Pro's and con's of announcing to an intruder that you're armed

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He suggested that an experienced, intelligent crook (there are a few of these around I suppose) could parry this announcement by saying something denying mens rea/criminal intent (e.g. "my friend is hurt and needs help").
That was a typical way of getting in where I lived in Cali. A couple of experiences prior to my becoming a gun owner: One time a guy rang my bell at 5 a.m. I knew I better answer the door because normally BGs would first knock or ring to see if anybody is home, if no answer go around the back and break in. Like here I had security doors on that house, so I could open the wooden door and talk to him with no danger of him getting in. First question was whether I speak Armenian (lot of Armenians in the neighborhood), I said no, then he said he lives nearby and told a story about his wife was in a terrible car accident and he needs money for a taxi to get to the hospital. I asked why he picked my house, he said it was the only one with lights on. I really just wanted him to go away. I ended up slipping a $20 bill under the door, which if his story was true (highly unlikely) would have solved his problem, but if not he wouldn't have a reason to stay. Thankfully he left. Another time, much scarier, somebody was banging on the windows at the back of the house in the middle of the night (maybe 2 or 3 a.m.), I yelled out, a FEMALE said she "needs my help", and she's "not a bad person". I called 911, the dispatcher said stay out of view of any windows, it took a long time for police to arrive, the whole time I was still interacting with her, finally the dispatcher said they were almost there and I should yell "Police are on the way", which I did... by the time they arrived she was gone. Later I thought I shouldn't have said that, would have been better if they arrested her. (This was before catch and release took hold.)
 
There are situations in which someone is dangerous despite being unarmed.

Besides, I would think it would be rare that a burglar would be unarmed in the first place.

How did he get in? A hammer? A knife? A screwdriver? A brick? Unless you left a window or door unlocked, there's about a 90% chance he has some kind of tool that can be used as a weapon.
Don't forget discrepancy of size, age, gender, and/or number.
 
hen he said he lives nearby and told a story about his wife was in a terrible car accident and he needs money for a taxi to get to the hospital.
A few years back, about 10:30 pm on a weeknight, I was at work and the wife had a guy pounding on the door (she'd already gone to bed as she got up for work at 0500). Talking to him through the door, he told her his car broke down and he needed to use our telephone (wife didn't think to ask why he didn't have a cell phone, though he'd probably said the battery was dead). We live on a dead-end road with only a handful of homes on a two-mile stretch in the woods. When my wife asked where his car was, he pointed down to the dead-end of the road. Now, he'd had to walk down our 200-foot driveway but no car in sight. She knew he wasn't a neighborhood resident and asked where he'd been; he replied at a "friends." So she asked the name of the friend (we know every name of the ten families) and he said something like "John." At this point, she'd recognized he was under the influence of meth, told him to leave or she'd have to wake up her husband and was calling the sheriff. This guy could hear two dogs barking inside, figured he'd fold his cards and left quickly. Later we found out two homeless tweakers were squatting on the one vacant plot a few hundred yards down the road and that two homes had been broken into -- and firearms and jewelry stolen. We pondered what the outcome would have been had he gone a couple houses down and woken up the older couple who were very nice, generous and a bit naive about the current drug culture and crime in the area.

My point being, there are many cases of well-meaning citizens who willingly let folks with bad intent into their homes. Amazingly, to this day. Those who've worked in law enforcement and corrections know just how easily, and convincingly, criminals can lie and spin heartrending stories.
Don't forget discrepancy of size, age, gender, and/or number.
Disparity of force is a recognized concept in self-defense cases. The intruder need not be armed with a deadly weapon.
 
Are there any lawyers in this conversation? I'm not one. I am fairly experienced in the use of firearms and tactics, but I never went to law school. If I found myself in such a situation where my actions had to be explained to a lawyer, I would just use my own lawyer.
 
Legal position, I believe that you would be benefited in the aftermath to have given warning, and those efforts be recorded...
Physical confrontation a bad idea. There is zero usable cover in my house and not much concealment. Any decent power pistol could shoot from one end of my house to the other through walls, let alone a rifle.
If they are outside I will use that opertunity to provide every warning. If they come inside and close me and my children's position despite warning, that's clear intent in my view....
 
In my entire extended family we do not make "surprise" visits.
Visits are announced in advance. Arrivals are not done surreptitiously.
There is zero confusion or ambiguity when our family gets home.
 
Which particular statement (or all) are you terming "propaganda?"

Been retired a while, eh?

If you take issue with any of my comments, it would be courteous to disagree with an explanation, rather than simply dismissing my entire post as propaganda.
A intruder in my home is not going to get a warning that I am armed I made many enemies while on the job with several who said in open court they would see me dead if they got out You do what you want/ me I am going to live. Yes I do take issue when death threats are made towards myself and family members that is more explaining than I have done in the last 20 years.
 
Are there any lawyers in this conversation?
The guy in the video is an attorney who practices in Wisconsin. His shingle mentions DWI charges, criminal law including gun possession cases, family law.....,

Self defense is mentioned, seemingly as a recent afterthought. BUT--very few criminal defense attorneys, even those who have practiced for decades, have any real experience in defending self defense cases involving "good guys". When there has been a use of force incident and the accused cannot credibly deny having done the deed, he is left with tying to get a self defense instruction. Not too many of them prevail. Successfully undertaking the legal defense of self defense requires knowing a lot more than having read the state law. There are higher court rulings, both within the jurisdiction and without, to analyze. More importantly, the successful defense can get into a great deal of depth involving the dynamics of use of force incidents. How long does it take to react if the attacker turns away.... how long an interval between the last and the next-to-last shot would be acceptable....can you describe and discuss that alleged "furtive movement".... what was one's basis for believing that the entry had been forcible or tumultuous...at what point in time did the defender first shoot.....

One does not want to have the run-of-the mill criminal defense attorney, not to mention one's Cousin Vinny, at one's defense table in a self defense trial.

Now, the fact of an unlawful entry into an occupied residence does give the defense a lot of "ammunition", so to speak, but there are no guarantees...period. And even if the defender did everything strictly according to Hoyle, the probability of conviction is uncomfortably higher than zero.

Again, shooting is a last resort, It is to be done when it is necessary, but it should not be undertaken because the defender thinks it will be justified.
 
A intruder in my home is not going to get a warning that I am armed I made many enemies while on the job with several who said in open court they would see me dead if they got out You do what you want/ me I am going to live. Yes I do take issue when death threats are made towards myself and family members that is more explaining than I have done in the last 20 years.
The question was, what did you mean by "pure propaganda"?
 
The question was, what did you mean by "pure propaganda"?
To advise people in their own home that shooting a intruder in their home in the middle of the night without a warning may result in their arrest that is pure propaganda I am done explaining people who espouse that view certainly do not ever need to own a firearm.
 
To advise people in their own home that shooting a intruder in their home in the middle of the night without a warning may result in their arrest that is pure propaganda
People have been arrested for shooting others at all times of the day, with and without warnings. That is fact, not "propaganda".
I am done explaining people who espouse that view ...
It is a fact, not a "view" to be "espoused"
...certainly do not ever need to own a firearm.
Eh? I have saved my life by using firearms on several occasions. I have never had to shoot.
 
People have been arrested for shooting others at all times of the day, with and without warnings. That is fact, not "propaganda".
It is a fact, not a "view" to be "espoused"
Eh? I have saved my life by using firearms on several occasions. I have never had to shoot.
No what your view is the Al Bragg rule a criminal is above reproach and to defend yourself within the confines of your domicile with deadly force in the middle of the night makes you a criminal like I stated which you clearly are avoiding is the fact I have not only a legal right to the amount of force within my home but a GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO DEFEND MY HOME. There are many on gun sites who espouse your point of view clearly a ANTI GUN VIEW in my opinion making it seem you must never fire or keep a loaded firearm within reach or to even own a firearm as I asked earlier why do you lock your doors if you don't plan on shooting???? One other thing give me some incidents lawful incidents where a homeowner was incarcerated for defending themselves from criminal activity in their own home.
 
Shooting an "intruder" in your home without warning usually ends up like this


Maybe it would at your house but my dogs know friendlies from criminals but feel free to post as much ANTI GUN propaganda as you like those of us who have training know who is for and who is against firearms on these sites.
 
Are there any lawyers in this conversation?If I found myself in such a situation where my actions had to be explained to a lawyer, I would just use my own lawyer.
That is exactly why I have USLawShield concealed carry insurance as well as have a lawyer on retainer with whom I keep in routine contact. Neither are that expensive. I am not advocating for this particular insurance company. I just think every law abiding American should invest a little and have a plan should something happen whether firearm related or not.
 
Maybe it would at your house but my dogs know friendlies from criminals but feel free to post as much ANTI GUN propaganda as you like those of us who have training know who is for and who is against firearms on these sites.

I was never a cop, I was a security guard.

But in my city I was required to qualify with my handgun every 6 months. I was required to take use of force refresher training every 90 days. We had to take ongoing training in the limits of our "authority".

I'm not saying that I have as much training as a cop but I have more than the average citizen.

So do I qualify as "Those of us who have training"?

I won't count this as any official training that I've had but I've heard (on videos) and read (in articles) Massad Ayoob say numerous times you should never put anything on the internet that you wouldn't be comfortable hearing a prosecuting attorney reading to a jury.

I think maybe you could learn a lesson in that
 
Maybe it would at your house but my dogs know friendlies from criminals but feel free to post as much ANTI GUN propaganda as you like those of us who have training know who is for and who is against firearms on these sites.
Training??? What is this training you speak of? Where have you trained? Who is teaching that you can shoot anyone in your home at any time without fear of legal repercussion? No competent attorney would? No reputable firearms instructor would. Did your "trainer" also tell you that if you shoot someone at the door to drag the body across the threshold so you're in the clear legally? I'm really curious to know who is teaching this.
 
Training??? What is this training you speak of? Where have you trained? Who is teaching that you can shoot anyone in your home at any time without fear of legal repercussion? No competent attorney would? No reputable firearms instructor would. Did your "trainer" also tell you that if you shoot someone at the door to drag the body across the threshold so you're in the clear legally? I'm really curious to know who is teaching this.

He's got Blue Privilege
 
I was never a cop, I was a security guard.

But in my city I was required to qualify with my handgun every 6 months. I was required to take use of force refresher training every 90 days. We had to take ongoing training in the limits of our "authority".

I'm not saying that I have as much training as a cop but I have more than the average citizen.

So do I qualify as "Those of us who have training"?

I won't count this as any official training that I've had but I've heard (on videos) and read (in articles) Massad Ayoob say numerous times you should never put anything on the internet that you wouldn't be comfortable hearing a prosecuting attorney reading to a jury.

I think maybe you could learn a lesson in that
So defending myself in my own home is now illegal yeah and ayoob I remember the conversation with him a few years back about hot loaded hand loads in your own house he danced around that when I asked for a court case where they were found in question to be too lethal and in fact illegal again he thanked me for my service and moved on the prosecution has heard me on several occasions including use of force incidents if you follow the continuum of the scale no problem.
 
Training??? What is this training you speak of? Where have you trained? Who is teaching that you can shoot anyone in your home at any time without fear of legal repercussion? No competent attorney would? No reputable firearms instructor would. Did your "trainer" also tell you that if you shoot someone at the door to drag the body across the threshold so you're in the clear legally? I'm really curious to know who is teaching this.
You need to reread my comment mr white really you do and I am really curious as to why you have not only impugned my statement but are taking a adversarial stand to encountering an intruder in your home in the middle of the night if so do you lock your doors if yes why????
 
My step daughter and her live-in boyfriend walked to a local bar for drinks. She had two drinks, IIRC. On the way home they had a dispute and parted paths. That's the last of her memory until she awoke to strange faces in a strange living room. Someone had drugged her drink (she had a toxicology test).

I'm very thankful she didn't wander into the homes of some of these posters.
 
You need to reread my comment mr white really you do and I am really curious as to why you have not only impugned my statement but are taking a adversarial stand to encountering an intruder in your home in the middle of the night if so do you lock your doors if yes why????
So defending myself in my own home is now illegal yeah and ayoob I remember the conversation with him a few years back about hot loaded hand loads in your own house he danced around that when I asked for a court case where they were found in question to be too lethal and in fact illegal again he thanked me for my service and moved on the prosecution has heard me on several occasions including use of force incidents if you follow the continuum of the scale no problem.
So defending myself in my own home is now illegal yeah and ayoob I remember the conversation with him a few years back about hot loaded hand loads in your own house he danced around that when I asked for a court case where they were found in question to be too lethal and in fact illegal again he thanked me for my service and moved on the prosecution has heard me on several occasions including use of force incidents if you follow the continuum of the scale no problem.
So defending myself in my own home is now illegal yeah and ayoob I remember the conversation with him a few years back about hot loaded hand loads in your own house he danced around that when I asked for a court case where they were found in question to be too lethal and in fact illegal again he thanked me for my service and moved on the prosecution has heard me on several occasions including use of force incidents if you follow the continuum of the scale no problem.
Training??? What is this training you speak of? Where have you trained? Who is teaching that you can shoot anyone in your home at any time without fear of legal repercussion? No competent attorney would? No reputable firearms instructor would. Did your "trainer" also tell you that if you shoot someone at the door to drag the body across the threshold so you're in the clear legally? I'm really curious to know who is teaching this.
You need to reread my comment mr white really you do and I am really curious as to why you have not only impugned my statement but are taking a adversarial stand to encountering an intruder in your home in the middle of the night if so do you lock your doors if yes why????
My step daughter and her live-in boyfriend walked to a local bar for drinks. She had two drinks, IIRC. On the way home they had a dispute and parted paths. That's the last of her memory until she awoke to strange faces in a strange living room. Someone had drugged her drink (she had a toxicology test).

I'm very thankful she didn't wander into the homes of some of these posters.
How do you know she did were you there?
 
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