Question on Rifle Reloading

[Brasso]

I have been reloading pistol cartridges for years, and have reloaded for a .444 as well, but never for a bottleneck rifle cartridge. I have an 8mm that I plan to start loading for but I need some guidance. What types of dies do most of you use for rifle cases? Full size case resizer or neck sizer only? Also there is the issue of the RCBS X-Die that is supposed to keep the case from needing to be trimmed? Do you crimp or not, and if so do you recomend the taper crimp or a Lee Factory Crimp die?

I know it's a lot of questions and that they are rather subjective, but please tell me what you do and why. The rifle is a Rem 700.


Thanks.

 

[Delmar]

I normally neck size because the ammo is going through the same weapon the cases came out of, and they are bolt actions. My 30-30 Winchester gets full length resized ammo. RCBS, Hornady, Redding and Lee make pretty good dies in my own personal experience.

Haven't tried the X die, but it does sound interesting.

 

[swifter]

You'll probably want both neck and FL sizers. Neck sizing generally works best, but you'll need to FL about every 5 loadings. And some rifles like FL, just to assert their individuality... Feed the beast what it likes best.
I do not crimp for my bolt guns. As far as the X-die goes, I haven't used one.

Tom

 

[Brasso]

Thanks. Looks like I'll just end up with both types. Crimping doesn't seem to be an issue with bolt guns. If you only neck size will the case be a little tighter going into the chamber. Comparatively?

 

[schromf]

three kinds of cats

When your loading rifle ammo I break into three different types of cartridges. The first you have already been exposed to just long pistol cartridges really and all the stuff you do currently applies with an occasional twist that is caliber specific.

The second is bottlenecked cases, this gets a lot broader in scope and there are a lot of little quirks in certain cartridges. Typically I full length resize once when new, and only neck size thereafter. Some calibers ( usually fireform or guns with wierd chambers ) really get picky on having the shoulders set back on a full length resize.

The third group can encompass either of the above groups, but is benchrest, match, or super accurate ammo. All of the above rules apply with a whole lot more precision and steps. Each round is individually weighed, there are concentric measurements, and trimming that need to be addressed. This type of ammo is a small portion of reloading but it is also for me the most interesting. Basically once you get into this you can pretty much tackle any caliber, cause it is kind of the doctorate degree of reloading, cause you use all the tricks.

Don't get worried about the last group, nobody starts there, and it isn't neccessary to make good ammo. Group three guys are perfectionists, constantly stiving for the ammo that will let them shoot the absolute smallest possible groups. The ammo here is sub .5" groups at 100yds, and they aren't going to get excited with anything less than .25"-.3"groups.

For a good beginning don't start with a fussy caliber. 30-06 and .308 families of brass ( 25-06, 270, 280, etc) are good beginnings. A half grain of powder in these cases isn't going to make much difference, and even when your wrong will only open up your groups an inch or two. Your 30-30 is another good learning cartridge ( watch your trim length ). I wouldn't jump right into magnums at first some of these can be tempermental. I have spent a lot of time getting 300 Win Mags worked out, to shoot tight groups, then run out of powder and buy a new case lot, load on old data and get terrible groups. Then back to tweaking again, and more range time, maybe it is just me but I have had a lot of grief working out loads for friends 300 Win Mags. I my opinion not a good starting cartridge, just too fussy and needs experience to tune right. Another bad starting point is a very old cartridge with thin brass, or rare brass. These old cartridges need some special care and if brass availability is limited or difficult this can get expensive to learn on.

Some of my favorite dies are Redding, especially with the precision bullet seat die. These are not neccessary for all cartridges though. I have an old set of RCBS 30-30 dies and they will do everything I need to do with that caliber. I have some Hornady Dies but I have those as duplicates on dies I already have. I bought them so I could use the sizing die, I have them set for full length resize, and use my RCBS and Redding dies as neck sizing dies ( I don't like readjusting dies ). The aren't bad dies but I like the RCBS and Redding better.

 

[30Cal]

I like most dies, but have had problems w/ Lee in the past and I now stay away from them (expander ball on the sizing die was too big and the bullets were loose in the case mouth--luckily, they package a fix for the out of spec condition--a crimp die).

If the rounds are going into just one rifle, I'd get a neck sizing die.

You will need to trim cases. You will also need to trim before you use the XDie. I used one of these for a bit in .308 and it performed as claimed. Brass grew much slower than usual and pretty much stopped after 2nd or 3rd time through. What I didnt' like about it was that I felt that I was getting inconsistant neck tension when seating bullets. I shoot .308 in matches, so I dropped the XDie.

Some loads work better w/ crimp, some don't. I've used the same bullet with two powders. One shot poorly unless crimped, and the other shot well unless crimped. I do not crimp match ammo as the jackets are thin and easy to distort.

 

[ocabj]

You should have both a neck only and a full length sizing when reloading for a bolt action. The reason why you will eventually need to use the full length sizer is because the shoulder of the brass will be pushed forward making brass difficult to chamber and close the bolt on.

It takes a little experimenting, but you can use a full length sizer without sizing the brass completely and instead just push the shoulder back enough so chambering the brass is easy. If you have a case that is difficult to chamber (due to multiple neck only sizings), put it into the press and bring the ram up. Then screw down the full length sizer until the die hits the shoulder. Then bring the ram down and screw the die a quarter or half turn, and then resize the case. Try to chamber the brass. If the bolt closes easily, then you know the shoulder is set back enough. If the bolt doesn't, screw the die down another quarter or half turn more and resize, and check again.

This can extend the brass life a little more since you are not going to be sizing the body of the brass so much.

The key to trimming is to trim all brass to the same length. Obviously, you want case length to be between the appropriate specs and headspacing of your rifle. But you should strive to keep brass the same length to obtain consistency.

 

[Brasso]

Thanks again. That is the kind of info I was wondering about.

Another general question about reloading. I have been using an RCBS powder scale and just always assumed it was accurate enough for the revolver cartridges I loaded, but is it accurate enough for good rifle ammo or should I go to an electronic scale?

Rob

 

[Edward429451]

Personally I don't believe that electronic scales are any more accurate than regular scales. Adding digits, or an extra digit, makes it more accurate how? I trust my old regular scales more than anything else I've seen. I check the zero with bullets of known exact weight, and occassionally get a buddy to bring his scale by to test them against each other.

Until someone can prove the electronic scales are truly more accurate, I'll keep on with the normal scales. YMMV.

 

[ocabj]

Stick with your beam scale. Just get check weights and you'll be fine.

I still use my RCBS 5-0-5.

As far as accuracy, the electronic scales I've seen still have .1gr accuracy. I don't know of any scales (sold for reloading use) that have .01gr accuracy. That would be really nice, though.

 

[kimbernut]

SCALES?

A scale is a scale is a scale. As long you use check weights to verify accuracy it matters not which you use. For rifle I use the Pact electronic tied to the Pact powder dispenser because it is faster but I verify about every 10th charge weight with my 505 beam scale just as a backup.

 

[schromf]

Your RCBS powder scale if its in good shape is just fine. You will have other places you need to put money into, like dies, shellholders, and maybe a case trimmer which are neccessary. Save the $

What is a good thing to do to speed up your loads is throw your loads on a powder measure slightly under the load you are using, then use a powder trickler to get the load right on the money. It is a lot faster.

 

[Jwar88]

Current production Hornady standard rifle dies are the best in their price range right now and produce near match grade results. They are actually more uniform while being less expensive than the other brands... but then I use all the brands and there is absolutely nothing wrong with any of them. Nothing wrong with Lee dies either. RCBS is...and has always been great. Redding is ultimately the best, but more expensive, generally ...but I am using all Hornady right now for all my rifles, and for $20 a set ...why pay more for no obvious benefit. Hornady is really trying hard to produce quality products for us. CH dies are real good too and a great company to deal with for more obscure calibers.

X-Dies? We don't need no stinkin' X-dies!!

Why be afraid of case trimming??? What is wrong with case trimming? I trim all my NEW cases to a uniform length...(just a tad) for uniformity... both in length, and to square the case mouth. The money you save on the Hornady dies you can put toward a trimmer and a dial caliper. You need these tools for rifle. You need a trimmer, look at the Redding. I really like their tools...there is refinement and quality there that you can feel.

If you are reloading for a mauser, or for any production bolt action really, don't bother with neck sizing...but DO... I repeat... DO learn from someone ...maybe there is an article here... about headspace and how to adjust your dies to fit your fired cases to your rifle chamber. Don't just automatically set the die to tap the shell holder like the manual sez.

Good Luck.

 

[Delmar]

From what I understand, when properly using the X-dies, you are supposed to fire a load thru the the case, and trim it. After that, according to RCBS, you can use the x-die to resize the case without the worry of trimming. One of the reasons I neck size is so I do not have to trim as often, and toss the case after 3 trimmings anyway.

If you are looking for reloading accuracy, it really doesn't seem like one thing you do is going to get you where you want to be, but a combination of things. I'm known for being rather anal about my handloads, and I do not load for absolute max power.
If I want more power, I move up in caliber-its safer and the result is more consistent.

Having said that-reloading can become another hobby in and of itself, and the idea of working with tenths of a grain and .001ths of an inch is something I particularly enjoy.

As to your 8MM, you will find out what it likes through experience-taper crimp, powders, primers, case sizing-full or neck.
It's all part of a fun, exacting, and sometimes :banghead: experience!