starnbar
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Burglary in Fl is a forcible felony
Pro's and con's of announcing to an intruder that you're armed
- Thread starter old lady new shooter
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Yeah.
Son, you are making too many assumptions.
Yes, so if you have a reasonable belief that a burglary is imminent, according to the statute, you can use deadly force.
Be careful with that. Because you could be in jail until a judge or jury decides what is reasonable, and if they have a different idea of what's reasonable, you could end up in prison.
And if you do get off you can lose your money to your attorneys or to the dead guy's family in a civil suit.
Nobody wins a gun fight. Everybody loses something. It would be wise to avoid it, if possible.
I enjoyed the Death Wish movies as much as anybody, but they weren't a documentary.
old lady new shooter
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Thankfully that didn't apply to the little old lady weightlifter who whomped her intruder with a coffee table.
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/pow...-alone-but-guess-what-im-tough-233335527.html
No duty to retreat inside the home in NYS. There was such a duty in MA years ago.Thankfully that didn't apply to the little old lady weightlifter who whomped her intruder with a coffee table.
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/pow...-alone-but-guess-what-im-tough-233335527.html
IF you have reason to believe that the use of such force is immediately necessary to prevent the unlawful entry.
That is an inside straight that I would not try to fill.
old lady new shooter
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This is the key point IMO. Every situation is different. If you just see a person in your house but don't know how or when they got in, verbal communication seems like a good idea. OTOH, if you observe two or more people throwing your patio furniture against your sliding glass door until it breaks so they can get in, that's clearly a violent forcible entry and you better do something before the next thing they break is YOU.
Coyote3855
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They don't have all the answers and are occasionally dead wrong, but NRA Personal Protection in the Home lesson plan recommends verbal warnings.
old lady new shooter
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Including stating that you are armed?
gwpercle
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I don't watch you tube video's .
Shoot first ... introduce yourself later .
I do enjoy racking that 12 ga. pump shotgun ... in the dark of my house ...it makes a noise that say's it all !
Gary
Shoot first ... introduce yourself later .
I do enjoy racking that 12 ga. pump shotgun ... in the dark of my house ...it makes a noise that say's it all !
Gary
The Night Rider
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AJC1
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So to relate this to topic, I would have announced to her several times while outside that she did not belong there. Then she would have had to break into my home. Further she would have had to continue aggressive behavior and advancing. Is this unreasonable for a person drugged and not in control of their situation, yes. Does that mean I'm going to let her continue no. In a SD situation all parties are responsible for their actions.
The Night Rider
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Not when one of the parties was drugged against their will
AJC1
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By that logic they could murder me or my children and I'm just forced to watch just in case. That's not knowledge that would be reasonable for you to have. Also has zero to do with topic which in a broader sense is proper escalation of force.
Yes it is, but Florida law defines burglary different than trespass which is not a forcible felony:
https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2020/0810.02
810.02 Burglary.—
(1)(a) For offenses committed on or before July 1, 2001, “burglary” means entering or remaining in a dwelling, a structure, or a conveyance with the intent to commit an offense therein, unless the premises are at the time open to the public or the defendant is licensed or invited to enter or remain.
(b) For offenses committed after July 1, 2001, “burglary” means:
1. Entering a dwelling, a structure, or a conveyance with the intent to commit an offense therein, unless the premises are at the time open to the public or the defendant is licensed or invited to enter; or
2. Notwithstanding a licensed or invited entry, remaining in a dwelling, structure, or conveyance:
a. Surreptitiously, with the intent to commit an offense therein;
b. After permission to remain therein has been withdrawn, with the intent to commit an offense therein; or
c. To commit or attempt to commit a forcible felony, as defined in s. 776.08.
(2) Burglary is a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life imprisonment or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084, if, in the course of committing the offense, the offender:
(a) Makes an assault or battery upon any person; or
(b) Is or becomes armed within the dwelling, structure, or conveyance, with explosives or a dangerous weapon; or
(c) Enters an occupied or unoccupied dwelling or structure, and:
1. Uses a motor vehicle as an instrumentality, other than merely as a getaway vehicle, to assist in committing the offense, and thereby damages the dwelling or structure; or
2. Causes damage to the dwelling or structure, or to property within the dwelling or structure in excess of $1,000.
(3) Burglary is a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084, if, in the course of committing the offense, the offender does not make an assault or battery and is not and does not become armed with a dangerous weapon or explosive, and the offender enters or remains in a:
(a) Dwelling, and there is another person in the dwelling at the time the offender enters or remains;
(b) Dwelling, and there is not another person in the dwelling at the time the offender enters or remains;
(c) Structure, and there is another person in the structure at the time the offender enters or remains;
(d) Conveyance, and there is another person in the conveyance at the time the offender enters or remains;
(e) Authorized emergency vehicle, as defined in s. 316.003; or
(f) Structure or conveyance when the offense intended to be committed therein is theft of a controlled substance as defined in s. 893.02. Notwithstanding any other law, separate judgments and sentences for burglary with the intent to commit theft of a controlled substance under this paragraph and for any applicable possession of controlled substance offense under s. 893.13 or trafficking in controlled substance offense under s. 893.135 may be imposed when all such offenses involve the same amount or amounts of a controlled substance.
There is a section defining Prima Facia evidence during a trial on the charge of burglary that says if the offender entered or attempted to enter stealthily it's evidence that the offender entered with the intent to commit an offense.
Note that to meet the elements of the offense of burglary the intruder must have entered with the intent to commit an offense therein.
810.07 Prima facie evidence of intent.—
(1) In a trial on the charge of burglary, proof of the entering of such structure or conveyance at any time stealthily and without consent of the owner or occupant thereof is prima facie evidence of entering with intent to commit an offense.
(2) In a trial on the charge of attempted burglary, proof of the attempt to enter such structure or conveyance at any time stealthily and without the consent of the owner or occupant thereof is prima facie evidence of attempting to enter with intent to commit an offense.
History.—s. 5, ch. 4405, 1895; GS 3287; RGS 5121; CGL 7222; s. 1, ch. 70-29; s. 33, ch. 74-383; s. 44, ch. 87-243.
This is the definition of Trespass in Florida law:
https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2020/0810.08
810.08 Trespass in structure or conveyance.—
(1) Whoever, without being authorized, licensed, or invited, willfully enters or remains in any structure or conveyance, or, having been authorized, licensed, or invited, is warned by the owner or lessee of the premises, or by a person authorized by the owner or lessee, to depart and refuses to do so, commits the offense of trespass in a structure or conveyance.
(2)(a) Except as otherwise provided in this subsection, trespass in a structure or conveyance is a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
(b) If there is a human being in the structure or conveyance at the time the offender trespassed, attempted to trespass, or was in the structure or conveyance, the trespass in a structure or conveyance is a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
(c) If the offender is armed with a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or arms himself or herself with such while in the structure or conveyance, the trespass in a structure or conveyance is a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. Any owner or person authorized by the owner may, for prosecution purposes, take into custody and detain, in a reasonable manner, for a reasonable length of time, any person when he or she reasonably believes that a violation of this paragraph has been or is being committed, and he or she reasonably believes that the person to be taken into custody and detained has committed or is committing such violation. In the event a person is taken into custody, a law enforcement officer shall be called as soon as is practicable after the person has been taken into custody. The taking into custody and detention by such person, if done in compliance with the requirements of this paragraph, shall not render such person criminally or civilly liable for false arrest, false imprisonment, or unlawful detention.
(3) As used in this section, the term “person authorized” means any owner or lessee, or his or her agent, or any law enforcement officer whose department has received written authorization from the owner or lessee, or his or her agent, to communicate an order to depart the property in the case of a threat to public safety or welfare.
History.—s. 34, ch. 74-383; s. 22, ch. 75-298; s. 2, ch. 76-46; s. 1, ch. 77-132; s. 33, ch. 88-381; s. 185, ch. 91-224; s. 1233, ch. 97-102; s. 4, ch. 2000-369.
So how do you know that the person you just shot was committing the forcible felony of burglary and wasn't simply trespassing. It's a big legal difference. Burglary=forcible felony and deadly force legally permitted. Trespass=misdemeanor deadly force not legally permitted.
How do you know the intent of the intruder? We had an interesting case that was exactly this scenario not long before I retired. One night a property owner noticed lights on in his late mother's home down the road from his house. He armed himself with a Glock 19 and went down to investigate. He found a man in his mother's house and shot him in the leg. Illinois law says burglary is a forcible felony and deadly force is legally permitted. It didn't have to be the man's home. However, it was storming that night and the victim claimed he entered the house to get out of the storm. Nothing was taken. Nothing had been moved in the house to suggest the victim intended to steal anything. The states attorney at the time was pro-gun and pro-self defense and sent it to the grand jury who declined to indict the property owner. However he told me that if he had presented the case differently there would have been an easy indictment.
Every situation is different. Absent any clear cut evidence that the intruder entered to harm someone in the home a verbal challenge will help you avoid legal repercussions.
The Night Rider
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Ok
Howland937
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What's that old saying?
"Just because you can doesn't mean you should"?
Something like that?
No longer a duty to retreat in Ohio. Stand your ground. Castle doctrine. Whatever.
My preference would be to give an option of not being shot, which would require my announcing that they "will be shot" if they don't cease their current activity. Then there's also the preference not to have the legal, financial, and emotional trauma that would likely result if an intruder is shot.
Of course my preferences would be irrelevant in certain circumstances... such as an armed group clearing my house room by room. In which case I ain't saying a word.
"Just because you can doesn't mean you should"?
Something like that?
No longer a duty to retreat in Ohio. Stand your ground. Castle doctrine. Whatever.
My preference would be to give an option of not being shot, which would require my announcing that they "will be shot" if they don't cease their current activity. Then there's also the preference not to have the legal, financial, and emotional trauma that would likely result if an intruder is shot.
Of course my preferences would be irrelevant in certain circumstances... such as an armed group clearing my house room by room. In which case I ain't saying a word.
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old lady new shooter
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Gee, when I read the account I figured she was abducted to the unfamiliar house by the people who drugged her.
Gun-Reck
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Always be polite to guests, even those uninvited, that go bump in the night, while out on parole.
"Everybody gets one, before anyone gets seconds."
Manners matter.
To gain entry to my home one must cross a big lawn, crawl through razor-sharp thorns to reach secure locked windows, then smash through reinforced steel doors with multiple strong locks. There are three people who have keys and two of us are here now. Anyone else in my home at 3:00 am is not visiting for tea and cake.
The household where she ended were very accommodating, cooperated with LE, and totally transparent.
She was obviously no threat.
If this is in response to my post, you obviously don't live in a resort area.
AJC1
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Living in a place like bourbon street in LA would likely make these accidental intruder incidents very likely.... it would be silly not to adjust your security plan and initial approach accordingly.
No, it was a general comment and not directed at anyone.
Now that you have quoted me…my home would be incredibly difficult to enter whether at the beach, in the mountains, in the city, in the country, or in the desert. It would take a very committed and focused individual.
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