prove me wrong

[mustang_steve]

Prices should be calc'd in k-level quantities...as in per 1,000.

Bullets, primers and powder are price x1 for obvious reasons.
brass is price /3 for average number of times it can be re-used.

Reloading gear is not cheap, but it pays itself off for someone that shoots a lot regularly.

Even more savings can be had if you cast your own lead (and the local range you use permits lead ball ammo). Lead can be had quite cheaply in bulk...melting it is pretty easy, and so is casting it.

The thing is, right now everyone is in a "OMG they're gunna ban our guuuuuuns" mode and buying up all the ammo and components they can get. This has lead to pretty ridiculous prices on everything.

Really, reloading and casting your own bullets is the most economical, as the price of lead hasn't jumped up as drastically as other things.

 

[jcwit]

Brass can be reloaded many, many more times than 3. I have pistol brass thats been reloaded at least 100 times, and have rifle brass at over 60 times now.

 

[MMCSRET]

jcwit has it down, I also retired early and I can shoot when ever the urge hits me, usually weekdays as I don't have anyone else at the range on monday or tuesday mornings. I cast bullets for everything I shoot and I have over 140 sets of dies. Its fun, how can I charge for fun? How many of you charge yourself for watching a sunday ball game? Since its sunday its time and a half or possibly double time and a half or at the very least comp time on a weekday, how does that work for you? it probably doesn't unless you are self employed.
Venison at $67.00 a pound or pheasants at $39.00 each, sound about right? Gotta count the "TIME"!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Arkansas Paul]

In my opinion, if you're worried about how much your time is worth, you don't need to be reloading. I enjoy it. It is becoming as much a hobby to me as shooting. MMCSRET has it right. It's fun for most of us. If it isn't for you, go buy it at the store. I really don't shoot enough to justify it. I just plain enjoy it.

 

[Frankl03]

I enjoy shooting and reloading. Also I haven't purchased brass in a while. I pick it up at the range. I have a couple thousand 223 brass and 800-1000 .308 brass. The stuff that I pick up that I don't shoot I sell and put the money into other components.

I just made up some match ammo and shot my first sub MOA group with. It was very rewarding. I shoot mostly hand loaded ammo. I have some store bought laying around but I don't shoot it. I do have some brown bear I'm using up in my PTR 91. But when its gone I will be shooting the hand loaded in it.

 

[Smokin Gator]

Most of us regular working Joe's aren't earning pay 24 hours a day. If you can work overtime whenever you want and make enough to buy the amount of ammo you need, and would rather work than reload, great. But, It seems that usually the people who talk about how valuable their time is, are also the first ones to say that they can't afford to spend even a few hundred bucks on some reloading gear. Think about what's it's costing you to catch some sleep every night!!! Mark

 

[Ed Ames]

Most of the "but your time has value" arguments are, if not wrong, misleading.

Your time has only the value people are willing to pay for it...

Some people have no problem finding a reasonably attractive price for every minute of their day. A good lawyer, reasonable doctor, etc. can bill hundreds per hour and fill every waking hour.

Most people are lucky if they can get $20/hr before taxes, or maybe $15/hr take home.... and they can't find buyers for much more than 40 hours a week. Something well over 10% right now can't find buyers for even that much.

At $15 take home, you would need to be able to reload ~40 rounds of our sample 30-30 per hour to break even. At $40/hr take-home you'd need to reload something like 100 rds/hr of those 30-30 rds to break even. In other words, to reach the point where you would be money ahead to take an hour off at work to reload instead of working that hour and buying factory ammo.

Those rates are easily reached with basic tools.

My preferred reloading tool is a lee hand press. That's the $25 thing that doesn't need a table. As you can imagine, it's on the slow side. With that and a digital powder measure/scale combo I can easily load 100 or more .454 casull in an hour. How much would I have to be paid to break even with the savings involved in reloading?

 

[kanook]

When I reload, it is a load that cannot be readily store bought. So in a sense it's "custom ammo".

How much does Buffalo Bore, Cor-bon, Hornady, ect... get for some of their "custom ammo" that cost way to much and is rarely found. Most of the reloaders I know have a "custom load" and will not purchase store bought.

 

[MT GUNNY]

Quote; Correct me if I'm wrong but single stage press means only 1 bullet at a time?

Actually 1 Round per 2 to 3 strokes! IE; Size, Expand in some cases, Seat and or Crimp.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Your time has only the value people are willing to pay for it...

No, my time has value to me as well. If I want to invest 8 hours reloading to save some cash I can do that. But perhaps I'd rather spend that 8 hours doing something else that I value more.

If reloading is an activity that has a high enough level of enjoyment then sure, it's time well spent to some. To others, the activity is simply a means to an end and for that person the money spent on factory ammo buys back that time to do something else with.

That's why I say that the financial arguments for or against reloading are all silly. You either like doing it or you don't, it's not financial.

 

[SSN Vet]

Who buys .30-30 brass?

I go to the movies and pay $10 for 2 hours of fun....

I go into my "cave" and have just as much, if not more fun, so shouldn't I add that $10 as savings?

I got into reloading because I thought I'd save money and learn a lot...

I got deeper into reloading, because it's fun, I learn a lot and I can afford to shoot more.

My initial set up with a LCT press and dies for .30-30 and .357/.38spc cost me something like $250.

 

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

OK, to do a little math. For curiosity. I want to know the following:

How much does it cost for all the equipment required to load 45acp?
How much does it cost for the powder, primer and bullets to make 20,000 rounds of it?
How much do 5,000 45acp brass cases cost?

I figure using a case average of 4 times. It is not always practical especially at public ranges, to pick up every case every time so I'd say 4x fired is a good lifespan.

 

[jcwit]

That's why I say that the financial arguments for or against reloading are all silly. You either like doing it or you don't, it's not financial.

Well with you not knowing anything about my finances all I can say is you do not know what you're talking about regarding my situation.

 

[lobo9er]

prices also reflect how are dollar is losing buying power.

 

[Smokin Gator]

Some people are in the financial postition to buy sufficient ammunition for all of their shooting. The time they don't spend reloading can be spent putting rounds down range or enjoying some other activity or for that matter, just relaxing. For THOSE people you are correct. Many other shooters may or may not actually enjoy reloading, but over the course of years, once the initial start up costs are absorbed,reloading allows them to shoot a lot more. I shoot in several different types of competition and there are plenty of people who reload because otherwise they wouldn't be able to shoot in as many matches, plus practice sessions. For them it is definitly not just a silly financial consideration. Reloading is a necessary chore for some and an enjoyable part of the hobby for others. Also, for people who make a couple of trips to the range a year, reloading probably doesn't make sense. I do happen to also enjoy reloading myself. Mark

 

[jcwit]

OK, to do a little math. For curiosity. I want to know the following:

How much does it cost for all the equipment required to load 45acp?
How much does it cost for the powder, primer and bullets to make 20,000 rounds of it?
How much do 5,000 45acp brass cases cost?

I figure using a case average of 4 times. It is not always practical especially at public ranges, to pick up every case every time so I'd say 4x fired is a good lifespan.

Well if we're going to use this logic we also have to enclude the price of the firearm and put an estimate as to how many rounds it'll fire before its due for retirement.

Just how can you add in the cost of the equiment not knowing what calibers you may use it for in the future?

If you're only using your brass 4 times please let me know as I'll be more than willing to take them off your hands for free of course as you're going to throw them away anyway.

Cost to reload 20,000 rounds of 45 ACP?

Cases------------------------------$ .00----Already have them--Cost for all I own (0)
Primers-----------------------------$ .01----Already have them also
Powder-----------------------------$ .005---Have that too
Bullets------------------------------$ .00----Have the lead, will have to cast a few more

Total about $300.00

 

[Nicodemus38]

maybe i should have been a little more thought provoking with my original post.

at this time in michigan, every brick and mortar store from dunhams to walmart to to the local mom and pop store are giving huge complications from ammo. they love to tell everyone that listens that the box of ammo they have priced so high is because the manufacturer cant produce ammo enough, or cant afford to load large amounts of it due to cost for companents.

so i priced two very popular rounds using cabelas.com to find prices, sans shipping which varies depending on where its shipped to.
i was hoping that someone would be able to explain to me that if im able to get teh same components the factory uses to load ammo, then why is there a "shortage" at the store for loaded ammuntion?

 

[shawn21]

thats why u call the store before u go to get things thay do not have

 

[SuperNaut]

Due to the ammo shortage I haven't been able to shoot when and what I wanted. I have gotten into reloading so that this will never happen to me again. I don't care about the PITA factor, I don't care about savings, I don't care about wild-catting, all I care about is availability.

 

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

Cases------------------------------$ .00----Already have them--Cost for all I own (0)
Primers-----------------------------$ .01----Already have them also
Powder-----------------------------$ .005---Have that too
Bullets------------------------------$ .00----Have the lead, will have to cast a few more

Total about $300.00

Cost for a new soda you made me spit out laughing is .75c!

Come on man, no way you can load 20,000 rounds for $300. That's nowhere close to realistic, sorry. Those materials cost you something at some point. I highly doubt you found 20,000 rounds worth of primer powder and lead.

Does anyone have any realistic calculation, for a new guy like me, assuming I use the cases say 5 times, my handgun range has other people in ports next to me, also some brass will fly past the firing line and not be retrieved so I figure 5 uses is a good estimate. I am buying the powder, primers, and bullets in 2009 not 1999 also. Current day prices for a new guy.

 

[Smokin Gator]

Here's my recent costs for loading 200gr lead SWC bullets in 45 acp. These prices are on the high side, but realistic. Bullets about 7cents each, primers at 4 cents each, powder even at 25 dollars per pound is less than 2 cents per round, the cases don't add a lot of cost even if you buy them when you consider how many times they can be reloaded. Even including a little cost per case it comes out to under $7 per 50 round box. Usually you can get powder cheaper and in some areas at this time primers are cheaper (not where I am unfortunately). You might be able to get bullets locally for less. As I said these numbers are on the high side. Smaller calibers are cheaper. Of course if you have a stockpile of components that you bought in years past your cost is a lot less, but if you bought all new comoponents right now, this would be more realistic. Mark

 

[evan price]

How much does it cost for all the equipment required to load 45acp?
How much does it cost for the powder, primer and bullets to make 20,000 rounds of it?
How much do 5,000 45acp brass cases cost?

Lee Pro-1000 progressive press setup for .45 ACP : $160
Powder check scale : $20
Stainless Steel dial calipers (Harbor Freight) : $10
Misc plastic bins, jars, coffee cans etc. : Free

Total equipment required to start out loading .45 ACP : $200 (rounded up)

Supplies to START to load 1000 .45 acp:

1000 1x fired, tumbled cases from Evan Price : $75 shipped
1000 Large Pistol primers : $35
.67# of pistol powder : $10
1000 Missouri Bullet Co. lead 230-grain RN projectiles : $80 w/THR discount

Total cost of supplies to load 1000 45 acp: $200
That's 20 cents a shot, or $10.00 a box of 50 rounds.

Bear in mind that unless you lose them, .45 acp cases loaded to target velocities will result in cases that last almost forever. I've got .45 cases that have been loaded so many times the headstamp is almost unreadable.
If you scrounge your own cases at the range you can eliminate this cost from your equation.


Cost of equipment to set up your own bullet-casting works:

Turkey Fryer setup with burner and regulator : $40
Stainless Steel pot to melt lead at junk shop : $5
Stainless steel ladle and slotted spoon : $8
Ingot Molds (AKA muffin tins) : $7
Lee 6-cavity bullet mold and handles : $50
Lee lead melting pot, electric : $40

Total cost of equipment to make your own bullets : $150

Cost of bullets when you cast 1000 of your own .45 230-RN bullets...
Cost of wheel weight lead/50# : $5
Cost of propane/electircity to melt lead : $2
Cost of lube for tumble-lubing : $negligible call it $1 but much less

Total cost of 1000 .45 acp 230-rn bullets you cast yourself : under $8
Each bullet costs less than a penny, or roughly, 1/10 the cost of buying them from a caster.


Cost for Evan Price to load up 1000 .45 ACP:

Bullets : Cast myself from WW lead I scrounged
Primers : Bought in bulk before the shortage
Powder : Bought in bulk 8# kegs before the shortage
Cases : Scrounged at the range, freebie, zip, zero, nada.
Total cost per shot : Approximately 4 cents each (rounded up)

Total cost for Evan Price's .45 acp per box of 50: $2.00


HOWEVER! If you start reloading with the intention that you will somehow "save money" it's a false belief. You will just shoot more. But is that really all that bad?

Folks that try to justify reloading with an involved and convoluted cost/benefit analysis featuring a cost per hour for your time, are deceiving themselves. With reloading, you either get it, or you don't. You reload because you see a benefit or you don't.

As for me, there's many reasons to reload, the ability to tailor the load to your needs is one, the economy is another, but the best is that maybe someday you won't be able to go buy 1000 rounds of .45 at the store. Being in control of your own destiny is worth something that is impossible to put a price on.

As far as should you reload or not, hell, nobody but you can answer that. It's either something you want to do or it isn't.

 

[JoeSlomo]

The original argument was that reloading saved money. It does not, especially with the low volume systems. It's fun, it's entertaining, it's relaxing, it's better for accuracy most of the time but you can't argue that it saves any money since your time has value.

It saves money for me, though I can't argue how others value their time.

I can load 100 rounds for around $15.00, which is about half of what WWB costs. I can EASILY load 100 rounds in a half hour, and average about 200 per hour with a dillon progressive reloader at a relaxed and thorough pace.

I find reloading to be relaxing and use it to settle down after a day of work.

When you add the time it takes to drive to the store, wait in line for service, and drive back, the price of fuel, etc, re-loading is cheaper and time better spent imo.

I would NOT be able to shoot as much as I do if I didn't reload.

 

[jcwit]

Quote:
Cases------------------------------$ .00----Already have them--Cost for all I own (0)
Primers-----------------------------$ .01----Already have them also
Powder-----------------------------$ .005---Have that too
Bullets------------------------------$ .00----Have the lead, will have to cast a few more

Total about $300.00

Cost for a new soda you made me spit out laughing is .75c!

Come on man, no way you can load 20,000 rounds for $300. That's nowhere close to realistic, sorry. Those materials cost you something at some point. I highly doubt you found 20,000 rounds worth of primer powder and lead.

Does anyone have any realistic calculation, for a new guy like me, assuming I use the cases say 5 times, my handgun range has other people in ports next to me, also some brass will fly past the firing line and not be retrieved so I figure 5 uses is a good estimate. I am buying the powder, primers, and bullets in 2009 not 1999 also. Current day prices for a new guy.

Cost of primers at a store going out of business 5/6 years ago, a little less than $50 for 5000 primers, guess that works out to 1 cent a round. BTW I bought them out and more than likely have enough to last the rest of my lifetime.

Cost of powder, purchased a few years ago $8 a lb. 32 lbs plus $20 hazmet came to $276 bucks. That comes out to $8.63 a lb. right? Averaging 5 grains of powder to a 45 acp thats .006 cents per case charge.

Cost of lead for bullets, free, help clean the indoor range I'm a member at.

Cost of brass, free, pickups fromindoor and outdoor ranges I belong to. Do I have 20,000 pcs of .45 acp, OOOOHHHHHH YYYAAAA

Cost to load 1 round of 45 acp, $ .016 cents times 20,000 rds equals $320 bucks.

Sorry man, but thats the facts. Need to buy another soda, man?

 

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

No, that was a good explaination why you got that stuff so cheap. Thank you jcwit and evan for the numbers, I will have to reconsider reloading as that is not very much money at all.