Question about all those old top-break .32 revolvers on gunbroker ...

[WVGunman]

I would really like to buy one of these old guns for some very low-velocity plinking. I was thinking about reloading some .32 S&W cases with a grain or two of Trail Boss or Pyrodex and a round ball, something like that. My question is: what make of these guns give the best value for the money? I really don't want to spend more than $170 or so. I rarely see the Smith & Wessons for that. So that leaves the U.S. Revolver Co., Iver Johnson, and Harrington & Richardson, etc. Are any of these better than the others? If I load rounds with a black powder equivalent, does the age of the gun matter? What part(s) on these guns tend to have the most problems? What should I be looking for/expect?

 

[BobWright]

When I was very young I had a lot of experience with those inexpensive top breaks. Most of the ones I handled were .38 S&W caliber, many were made by Marlin and marketed by various hardware suppliers.

All the ones I encountered worked very well, but they had a tendency to jump open, or partially open, with each shot. I fixed this by having the corner service station build up the frame lugs with either weld metal or brazing rod, made no difference to me. Then filed the lugs down to original contour and it was good to go. Maybe make a new pair of grips if required.

Be aware that most of these will allow the cylinder to turn when the hammer is at rest.

Bob Wright

 

[243winxb]

Know the Gunbroker.com sellers policy on returns and allowed inspection times.

 

[ThomasT]

I just sold an H&R model 732 on GB for about $160 with shipping. Not only could you shoot low power loads with it you could also shoot some of the warmer 32 handloads with it. It was a much better gun than any of the old, worn and questionable guns you are talking about. And my price was just the run of the mill pricing. keep your eyes open and you can find them like this all the time. And mine was pleasingly accurate. Always a bonus.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

a grain or two of Trail Boss or Pyrodex and a round ball

Howdy

Trail Boss is not a Black Powder substitute, although many think it is. It is a modern Smokeless powder with a sharp pressure spike. Pyrodex is a true Black Powder substitute, but it requires a soft Black Powder compatible bullet lube, which you will not find on modern commercial bullets. If you don't want to use real Black Powder, which also requires a soft BP compatible bullet lube, I suggest American Pioneer Powder (APP). This can be loaded with regular hard cast bullets.

Do not make the mistake of putting in just a little bit of Black Powder or any substitute and leaving air space in the cartridge. Don't do that, these powders need the case to be filled with powder without any air space.

If you don't want to spend the money on a Smith and Wesson, and yes they are and were the best, I recommend an Iver Johnson.

I picked up this Iver Johnson Safety Hammerless for about $100, but that was quite a while ago.

Note: Iver Johnson completely redesigned their revolvers for Smokeless powder sometime around 1900. This is one of those. Notice the little owl on the grip is facing backwards, if you take the grips off, the hammer spring is a coil spring, and if you look at the cylinder lockup you will see the bolt engages the slots on the cylinder on both edges.






This is an older Iver Johnson from the Black Powder era. Note the little owl is facing forward. If you remove the grips, the hammer spring will be a leaf spring. And notice that the bolt will not engage the cylinder slots on both edges, only one. The hand keeps the cylinder from rotating backwards. I do not recommend buying one of these, no matter how cheap.

 

[jar]

Howdy

Trail Boss is not a Black Powder substitute, although many think it is. It is a modern Smokeless powder with a sharp pressure spike. Pyrodex is a true Black Powder substitute, but it requires a soft Black Powder compatible bullet lube, which you will not find on modern commercial bullets. If you don't want to use real Black Powder, which also requires a soft BP compatible bullet lube, I suggest American Pioneer Powder (APP). This can be loaded with regular hard cast bullets.

Do not make the mistake of putting in just a little bit of Black Powder or any substitute and leaving air space in the cartridge. Don't do that, these powders need the case to be filled with powder without any air space.

If you don't want to spend the money on a Smith and Wesson, and yes they are and were the best, I recommend an Iver Johnson.

I picked up this Iver Johnson Safety Hammerless for about $100, but that was quite a while ago.

Note: Iver Johnson completely redesigned their revolvers for Smokeless powder sometime around 1900. This is one of those. Notice the little owl on the grip is facing backwards, if you take the grips off, the hammer spring is a coil spring, and if you look at the cylinder lockup you will see the bolt engages the slots on the cylinder on both edges.

View attachment 825134




This is an older Iver Johnson from the Black Powder era. Note the little owl is facing forward. If you remove the grips, the hammer spring will be a leaf spring. And notice that the bolt will not engage the cylinder slots on both edges, only one. The hand keeps the cylinder from rotating backwards. I do not recommend buying one of these, no matter how cheap.

View attachment 825135

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Pay attention to the details on the two frames and the cylinder. Remember that grips CAN be changed, a set of later grips on a BP gun will not make it safe to use with modern ammo.

(I know, no one would ever do that, would they?)

 

[WVGunman]

Driftwood Johnson, what about Hopkins & Allen guns? I've heard them described as holding up over time as well as Smith & Wesson.

I just sold an H&R model 732 on GB for about $160 with shipping. Not only could you shoot low power loads with it you could also shoot some of the warmer 32 handloads with it. It was a much better gun than any of the old, worn and questionable guns you are talking about. And my price was just the run of the mill pricing. keep your eyes open and you can find them like this all the time. And mine was pleasingly accurate. Always a bonus.

I've actually bought two of these exact guns. I got rid of the first one because it had a forcing cone problem that wasn't cost-effective to fix. The other one is in transit to me now. I agree, they are nifty guns to play with.
HOWEVER ... I am specifically interested in the top-break action. The reason I'm looking at these low-end .32s is because they are the most obtainable examples, both in cost and examples for sale. Otherwise, I'd be looking for an old British Enfield or Webley in .45 or .38.

 

[mcduck]

I picked up a near new condition H&R Premier on gunbroker for $140. It shoots quite well with black powder .32 S&W.

 

[RevolvingGarbage]

I got a very nice Iver Johnson .32 Safety Hammer from gunbroker for $100 shipped to my ffl. I havent shot it yet, but the bore is beautiful, the action works perfectly, and it even has most of the original finish. A week before that, I scored a Smith and Wesson .32 new departure for $75 shipped. That one is a blackpowder model with a rough looking finish on the barrel, and also needs a firing pin spring, but is otherwise totally functional.

All you can really do is pay close attention to the description and study the pictures they show for clues to rule specific examples out.

Here's the I.J. .32 pictured with one of my S&W top breaks.

 

[ThomasT]

HOWEVER ... I am specifically interested in the top-break action. The reason I'm looking at these low-end .32s is because they are the most obtainable examples, both in cost and examples for sale. Otherwise, I'd be looking for an old British Enfield or Webley in .45 or .38.

If thats what you have your heart set on then go for it. I just thought I would make an alternate suggestion that maybe you hadn't thought of.

 

[MachIVshooter]

The Iver Johnson & H&R guns are really not bad little firearms. No, they're not S&W or H&A, but command much lower prices, often well under $100. As mentioned already, avoid black powder models if you want a shooter, and don't try to force them into roles they weren't intended for by hot rodding the ammo, but you can certainly have fun with them shooting appropriate loads. Some of these guns are very well worn, but oftentimes it's just cosmetic from kicking around drawers, luggage & boxes for the last century+, having actually been shot relatively little.

As an aside, while I have to say do it at your own risk and many will recommend against it, I've run .32 ACP in these little guns with no ill effects. Yes, it's higher pressure than .32 S&W, but still pretty low at 20 KSI, and a smaller rim means the bolt thrust comes out very close, even though the operating pressure is higher, so there's a negligible increase in the stress on frame/latch. Of course, since you handload, there's no good reason to ever do that. Once you have the brass, round balls or cast lead bullets are peanuts, and powder + primer cost would be basically the same.

 

[Monac]

I think shooting guns like these is like taking pictures with the box cameras of the 1920's through the 1950's. They were such simple mechanisms that they can probably be made to work, and the results will be of some interest and satisfaction if you like getting old mechanical objects to work. I can understand that. The practical value will be fairly small (even less than box camera photos - because of their big film format, those things seemed to capture a lot of detail) but the learning experience could be both valuable and pleasant. Good look!

 

[Gaucho Gringo]

I have 4 top break revolvers. A blued Iver Johnson .32S&W that has bolt stop notches in the cylinder and a nickle plated H & R in .38S&W that also has bolt stop notches in the cylinder. These are safe to shoot with smokeless loads. Also have another Iver Johnson .32S&W and a H & A .32 S&W that don't have bolt stops. These are not safe with smokeless loads, black powder loads only. The .32S&W black powder loads are about of the easiest of all cartridges to load and one of the cheapest. Just be sure there is no air space between the power and the bullet. They are not particularly accurate guns but they weren't intended to be used at more than 15-20 feet. They were low cost personal defense weapons. Millions were made and a lot of them were never even fired, just kept in a nightstand or desk drawer just in case.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Driftwood Johnson, what about Hopkins & Allen guns? I've heard them described as holding up over time as well as Smith & Wesson.

Howdy

The only experience I have with Hopkins & Allen revolvers is three Merwin Hulberts that I have. Merwin Hulberts were actually manufactured by Hopkins & Allen.






I can tell you that despite the myths about how the MH was the finest and best designed revolver in the 19th Century, the workmanship, particularly of the interior parts, was not as good as what you would find inside a S&W Top Break. Here is a look inside a MH Russian model.






Here is a look inside a S&W New Model Number Three. This gun was refinished in 1965, so ignore how pretty the case hardening is. Notice that the machining of the parts is a level more precise than the MH (Hopkins & Allen) parts.