Question for those who've experienced chainfires

[.38 Special]

It appears to me that the great majority of chainfires take place during the first shot. Am I correct in this thinking?

 

[hawg]

Mine always did.

 

[woodnbow]

I’ve had two, same gun, same day. First shot both times and the rest of the chambers fired normally.

 

[Gator Weiss]

Chain fires come from the back of the cylinder or from tiny corroded pores or holes between cylinders. Greasing is a useless mess. The Army did not grease. Corn meal filler under the ball should be used for tightening the load. Repeated chain fires on the same chambers usually means you have a problem in the cylinder wall. Loose caps create hazardous conditions for chain fire.

 

[hawg]

Chain fires come from the back of the cylinder or from tiny corroded pores or holes between cylinders. Greasing is a useless mess. The Army did not grease. Corn meal filler under the ball should be used for tightening the load. Repeated chain fires on the same chambers usually means you have a problem in the cylinder wall. Loose caps create hazardous conditions for chain fire.

You will never make me believe chains can come from the rear of the cylinder. I've fired too many fully loaded cylinders sans caps and never had one.

 

[noelf2]

Chain fires come from the back of the cylinder or from tiny corroded pores or holes between cylinders. Greasing is a useless mess. The Army did not grease. Corn meal filler under the ball should be used for tightening the load. Repeated chain fires on the same chambers usually means you have a problem in the cylinder wall. Loose caps create hazardous conditions for chain fire.

Have you experienced a chain fire? There's so much there that is in direct conflict with my experience. I've had two that I remember. Both happened with tight caps on the nipples (I never had to pinch caps). Both happened with full loads of black powder and no wads, fillers, or lube over the ball. At that time I was using .451 balls, and the advice from people saying that lubes are useless and the chain fires come from the nipple side. Made sense to me at the time. Not any more. For years now, I have been using a lubed felt wad under a .454 or .457 ball. Never had another chain fire. Never had one with a .36 or .31 caliber. I'm convinced that shaving off a good amount of lead during loading with an oversized ball keeps most fire from skirting past it. The wad is just extra insurance, at the expense of a bit of accuracy in my case. I have never heard of the corrosion holes or pores between cylinders (I think you meant cylinder "chambers") idea. I find that highly unlikely.

OP: Both happened on the first shot, different guns.

 

[JimCunn]

Two, same gun, different cylinders, first round.
Fired all six, blew the barrel off the gun both times.

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

You will never make me believe chains can come from the rear of the cylinder. I've fired too many fully loaded cylinders sans caps and never had one.

I don't think this is what you mean, but I've heard of chain fires occurring that were believed to be from the back of the cylinder caused by the caps coming into contact with the recoil shield.

That seem plausible to me.

 

[hawg]

Two, same gun, different cylinders, first round.
Fired all six, blew the barrel off the gun both times.

Now that I do not believe. The only way that happened is if you used a Colt with no wedge installed.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Remember that video posted elsewhere that has a Walker chainfire? That one occurred on the second or third shot if I remember. My old CVA used to chainfire, that was from poorly fitted nipples that were undersized from the factory. I drilled and tapped the cylinder to take T/C hotshot nipples and it' never did it again. On the other hand my much newer Pietta 1860 Navy chainfired on account of spilled powder on the front of the cylinder, the powder was stuck in the lightly applied lube over the balls. So, personal experience of chainfires from both ends of the cylinder.

 

[JimCunn]

" Now that I do not believe".

This is a free Country; you're not required to believe it.
It is a Belgian made Centennial Centaure that I bought about 1965, give or take a year. A somewhat inexact replica of a Colt 1860 Army .44. I still have it.
When it blew (about 1968), both times it sheared the wedge in two and the loading lever knocked the barrel lug out of its dovetail. The base of those lugs was larger than original Colts and larger than any that are available today. So if I ever restore this gun, I will need to hand make that lug. Modern wedges are not a really good fit either. All I've found are a bit too wide and from memory, not tall enough, though with some filing, they do work after a fashion.

Both times, when it went, it blew the barrel, loading lever, and cylinder out about 30 feet in front of the gun. No injuries either time. I got no clue where the pieces of the wedge and lug went. It's still a pretty gun, but I don't plan to ever shoot it again.

Hawg, where in Mississippi are you located?
I'm in Collierville, TN just east of Memphis and Germantown.

 

[hawg]

" Now that I do not believe".

This is a free Country; you're not required to believe it.
It is a Belgian made Centennial Centaure that I bought about 1965, give or take a year. A somewhat inexact replica of a Colt 1860 Army .44. I still have it.
When it blew (about 1968), both times it sheared the wedge in two and the loading lever knocked the barrel lug out of its dovetail. The base of those lugs was larger than original Colts and larger than any that are available today. So if I ever restore this gun, I will need to hand make that lug. Modern wedges are not a really good fit either. All I've found are a bit too wide and from memory, not tall enough, though with some filing, they do work after a fashion.

Both times, when it went, it blew the barrel, loading lever, and cylinder out about 30 feet in front of the gun. No injuries either time. I got no clue where the pieces of the wedge and lug went. It's still a pretty gun, but I don't plan to ever shoot it again.

Hawg, where in Mississippi are you located?
I'm in Collierville, TN just east of Memphis and Germantown.

The only ball that has any force behind it is the one that goes down the bore. The rest only have power enough to go a few yards and drop. I have heard of damage being done to Colt's with full loads of T7 but nothing like that. The ones I had were with a Remington and I had a lot of them. It never even sheared a loading lever pin. I'm about 60 miles north of Meridian.

 

[woodnbow]

Chain fires come from the back of the cylinder or from tiny corroded pores or holes between cylinders. Greasing is a useless mess. The Army did not grease. Corn meal filler under the ball should be used for tightening the load. Repeated chain fires on the same chambers usually means you have a problem in the cylinder wall. Loose caps create hazardous conditions for chain fire.

Not in this case. .457 ball in .456” chambers… (Pietta Shooters Model) Pietta specified .465” ball but all I had was .457. Lesson learned, I procured the proper ball and later a mold and have had no trouble since. There was no corrosion present, the revolver was in excellent condition.

 

[JimCunn]

"The only ball that has any force behind it is the one that goes down the bore.".

Gun worked fine for 2 or 3 years, then blew all six.
Replacement cylinder blew all six on first firing.
I wasn't the one shooting the second time, but did get to watch the RUD and the parts headed for elsewhere.
I was the one shooting the first time. It was entertaining.
Bottom chamber is obstructed by the loading lever; it builds up a lot of pressure and substantial force.
I've been shooting black powder revolvers for almost 60 years.
Only two times I ever had anything like this happen.

 

[hawg]

I've tried several times to induce a chain fire on my old chain fire Remington from the rear and couldn't do it, not even once. All of them came from the front.

 

[Navy Six 2]

My one and only chain fire came from the third shot from a Uberti Pocket Navy. I loaded some home cast round ball that had wrinkles and should have been re-melted. So., Mea Culpa and I believe that happened at the front of the cylinder.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

The only time I had a chainfire it came from the rear. It was on my Euroarms Remington Army.

After that happened I deliberately induced a chainfire by loading one chamber fully and the one next to it with a blank (powder and greased wad only) in an uncapped chamber. I fired the ball and the blank also went off.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Only had one, many years ago.

Yes, first shot.

I have said for many years that an incomplete seal around the ball, for instance from a poorly formed or gouged ball, could leave a void which would form a perfect path for an errant spark to find its way past the ball and down to the powder charge.

Pores or holes between the chambers? Hardly. My chain fire was with a relatively new Uberti 44 caliber 'Navy'*

There were no pores or holes between the chambers.

By the way, the holes in the engine block in your car are called cylinders.

The holes in a cylinder are called chambers or charge holes, not cylinders.

*Yes, I know the Navy was never a 44 caliber revolver, but I did not know that when I bought it in 1968. Been around the block a little bit since then.

 

[Dark Skies]

" Now that I do not believe".

This is a free Country; you're not required to believe it.
It is a Belgian made Centennial Centaure that I bought about 1965, give or take a year. A somewhat inexact replica of a Colt 1860 Army .44. I still have it.
When it blew (about 1968), both times it sheared the wedge in two and the loading lever knocked the barrel lug out of its dovetail. The base of those lugs was larger than original Colts and larger than any that are available today. So if I ever restore this gun, I will need to hand make that lug. Modern wedges are not a really good fit either. All I've found are a bit too wide and from memory, not tall enough, though with some filing, they do work after a fashion.

Both times, when it went, it blew the barrel, loading lever, and cylinder out about 30 feet in front of the gun. No injuries either time. I got no clue where the pieces of the wedge and lug went. It's still a pretty gun, but I don't plan to ever shoot it again.

Hawg, where in Mississippi are you located?
I'm in Collierville, TN just east of Memphis and Germantown.

What happened to the end of the arbor? The sheer force required to destroy the wedge made of a low / medium carbon steel are many thousands of psi, like, well, at least 50k upwards. Did the end of the arbor get ripped out too?

 

[hawg]

The only time I had a chainfire it came from the rear. It was on my Euroarms Remington Army.

After that happened I deliberately induced a chainfire by loading one chamber fully and the one next to it with a blank (powder and greased wad only) in an uncapped chamber. I fired the ball and the blank also went off.

I've loaded all six with live loads and left the caps off several times and never got a chain.

 

[noelf2]

I have one of those Pietta pepperbox revolvers. I think I'll load it up and try to get a chainfire from the nipple side.

 

[JimCunn]

"Did the end of the arbor get ripped out too?"

No. There is some slight scarring at the front of the hole in the arbor, but nothing serious. Edges of that hole are sharp. I never found either wedge. Either the arbor sheared through both sides of the wedge, or the wedge was driven out the side without shearing. I doubt the latter because I don't see where the lateral force would have come from.

Easiest way to repair the gun is to take a modern lug, micro weld a transverse bead front and rear to extend it fore and aft, file it to fit the dovetail in the barrel, and reblue it. It'd be a bit too small, but not really noticeable. When new, it was an inexact copy of the real thing anyway. Timing is good, but I don't think I will ever trust the gun again. I really enjoyed it the first couple of years, and it was cheap at the time, so I don't have any complaints.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

During several conversations with 45 Dragoon wedges being "squirted" out of the pistol did come up so it's not unheard of. I think that is what happened with this particular pistol. Since the wedge wasn't found I would think it was launched into the next zip code. I wasn't there so I can't be certain that's what occurred. Given the description of the aftermath with no real? damage to the arbor its a good guess. Just outta curiosity was the wedge being tapped in or just seated with finger pressure?

 

[JimCunn]

Tapped in.
With both wedges. This happened twice.
Both wedges had the spring latch.
The one on the present (third) wedge latch doesn't fit.

Thanks for your input. Much appreciated.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Thanks for your answer, Mike had mentioned on several occasions wedges being shot off into the blue. He has a rather clever solution to the issue that I don't quite catch onto of reversing the keeper spring so the wedge can't come flying out. When you mentioned the damaged barrel lug, what part are you talking about? Is it the latch that's for the loading lever?