PSA AR 15 lower - what's next?

[sarduy]

This is going to be my one and only AR and I do not hunt. My only requirement is that the rifle be light, easy to maneuver and near 100% reliable with the widest variety of commercially available.ammo. That criteria led me to the original battle rifle configuration. However I am learning a lot here and I'm not going ignore improvements that have been made to the original. Things are beginning to come together.

So far barrel length in the 16"- 18" range is acceptable. The carry handle is beginning to lose its appeal if it limits future options for better sights and optics. Finally it appears that the Wylde chamber with 1/7 twist is best suited for all kinds of 5.56/223 ammo?

I see some barrels are stainless steel and range from tapered to heavy. Any thoughts on that?

Charlie, this is what I would recommend for you, since it's going to be your only AR,

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-classic-m4-freedom-upper-with-bcg-and-charging-handle.html

Or this one

https://www.opticsplanet.com/aero-p...ndgua.html?_iv_code=29D-UFH-YM114K-APAR505721

Same configuration, just get one of the new MBUS magpul rear sight and call it a day.

Use it and use it hard until the barrel is done , you can shoot 556 and 223 brass and steel, once the barrel needs shot out you will have enough experience with a the AR to know what you want yo change and what you want to keep, you can always get a new barrel, rail and optics later on.

Spend your money on ammo, mags, sling and training...

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

If reliability and cost are major determinants, skip 7.62x39 (and all the other calibers except maybe 9mm).
.223/5.56 is, and will likely continue to be, THE cheapest centerfire rifle ammo there is.
7.62x39 prices have skyrocketed since the supplies from Russia have been cut off- and they probably aint coming back. Also, the bolts and barrels are much more expensive and the magazines over 10-15 rounds dont play well with standard AR magwells.

 

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

Coincidently, I ordered a PSA complete A2 lower yesterday myself----I'm still deciding if I want a cheap ol upper to use and abuse or go with one of the FN barreled premium uppers.

I was originally thinking a 20in gov't style upper----but the mid length with the std handguards has kind of caught my eye too---maybe throw a carry handle on the flat top too.

Mainly just a new toy to play with.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Coincidently, I ordered a PSA complete A2 lower yesterday myself----I'm still deciding if I want a cheap ol upper to use and abuse or go with one of the FN barreled premium uppers.

I was originally thinking a 20in gov't style upper----but the mid length with the std handguards has kind of caught my eye too---maybe throw a carry handle on the flat top too.

Mainly just a new toy to play with.

Having 16, 18, and 20 inchers- my last 2 builds were 18" Wylde stainless medium profile tubes and man, they hit a sweet spot!
If I were gunna start all over and build just one gun for all occasions, I would use that barrel again.

 

[2ndtimer]

I guess the OP needs to decide if he wants an original A2 look alike (20” barrel, rifle length gas system, fixed butt stock) or the more current M4 carbine configuration (16” barrel, carbine or mid length gas system, adjustable butt stock). Add on a removable rear sight handle and good to go. I would recommend either a 1 in 8” or 1 in 7” twist rate if you plan to shoot bullets heavier than 62 grains. If you plan on shooting just cheap 55 gr FMJ or lighter Varmint bullets, a 1 in 9” twist should be fine. Either the 5.56 NATO or .223 Wylde chamberings can handle all .223 Rem and 5.56 NATO. (5.56 NATO usually has the 1 in 7” twist rates currently). FWIW, my two most accurate AR’s are 5.56 NATO and have 1 in 8” twists, while my least accurate is a 1 in 7” .223 Wylde, the 1 in 9” 5.56 NATO is slightly more accurate than the Wylde. So, obviously, YMMV.

 

[JShirley]

Having 16, 18, and 20 inchers- my last 2 builds were 18" Wylde stainless medium profile tubes and man, they hit a sweet spot!
If I were gunna start all over and build just one gun for all occasions, I would use that barrel again.

If you had only one, 16-18" is a good bet. Remember that a 16" barrel plus some sort of muzzle device will usually equal at least 17.5", and often more.

With a, uh, "few" AR15s, I have begun appreciating 10-12" AR "pistols" a lot.

John

 

[Charlie Martinez]

I started out wanting an A2 look alike but to be honest this is my very first rodeo with the AR platform and I knew practically nothing about it. This forum has been a huge help (again) in learning from the guys that know.

The PSA Freedom Upper suggested by sarduy looks just like what I first started looking for. However it sells for $259 (including tax) plus shipping. It also appears to not have a rear sight or a carry handle so at least the rear sight needs to be added to the price later.

I found several choices at Bear Creek Armory that are not A2 look alike but seem wiser choices for me (all of them sell for $210 to $220, no tax, free shipping).
Basically the differences between them are:
1. .223 Wylde or 5.56 NATO
2. Black Nitride vs Parkerized finish
2. 1:7 or 1:8 twist
3. Mid-length or Carbine-length gas system
4. MLOK from 11.5" to 15"

I will need a front and rear sights and the rail will probably accommodate a removable carry handle if I want.

I don't see how I could go wrong with one of these but I will wait for comments before I order.

 

[Charlie98]

The PSA Freedom Upper suggested by sarduy looks just like what I first started looking for. However it sells for $259 (including tax) plus shipping. It also appears to not have a rear sight or a carry handle so at least the rear sight needs to be added to the price later.

I found several choices at Bear Creek Armory that are not A2 look alike but seem wiser choices for me (all of them sell for $210 to $220, no tax, free shipping).
Basically the differences between them are:
1. .223 Wylde or 5.56 NATO
2. Black Nitride vs Parkerized finish
2. 1:7 or 1:8 twist
3. Mid-length or Carbine-length gas system
4. MLOK from 11.5" to 15"

I will need a front and rear sights and the rail will probably accommodate a removable carry handle if I want.

I don't see how I could go wrong with one of these but I will wait for comments before I order.

I'm in the camp that I'd rather be able to pick my own sights, than pay for something it comes with that I don't need. Often you will see the M-BUS sights provided... I'm not a big fan of those and would replace them, anyway. Only you know what you want for sights.

Of those choices... I'd take the Wylde chamber, because it's supposed to be universal. Finish doesn't mean anything to me... pick one. I'd take the 1:8" twist over 1:7", and particularly if you plan to shoot 55grn ammos in it. Mid-length gas... absolutely. MLOK seems to have won over KeyMod, so that's OK. As far as the length, it needs to cover the gas block if it doesn't have an A1 front sight. You didn't mention barrel length... I'd just pick a 16" barrel and call it a day, rather than something shorter with a pinned and welded muzzle device.

This is my PSA Freedom rifle kit I got a few weeks ago... it was assembled right, and shoots well. I like it...



It does have a 1:7" barrel... it is what it is. I'll see at the end of the month how well it does with 55grn at 100yds.

 

[JShirley]

I will say that I hate M-LOK. Magpul rail covers are literally the only thing I have been able to easily install on them.

 

[illinoisburt]

I don't see how I could go wrong with one of these but I will wait for comments before I order

For budget guns, any of them should be functional. There is a valid argument to go with the mlok free-floating forend with low profile gasblock rather than fixed A2 front sight and clamshell with rings. It gives you vastly more choices to add sights and accessories, plus you aren't limited to a specific forend length going forward.

 

[DMW1116]

I’ll mention this because it’s not clear whether you know or not. If you do, then disregard this.

The carry handle contains the rear sight. You don’t need to buy them separately.

If I wanted a carry handle rear sight, I would also want a front sight that was part of the gas block and attached directly to the barrel. These are the front sights like on @Charlie98 Freedom Rifle pictured above.

If iron sights were my only sighting system I would not want the front sight attached to the hand guard. That said my 16” upper came with MBUS front and rear sights and I’ve shot them out to 200 yards without a problem. I will say dedicated iron sight shooting is a slightly different skill set than with scopes or red dots.

 

[Charlie Martinez]

The barrel length for all is 16"

As far as the MLOK length I prefer (looks wise) the shorter 11.5 or 12" than the longer 15". However I suppose that the 15" length allows placement of the front sight further out for increased sight radius. Is 3" increase in SR enough to make a significant difference? I will gladly sacrifice looks if it does.

The item description does not mention anything about a low profile gasblock.

 

[Charlie Martinez]

I think I finally narrowed it down to the 16" Wylde/1:8/12" hand guard with the rails.

I will need sights and DMW1116 makes a lot of sense when he suggests not placing the front sight on the hand guard. Are there any front sights that can be mounted directly on the barrel? I didn't see any at BCA. What are my options?

I have a 1.5 power Weaver and a Tasco 4 power scope that I can put on it but if I do i would also want iron sights.

 

[Mk-211]

PRI makes some good but expensive sights.

https://www.precisionreflex.com/81-ar15-gas-block-sight

 

[wesmonster]

As much as I love the 'old school' look of a Vietnam era AR, a modern railed upper is much more practical. If you want to stick with a fixed fron site (FSB) and a fixed rear you've got a ton of options, or a rear flip down and a red dot or reflex sight. I do prefer an A2 rifle length buffer setup but there's also some nice aftermarket stocks besides the std. A2 stock with a meat tenderizer buttplate.

Weren't most of the 20" barrels issued in a 1/12 twist? That's hard to find today but I have seen em. Personally I'd do a 1/8 or 1/9 in a 16" barrel, I have a 14.5" 1/7 that loves 69 grain but my old RRA 16" HBAR in 1/9 shot plain ol 55 grain better.
Not eveyone does the Wylde chamber, my RRA had one, but if you find the upper you like I wouldn't pass on it just cause it doesn't have a Wylde chamber.

Barrel lining / coating is another factor, hard chrome lining is durable and holds up to heavy use like mag dumps, but IMHO the newer melanite or nitride coatings are almost as durable and cheaper. Hard chrome is expensive and is a thick coating which won't do your accuracy any good. Unlined is best choice for accuracy but most of mine are melonite or nitrided.

 

[12Bravo20]

Weren't most of the 20" barrels issued in a 1/12 twist? That's hard to find today but I have seen em. Personally I'd do a 1/8 or 1/9 in a 16" barrel, I have a 14.5" 1/7 that loves 69 grain but my old RRA 16" HBAR in 1/9 shot plain ol 55 grain better.

The M16A1 barrels were 1-12 while the M16A2 are 1-7 twist. The only reason the US Military went with the 1-7 twist was to stabilize the longer 64 grain M856 tracer rounds. The M856 will not stabilize in a 1-9 twist barrel. To this day, a lot of barrel manufacturers use either 1-9 or 1-7 twist for their lower end barrels. You won't go wrong with a 1-9, 1-8 or 1-7 twist. The 1-7 will do better (most of the time) with longer and heavier bullets around 75 grains and heavier.

For a general purpose rifle 1-9, 1-8, or 1-7 will work just fine especially if you are mostly shooting bulk/surplus 55-62 grain ammo. I have both 1-7 and 1-9 twist barrels on my general purpose AR's and they do just fine. Don't over think rifle twist if you are using 55-62 grain ammo and/or want something to do mag dumps with at the range.

Now on my purpose built rifles for precision shooting, I went with the 223 Wylde chamber and 1-8 twist.

 

[illinoisburt]

The item description does not mention anything about a low profile gasblock.

Low profile gas block means the handguard fits over it. All of the free floats use the low profile blocks. Generally you want the forend long enough to cover the gas block. Anything past that is personal preference.

 

[illinoisburt]

I will need sights and DMW1116 makes a lot of sense when he suggests not placing the front sight on the hand guard. Are there any front sights that can be mounted directly on the barrel? I didn't see any at BCA. What are my options?

Pretty limited for barrel mounted. The industry kind of settled on either the standard A2 fixed front sight tower/gas block combo OR picatinny rail mounted sights (either fixed or flip-up). The gas block sights are rugged and generally inexpensive but the big caveat is normal installation involves drilling the barrel and pinning. So its no where as simple as the screw clamp or throw-lever of a rail sight. Best advise is try to work within the design you pick.

 

[mshootnit]

Finally started on my first AR-15. Purchased a new lower assembly from PSA and will begin searching for the ideal (for me) upper, either assembled or in parts, not sure.

I am not interested in a bench rest rifle or a varminter. Right now my intent is to assemble an AR that closely resembles the original battle rifle as issued to our GI's which means open sights, a carry handle and the original forearm configuration.

However I am a bit confused about barrel selection. Nearly all AR's come with 16" barrels but I believe the original as issued to our soldiers has a 20" barrel (which seems to also be the length recommended by TR's Clint Smith). I am also not very sure about the rate of twist. Barrels seem to range between 1:7 to 1:9 or so.
I am reaching out to the AR experts for suggestions.

Windham, FN 15, and Stag make or have made 20" Government uppers. If you get a 1:7 twist, shoot 62gr. and up ammo.

 

[mshootnit]

Vietnam vet here. I would like to have a M16A1 like I was issued but it is more practical to have a modern AR with adjustable stock and 16 inch barrel. My best is a DEL-TON in 5.56 and mid-length gas system. I also have a PSA that shoots well but I had to upgrade some parts on it. Also a flat top upper gives you optics options as most people prefer scopes now. I had a government profile 20-inch rifle it was accurate but it was heavy. I early issue ones were much lighter. For target shooting .223 is the best in my experience. 7.62x39 should have a curved magazine that doesn't fit an AR very well. The rounds are fatter and more tapered. But they are fairly common. Since an SKS is longer, heavier and not full auto among other things an odd choice for a tanker. But some of my friends did have captured weapons.

Colt SP1 is nice for a lighter 20"

 

[d2wing]

I think I finally narrowed it down to the 16" Wylde/1:8/12" hand guard with the rails.

I will need sights and DMW1116 makes a lot of sense when he suggests not placing the front sight on the hand guard. Are there any front sights that can be mounted directly on the barrel? I didn't see any at BCA. What are my options?

I have a 1.5 power Weaver and a Tasco 4 power scope that I can put on it but if I do i would also want iron sights.

I am an old guy so I don't bother with iron sights. Either a scope or red dot type sight is what I would do but nothing wrong about irons.

 

[DMW1116]

I'm pretty partial to PSA since I pass one of their retail stores for work regularly. The upper posted by @Charlie Martinez would be my pick, and it has free shipping, if I wanted to stick mainly to the ruggedness of iron sights. If I was entertaining any sort of optical sight like a low power variable or fixed power scope or 1x magnification red dot, I'd get a flat top upper with a gas block that fits under the hand guard. Optics can still be used with the front sight gas block. It might be visible in the optic, depending on magnification and type. Having it visible is considered an advantage for co-witnessing iron sights through a 1x red dot sight, though I've never done that so can't say if I'd like it.

For my first upper, I went flat top with MBUS flip up sights. I shot it with those sights for quite a while until I decided a 3-9x scope was too much for a 30-30 and put it on the AR. For my purposes, that was a magical combination. The MBUS rear sights sit under my scope and are zeroed at 50 yards. The scope gets turned up to 9x for testing hand loads, and down to 3x when testing myself. 4x through 8x don't see much use.

I got the 20" upper with the front sight gas block and added a carry handle rear sight specifically for shooting iron sights. The extra sight radius helps me shoot it and the extra barrel length gets a little more velocity from the different loads. My intent was to use mainly 55-grain bullets with it out to 300 yards. Since I don't have the advantage of magnification, I wanted the higher velocity and flatter trajectory out to my vision limit. I think the preference for rifles to shoot lighter bullets or heavier bullets better is individual rifle dependent. My 20" is a 1 in 7 inch twist and shoots 52-grain Barnes match bullets as good or better than 77-grain Sierra Match Kings. It detests 75-grain Hornady bullets, shooting them worse than basically anything else I've tried.

 

[kje54]

Finally started on my first AR-15. Purchased a new lower assembly from PSA and will begin searching for the ideal (for me) upper, either assembled or in parts, not sure.

I am not interested in a bench rest rifle or a varminter. Right now my intent is to assemble an AR that closely resembles the original battle rifle as issued to our GI's which means open sights, a carry handle and the original forearm configuration.

However I am a bit confused about barrel selection. Nearly all AR's come with 16" barrels but I believe the original as issued to our soldiers has a 20" barrel (which seems to also be the length recommended by TR's Clint Smith). I am also not very sure about the rate of twist. Barrels seem to range between 1:7 to 1:9 or so.
I am reaching out to the AR experts for suggestions.

Bear Creek Arsenal:

https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/calibers/5-56-nato/5-56-complete-uppers/20.html

 

[Charlie98]

Here's the difference in front sights...

My LW carbine has a barrel mounted rail, that I have my Troy folder on... that is the gas block with the rail.



My new PSA upper, pictured a few posts above, has the standard A1 sight/gas block, because it's getting a fixed or folder rear peep. FWIW, I test drove it with a red dot I have mounted on a QR rail, you can do that with the A1 sight and it is fine... it doesn't obscure your target or vision, but it doesn't allow any adaptability, either, like my railed gas block does.


Here are two photos of my DRM rifle I just finished... at first, I had a 12" KeyMod rail for it... until I realized it wasn't long enough...

Note the gas block is exposed...



Sure, it shoots just fine... until you reach out and grab hold of that hot gas block. My OCD wouldn't allow it, however, and I had to replace it with the proper 15" forearm.



Would 3" more rail help with accuracy? Not at 100-200yds... but once you get out past that, yes, every bit of sight advantage you can get will help.

 

[powermad]

The PSA premium uppers use FN barrels and are a good value from what I've seen so far.
Much nicer than the budget ones I have gotten from them.
They just had a bunch of sales and will again in a couple of weeks most likely.
The 14.7" was on sale for $350, the barrel alone if it's in stock is almost $300.
I almost bought another one as a spare, but kinda want a 20"
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...th-556-prem-ar15-upper-assembly-w-bcg-ch.html