Question about Lung shots

[herbloob]

I'm new here and this seems like a dumb question but I was wondering if a shot to the lung would cause a HP to properly expand considering the lung is a very spongy structure and you wouldn't think it would offer enough resistant to cause proper expansion. My theory is that because the lungs have so many vessels that the water and blood in the lungs will cause enough of a hydro static effect to expand the bullet. Will a high velocity round also expand in the lungs? Will it also expand from a heart shot?

Thanks for any answers

 

[Charlie Horse]

Had to call in an expert on this one...

I've never seen a wound where that would definitely be the case, since the bullet penetrated muscle\bone first. I called in an expert, my mother who was an ER nurse back the day when you went to work and waited for the shooting victims to come in on Sat. night. The same conversation every time, and went like this:

Nurse: Who shot you?
Patient:A friend.
Nurse: What were you doing?
Patient:Sitting on the commode reading the Bible

She said that lung tissue alone will most likely not expand a service, or lower, caliber projectile, in her experience

 

[Deus Machina]

It won't expand it alone, but it also tends to be full of blood and be close to immediately-important bones, nerves, and organs.
All in all, lungs are one of the things where having a hole is bad no matter the size of it.

 

[Ranger Roberts]

I agree with the other posters. A lung alone probably wouldn't be enough to do it but everything that the bullet hits on the way to the lung (bone, other organs) or after hitting the lung will do it.

Dues Machina said it best:

All in all, lungs are one of the things where having a hole is bad no matter the size of it.

 

[pendennis]

My son is a paramedic and one of their axioms is - "Air goes in and out; fluids go 'round and around; any mixing of the two is not a good thing."

Collapsed lungs, nicking or cutting arteries or veins, foreign tissue in the lungs, etc. No good ever comes of this.

A sucking chest wound is God's method of telling you to slow down.

 

[vamo]

I don't speak from any sort of special knowledge or experience, but its gotta go through flesh and bone to get to the lungs, so I would think it would function the properly.

But that's a little beside the point, hit someone in a lung and you're probably going to come out ahead in the altercation.

 

[j1]

I have never shot a deer through the lungs with my 06 which went far.

 

[herrwalther]

The round has to pass through other materials before reaching the lungs. Clothing, skin, bone, and the small amount of muscle will start to open up a hollow point. I don't imagine a HP would open up much more (if any) while passing through the lungs themselves. The larger blood vessels leading into the lungs might however.

The heart is a rather dense and strong muscle. Aside from crappy ammo, a quality hollow point will expand while passing through the heart. A hit in either place is far from a tickle as they are both in the thoracic cavity.

 

[Gun Geezer]

I don't have an answer as I have never recovered a bullet that hit the heart or lung to be able see how it changed. Bullet has always gone out the other side. Plus, I don't use HP ammo and don't hunt with pistols (I'm a terrible shot with pistols).

Why? Because every heart/lung shot I have ever made has been fatal using cheaper non-HP ammo. Even FMJ. Lethal in the heart/lung. Every time.

 

[bhk]

I have shot several deer through the lungs with .44 magnum soft points from a four-inch barrel. I have not recovered any bullets (pass throughs). If the sized of the (huge) exit holes is any indication, there was plenty of expansion.

 

[gym]

Obviously the lung isn't sitting out there by itself. It is surrounded by the ribs and skin and flesh , so when it reaches the lung, it is already expanded or partially expanded. This should be self evident.

 

[Onmilo]

Depends on exactly what kind of hollowpoint you are asking about and what material the bullet passes through getting into the lung tissue.

A pistol caliber conventional hollowpoint that has passed through a leather jacket, shirt, t-shirt, flesh and a rib will already be expanded by the time it gets to the lung.

A frangible hollowpoint fired into a bare chest with likely be in pieces as it enters the lung be it rifle or pistol.

The old .30/30 150 grain hollowpoint will again already be expanded from passing through the hide, flesh and a rib or two on a deer....

 

[jmr40]

As a hunter. A hole in the lungs or heart is a dead animal. Doesn't matter if it is an arrow, expanded bullet, or FMJ. The question is how long will they live, and how far will they travel after being hit. Animals with both lungs destroyed have been known to run for 100-200 yards. Same with their heart gone.

I've made several lung/heart shots on deer and bear. The exit holes have always indicated good expansion, but the animals have never dropped at the shot unless the bullet also hit something else. The more expansion, the faster they dropped

To answer your question you must also consider bullet construction. All bullets are not constructed the same, even within the same caliber and weight. I can buy 150 gr .30 caliber bullets and shoot them as slow as 2000 fps from a 30-30, and over 3500 fps from a 300 magnum. Different construction methods will have a huge effect on expansion. The same bullet designed to be fired at 3500 fps might not expand @ 2000 fps. The bullet designed to be fired @ 2000 fps might break up if it hits @ 3500 fps and not penetrate more than a couple of inches.

 

[RustyShackelford]

Wound Ballistics Research Lab; COL Martin Fackler....

Id research some of the well known(open source) data & studies about wound ballistics/human gun shot injuries.
COL(Dr) Martin Fackler, US Army wrote a lot about the topic. The US military also had the Thompson-LaGarde study which led to the T&E of the .45acp sidearm(M1911/M1911a1).
See www.deltapress.com www.gunvideo.com www.paladin-press.com .
Serious wounds to the human lung(s) could do a lot of damage but I highly doubt that alone(one JHP or pre-fragmented handgun round) would "drop" a aggressive attacker.
You have two lungs. As noted, a "sucking chest wound" may cause shock or heavy blood loss but I would not expect a violent attacker to stop immediately.
Id suggest you aim: center mass, fire a "double tap"(sometimes called hammers by training cadre), then if the threat still exists, fire two rounds into the head or lower torso. If the first rounds do not stop a person then you can assume they may have body armor or you need to aim at the head/lower torso.

RS

 

[AfghanVetOrcutt]

Holes in lungs = bad for them, good for you if he/she is attacking you. Hole in head is best, bro.

 

[2zulu1]

Depends on bullet construction/design, .357mag/125gr SJHP Remington = yes.

 

[Shifty]

Too many variables. What caliber at what speed from what range? Bullet construction? Muscle mass? Clothing? Angle?

Hollow points expand when meeting resistance. The more resistance, the quicker they open up in general.

But I think the general consensus is that with a pistol, it is better to shoot a human in the chest with reliable expanding hollow points in the chest and lungs, than to use any other type of bullet.