Question about .357 Ruger Blackhawk

[JSH1]

Thank you for the explanation. I might look into a .44 if I was looking to hunt large game but I think it may be a bit much for punching holes in paper.

 

[CraigC]

What I took exception to was your comment that: ... the Single Six needs only a longer cylinder. That's it. More examination into the question discloses that something like $750 is involved, plus the cost of the basic gun, and that the platform maker (Ruger) won't touch the proposal with a ten-foot pole.

Seems to me that you are just being argumentative. You have obviously taken what I posted out of context and neglected to read the rest of the thread. Such as post #9. However, fact is, what I said is true. All the .32 Single Six needs is a longer cylinder. I don't know how much more plainly to put it. Because all it needs, is a longer cylinder. Now, if we know anything about revolvers, we KNOW that one does not just go to www.customcylinders.com, order a new cylinder and slap it in. The point being that the sixgun is not at its limits as a six-shot .327. Because what it does NOT need is an oversized five-shot cylinder, a hand-fitted bolt, a reinforced bearing block or bank vault tight lockup. Those are all things a large frame .475 or .500 needs. In the realm of custom revolvers, a .327 Single Six is a simple conversion and my statement was within that context.

However the ones I had were more balanced in terms of platform vs. cartridge, without seeing how close I could come to the outside limits of the package.

This is where I question your knowledge on this subject. I don't know how you come about this conclusion but your knowledge is obviously lacking. By what information do you base this? I have made several technical points as to why this conversion is NOT testing the limits and you have ignored them. As I've said several times now, if the .327 was at the Single Six's limit, it would be a five-shot with an enlarged frame window and oversized cylinder. It would have a bearing block. It would have a refitted bolt. It would be built like the five-shot .38's and .41's. It is not.

Even the customs that do test the outer limits of the platform do just fine. It's why they're built the way they are.

Also tell us how the Single Six is not a proper platform but the J-frame is, even though the Ruger's cylinder is slightly larger in diameter. Splain that, Lucy???

Also I tend to recommend choices that have a chance of becoming a reality, and don’t require having to mortgage the farm.

I wouldn't call a $700 job something requiring a 2nd mortgage. No, custom work ain't free but relatively speaking, that's a cheap conversion. If you can afford to buy another gun, you can afford a simple caliber conversion. Some folks prefer to have more guns, I prefer to have better guns. I prefer to let folks know what their options are and let THEM decide what they can and cannot afford.

This observation comes from understanding how the decision makers at most manufacturers think, and the first thing they are going to look at is, “How large is the potential market?” The second is, “Does it exceed any of our, or other industry standards?” As a practical matter a negative answer to either will end things right now.

I don't know why Ruger has not built a .327 Single Six and more importantly, neither do you. You assume it's not a strong enough platform and I think you do so out of ignorance more than anything else.

 

[Old Fuff]

I don't know why Ruger has not built a .327 Single Six and more importantly, neither do you.

Well now. If you don't know a phone call to Ruger's Customer Service Department should bring some enlightenment. You will find them by calling (203) 259-7843 or check out their website (www.ruger.com) for additional contact information.

You assume it's not a strong enough platform and I think you do so out of ignorance more than anything else.

I assume that a number of factors are involved, including issues concerning the platform and the lack of a viable market to support the developing, marketing and tooling expenses.

I have absolutely no objection to you assembling a collection of custom handguns, regardless of the number. And clearly it wouldn't make any difference if I did. However I try to suggest viable options that I hope are more valid for the substantial majority of those following this thread.

It’s sort of like if I suggested that everyone who was so inclined, go out and buy an expensive luxury sedan. Now they’re some who are well enough off to do exactly that, but they are far and away from being the majority.

Sometimes someone gets a bug to buy (or have made) something different. Seeking advice they turn to the Internet, where they will get plenty of opinions. If this leaves them confused I suggest that the ultimate advise they follow should be what they are told by the manufacturer who builds the proposed platform. If they don’t, (or even if the do) then the matter will rest between that individual and the “smith” who did the conversion. The gun company at this point is relieved of any responsibility or liability.

Are Ruger products often (if not always) over built? Yes indeed they are, but I have zero interest in trying to find out exactly where the line is drawn, especially when that company’s mid-size center fire S.A. revolver is a much less controversial option.

 

[CraigC]

If you don't know a phone call to Ruger's Customer Service Department should bring some enlightenment.

Yes, I'm sure that they share the reasons behind internal decisions with whomever calls them on the phone. Fact is, you don't know, yet you act as if you do but are only making assumptions. I have given technical reasons to the contrary and you have not.

It’s sort of like if I suggested that everyone who was so inclined, go out and buy an expensive luxury sedan. Now they’re some who are well enough off to do exactly that, but they are far and away from being the majority.

I suggested nothing. IT WAS THE OP that brought up the subject of custom Single Sixes as an alternative to paying big money for a discontinued large frame Blackhawk. Yet you act as if I'm pushing it down his throat. I really don't think you actually read the thread but jump upon your high horse in judgement of things you clearly do not understand. With zero supporting evidence.

I suggest that the ultimate advise they follow should be what they are told by the manufacturer who builds the proposed platform.

I suggest that it's merely a starting point. Sorry but the manufacturer is rarely the last word on any subject. It is simple fact that MUCH more is possible with a lot of platforms and the evidence to the contrary is non-existent.

I have zero interest in trying to find out exactly where the line is drawn

Me neither but we don't have to. That's what we have those people we call custom gunsmiths for. Again, you say that the Single Six would be at or over the limit with the .327 and yet all evidence contradicts your position. You have really offered nothing so far but an uninformed opinion.

 

[JSH1]

I suggested nothing. IT WAS THE OP that brought up the subject of custom Single Sixes as an alternative to paying big money for a discontinued large frame Blackhawk. Yet you act as if I'm pushing it down his throat. I really don't think you actually read the thread but jump upon your high horse in judgement of things you clearly do not understand. With zero supporting evidence.

Considering I am the OP on this thread let's be clear. I didn't bring up single sixes, you did in post #4

The Single Six is the better place for the .327 anyway.

I said I think the .327 Mag is too hot of a cartridge for the Single-Six and you proceeded to tell me and everyone else that we are wrong. Since I am interested in a .357 Blackhawk and not a Single-Six converted to .327 Mag; how about we agree to disagree and drop the subject?

Do you have any experience with 9mm conversion cylinders in a .357 Blackhawk? I like the idea but I'm want a stainless steel finish and Ruger only offers the combination in a Williams Shooters Supply exclusive model that I can't seem to find.

 

[CraigC]

The .357 convertibles are good guns but folks usually report less than stellar accuracy with the 9mm cylinder, due to the smaller nominal bullet diameter. The .45's tend to be better shooters.

I didn't bring up single sixes, you did in post #4

I did and you said that you'd rather spend $1200 on a Bowen Single Six than a large frame Blackhawk. I agree and that was the point I was trying to make. Paying $500 for a current production Blackhawk is one thing but double or more because it's been discontinued is silly. Not when one can procure a custom Single Six in the chambering for the same outlay and have a better result.

I have a correction to make, I know better than to trust internet numbers. A J-frame's cylinder is 1.30" in diameter, a Single Six is 1.42". So I'd love for OF to explain to me how the J-frame is an appropriate platform but the Single Six is not.

IMHO, none of this bickering is necessary.

 

[JSH1]

Update: No .357 Blackhawk for me at this time. I visited a local gun shop on my lunch break and Ruger SP101 in .32 H&R Mag followed me home.

 

[Manny]

Nice choice for a platform. I think the the various .32 Cal rounds are very interesting, and maybe the ideal selection to take the place of unobtanium .22lr if you're a reloader with access to enough components.

I handled one of those .32 H&R SP's once, very nice piece and had I the money it would have followed me home. Good luck with your new shooter, I think you'll have a lot of fun with it.

 

[Manny]

.44 special, as you can imagine, is a much larger bullet than the .357 magnum. They can be much heavier, to the tune of 300 grains or more while .357 magnum struggles with anything over 180 grains.

While it's true that the .357 bullets travel faster, the much more physically massive .44 special bullets are far more effective in every way especially at handgun energies.

Do some reading on Elmer Keith and you will find that he abandoned the .357 magnum handily and became much more interested in .44/.45 offerings later on, due to there much higher lethality against game animals of all sizes as well as human attackers. Not only that, but .44 special and .45 Colt are much more pleasant to shoot and are far easier on the ears than .357 magnum.

Bigger bullets just tend to work better!

As a huge fan of Keith, Linebaugh and all the other big bullet proponents I can certainly find a lot to agree with in your post, but not every use or job for a handgun requires the qualities they bring to the table. In my enthusiasm for the big bores, the only use I had for the the .38/.357 for years was for a snubby SP101 I kept for discrete carry. When the price of ammo escalated into the stratosphere and I turned to the 9mm/.38/.357 to keep shooting, I discovered what the fans of these mid-bores have known all along: That they are extremely efficient, capable and versatile. Able to handle most all shooting chores I have whilst stretching my shooting budget a whole lot further.

The fact that the guns are far trimmer and lighter, as is the ammo, just added to the list of reasons why I've developed such an affection for the handy little .38/.357. They're turning out to be the perfect round for almost any use I have. Perfect to feed my KLCR CCW gun, great fun to shoot in my 6" GP101 for a day at the range, and perfect for use in my newly Ohio legal deer rifles, a TC Contender & Ruger 77/357. My big bores seldom leave the safe anymore, and I feel very well equipped with my little mid-bores to deal with pretty much any situation I might encounter. JMHO.

 

[JSH1]

Nice choice for a platform. I think the the various .32 Cal rounds are very interesting, and maybe the ideal selection to take the place of unobtanium .22lr if you're a reloader with access to enough components.

I handled one of those .32 H&R SP's once, very nice piece and had I the money it would have followed me home. Good luck with your new shooter, I think you'll have a lot of fun with it.

I look at this gun as an equivalent to .22 Mag. As I said earlier, this gun will primarily be for punching paper but if I do get back into hunting .32 S&W Long should would work well for squirrels and rabbits and be reloadable. My SP101 has the 4" barrel that should help a bit with velocity and accuracy due to the longer sight radius.

I took it to the range today and shot 1 type of .32 H&R Mag and 5 types of .32 S&W Long at about 20 feet (7 paces) The Aguila S&W Long LRN grouped the best. (0.75" single action / 1.75" double action) Who would have thought that the cheapest and dirtiest ammo would group the best? I shot a total of 75 rounds before it got too dark. I really like this gun!

Now I just need to buy some reloading equipment!