good reason.
I just get really irritated when somebody tries to make one sound waaaay better than the other.
It's just not the case. They both have their strengths and weaknesses.
We are not going to solve a 50 year fight here at THR I doubt....lol

 

[cal30_sniper]

AK vs AR debates are classic. And for good reason.
I just get really irritated when somebody tries to make one sound waaaay better than the other.

It sounds to me like that's exactly what you're trying to do, and being quite patronizing while you're at it...

Interesting that we never hear from anyone who has carried an AK into combat. You always hear about super reliability, "close to AR" accuracy, and a huge increase in knockdown power. However, increased reliability is the only one of those claims that may actually be supported by fact, and how much does it really increase?

Any rifle is going to exhibit some degree of unreliability, failure rate is a fact of mechanical design. How much more reliable is an AK than an AR? Comparing stats of ARs used in heavy combat under horrible conditions to the guy shooting his heavily modified and religiously cleaned AK at the gun range every week just isn't fair. The fact is, unless you have extensive combat service with both weapons, you're really not qualified to make a judgement. I doubt there aren't many people out there that have that, and even fewer of them likely live here in the states.

 

[JustinJ]

Not only that....but I'll bet a whole months retirement check that you were running AKs with iron sights and no optics.
Optics and/or better irons sights on an AK make a world of difference.
The "inaccuracy" of AKs is an internet fable.
Yet, you almost always see optics on M4s too....for a reason.
I don't believe you are "aware" of the AKs accuracy at all.
Don't believe me yet again?
Watch this....

Yeah, sorry but that proves a whole lot of nothing and i would call it a fluke. If you really want to prove a factory AK can shoot MOA with wolf ammo, and i wish you the best of luck, mount a magnified optic and shoot at least three groups of five. I'd bet against that any day of the week.

The AK47 is plenty accurate for it's intended purposes and i'm not knocking the gun but moa with military issue or commercial russian ammo just ain't gona happen.

 

[Robert]

That is enough for this round of AR vs AK. But don't worry folks, it'll be back in 6 months or less...

And for any AK owner that is interested, we run a tactical rifle match the 4th Sunday of the month in Pueblo West. Bring your AK out and run head to head with ARs for time and accuracy. It may not be "real world", whatever that is, but it is as close as you can get without someone shooting back.