Question of the day- Fingerprints on fired cases?

[.455_Hunter]

Do fingerprints from handling/loading cartridges actually survive the firing process? Seems like that if you leave a big old thumb print on something like a .45 case while loading a 1911 mag, the expansion of the case wall onto the chamber wall would obliterate any sense of the original print, let alone the fine detail used for ID. Just curious...

 

[Derek Zeanah]

This showed up in similar threads:

Fingerprints can be recovered from spent cases

...Even after the actual prints have worn or been cleaned off Scientists have developed a technique for retrieving fingerprints from bullet casings and bomb fragments after they have been fired or detonated. The new method, which relies on subtle corrosion of metal surfaces is already being...

www.thehighroad.org

 

[jmr40]

There have been people convicted based on fingerprints on brass cases. But based on what my friends in LE tell me it isn't like on TV. Finding a fingerprint with enough quality to make a positive ID doesn't always happen.

 

[hoardingthemanual]

in the batman movies, batman was able to lift a print off a bullet that fragmented after being shot into a wall. he is able to digitally reconstruct the bullet, and run an analysis on it for fingerprints

 

[Mk-211]

The oil on your skin, left on the case, will be burned/stamped something like that into the brass.

Forgot what the effect is called, I'm sure someone will know it.

 

[Lo-Profile]

Yes, they will.
I load my carry gun with gloves on

 

[CapnMac]

Well, a "fingerprint" is from the oils in your skin that transfer to touched items.
Which will be affected by the presence of anything that is a solvent to oil, or that might "muddy" the oil imprint, like residual lubricity on the case.
In firing the case gets ery hot, but, probably not hot enough to "flash off" skin oils.

There's the practical aspect of just how much of the finger actually touches the case on loading, as the primary dozen or so "critical match points" on a fingerprint was found in the middle of the contact pad of the finger. So, if you are using just the tips, or even fingernails to pluck at the rims, that may not actually leans a "comparable" sort of a print.

Your mileage may vary.

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

Year's ago a friend if mine would load what he called 'sterile' rounds.
He would load them in a dry tumbler, then never touch them again unless wearing latex gloves.

The entire loading process was with gloves, then he would vacuum seal them, to include a similarly treated magazine in which to load them, should that be required.

He probably still has them stashed somewhere.

 

[JeffG]

There is a wealth of forensic evidence that can be gathered from ammunition, both fired and not. To include touch DNA.

 

[Miami_JBT]

Yes, the evidence techs have pulled finger prints off spent brass. I don't delve into the dark arts and sorcery that the evidence techs practice. I never enter their dungeons, devoid of natural light. I leave them to their machinations and simply worked with the end results of their sacrifices to the gods.

 

[Beck]

Yes indeed. Spent brass casings are a detective's dream come true.

 

[.38 Special]

This is an oddly specific question, @.455_Hunter.

 

[Hartkopf]

Is that why bangers carry 5 shot revolvers? Except for the ones that carry 33 round Glocks! . I’ll bet cases in gang involved shootings don’t get scrutinized like a high profile shooting.

 

[shafter]

Fingerprints can survive quite alot. You have to have a good print to start with to be useful but once it's there it isn't as fragile as one might think.

 

[lysanderxiii]

It has been accepted in court . . .

 

[Rule3]

Do fingerprints from handling/loading cartridges actually survive the firing process? Seems like that if you leave a big old thumb print on something like a .45 case while loading a 1911 mag, the expansion of the case wall onto the chamber wall would obliterate any sense of the original print, let alone the fine detail used for ID. Just curious...

Watch Forensic Files. It is amazing what they can do these days!
No matter what type of crime you may even think about commiting, never go to a WalMart. They always catch people that go to WalMart.

 

[gwpercle]

Now that you mention it ... I never see the good guys "dusting" all the fired cases lying around on the ground after a crime / shooting ... If there were viable finger prints on them ... seems like they could solve Every shooting !
Gary

 

[dh1633pm]

I only worry about prints before committing a crime. Since the last time I committed a crime was never, not high on my list. I bet there are those here in law enforcement that might be able to add value.

 

[Miami_JBT]

Is that why bangers carry 5 shot revolvers? Except for the ones that carry 33 round Glocks! . I’ll bet cases in gang involved shootings don’t get scrutinized like a high profile shooting.

Most criminals have mismatched ammo and never carry a full magazine.

 

[5whiskey]

-It can be done, prints can survive the firing cycle on a Case
-I think it's less common that prints with sufficient ridge detail are deposited on brass shell casings than, say, a piece of glass. Far less common.
-Once deposited, fingerprints are not "fragile," but it's very easy to touch objects in ways that your fingerprints are smeared and unuseable
-I don't plan on shooting anyone unless I sincerely believe my life is in danger, and it will be a response to that.
-If I do have to shoot anyone in SD and word got out that I had gone to the trouble of having a "sterile" mag, my SD claim may be scrutinized much more closely.
-I use to lean into digital and forensic technology ALOT. Solved a lot of crimes that way. I've still solved way more crimes by simply talking to people.

 

[Jeff62]

The oil on your skin, left on the case, will be burned/stamped something like that into the brass.

Forgot what the effect is called, I'm sure someone will know it.

Etching

 

[Mk-211]

Etching

I was thinking more of the Monroe effect...

 

[HB]

Is that why bangers carry 5 shot revolvers? Except for the ones that carry 33 round Glocks! . I’ll bet cases in gang involved shootings don’t get scrutinized like a high profile shooting.

The only shooting I witnessed involved 2 guys, 2 guns, and a car crash. Shooting started inside the car. The wounded guy got out on foot and shot as he ran away.

Once the cops left, there were still cases all over the road. They didn’t clean up the cases, let alone the blood…

 

[JeffG]

I only worry about prints before committing a crime. Since the last time I committed a crime was never, not high on my list. I bet there are those here in law enforcement that might be able to add value.

100%. It's usually not where you have been, but what you did while you were there.

 

[Miami_JBT]

Now that you mention it ... I never see the good guys "dusting" all the fired cases lying around on the ground after a crime / shooting ... If there were viable finger prints on them ... seems like they could solve Every shooting !
Gary

Uniform guys just mark their locations and let the evidence techs and crime scene guys work their magic. A lot of the recovery of finger prints isn't by dusting but by super-glue fuming.