Questions about. 357 mag reloading data

[brewer12345]

I has been very accurate for me. But with my aging eyes, if I don't have some kind of optics, I'm point shooting. Most of my guns have some kind of optics, red dot or scope. WST has been used by BE shooters for decades. So it's very very good at reduced loads.

Ah, the eyesight issue. I think that it is still fun to try hard with unscoped rifles even though my vision is, umm, challenged (I am not even a candidate for laser surgery because they can't correct Mr. Magoo). What I have found is that a really loooonnnggg sight radius helps a lot. So despite visual challenges, I find it stimulating to shoot a lever 357 with a 24" barrel, a tang sight, and a fiber optic front post. It will be a sad day when I throw in the towel on it and trade it for a 357 I can scope. And look on the bright side: after shooting the unscoped rifle at the 50 yard target, a scoped rifle makes the 100 yard line seem like a cake walk...

 

[Mixed Nuts]

Wow, lots of useful info. You guys have been doing this stuff awhile and it shows.

Today I located 2 pounds of 2400, I didn't reload any cases last night so 2400 will be a significant part of my next range session.

I have checked the local range rules and there's no rule against lead bullets. At least not yet. Perhaps they'll make one before I finish my 500 cast performance 158s.

Dudedog, didn't even know about the wet tumbler method. Just watched a video of a guy using a harbor freight tumbler. Might be a budget method for trying that system out. Saw another guy separating the media with two plastic bowls - one perforated - and a garden hose. Wow.

Rule3, these coated bullets with high hardness numbers must be cast, yes? I noticed that plated x-treams were swaged. I guess it's a matter of shopping around for hardcast coated bullets. They must be more common than hard plated bullets. I dunno why, but a swaged and plated bullet with no cannalure is unappealing. Like I'd ruin the plating with a magnum class roll crimp. Also, appreciate the info on your shooting of 158s.

243winxb, interesting data. As of today I have 2400. And I will be working it in to my next shooting session. Haven't figured out hpw to to post pictures to the site so no issue choosing what targets to leave out.

Brewer12345, is interesting to hear that a longer sight radius helps aging eyes. One wonders if this might explain all those long buffalo guns from yester-year.

 

[Dudedog]

Aren't you supposed to get the holes in the black section of the targets

No you are supposed to miss the black part and then see how close you can get the shots together without having them touch.
If you have been shooting bad and have four touching you can make up for it by shooting the 5th one and having it not touch

 

[Dudedog]

Lyman Cyclone
Midsouth
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply....ne-stainless-steel-rotary-case-tumbler-(115v) on sale $150 (+shipping)
Has pins and media seperator.

Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B01A3PNX1E/ref=dp_olp_all_mbc?ie=UTF8&condition=all
(free shipping)

F.A.R.T (frankford Arsenal)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00HTN4R6O/ref=dp_olp_new_mbc?ie=UTF8&condition=new $190ish
(free shipping)

Magnet
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias=sporting&field-keywords=Frankford+magnet ~$15

One thing to consider with the Harbor Freight you will still need to buy pins which are about $20 for 2.5 lbs on Amazon, maybe better deals elsewhere haven't shopped for pins.
https://www.amazon.com/Stainless-St...8&sr=8-5&keywords=stainless+pins+for+tumbling


I didn't want to spend that much but finally broke down and did and am glad I did.


For a long time I just washed case in a bucket of soapy water. Put them in and let them soak for a few days, swished them around every now and then.
Not the shiniest or the cleanest but worked and cheap.


Wow lots of powders now!
AA#9, IMR4227, 2400, W296
Can't wait to see your results, hope you find one that works well for you!

 

[brutus51]

Just an observation, on my last outing I Ioaded an Extreme 158gr. plated SWC with 13.gr of 2400 on top of a CCI 550 magnum primer.
Out of an 8" barreled Dan Wesson I experienced a 210fps. spread. 1044 lowest to1253 highest. First time I ever used Magnum primers with this load. Always got much better extreme spreads and accuracy with standard primers.

 

[243winxb]

Always got much better extreme spreads and accuracy with standard primers.

This has been reported before in other threads.

 

[Mixed Nuts]

Will be charging some cases today. The comment by brutus51got me looking around and there seems to be a lot of shooters claiming that 2400 works best with standard primers. My reloading data seems mixed on the subject. Some 2400 loads specify magnim primers, some do not.

Anyway, thanks brutus51, I will do my first tests with 2400 using standard primers. I'll do my retest of AA #9 with magnum primers and my first w296 tests that way as well.

Dudedog, thanks for the links to cleaning equipment. The magnet you linked to looks pretty big. How is it used in the tumbler cleaning process? Does it just pick up all the stainless pins after media separation?

And yes, I do have a lot of powder now. Even a pound of unique, too. I'm going to need to give extra care to loading and note taking from now on. Don't want to mix and match the wrong numbers.

243winxb, I've been looking into this...

 

[buck460XVR]

A few years back "Handloader" magazine had an article about 2400 and it's versatility. One of the things that stuck out in the article was their recommendation against the use of magnum primers with 2400.

 

[brutus51]

Yeah, never used mag primers with 2400 before but since I had a bunch I figured I'd use them up.
Now I gotta get some AA#9 or WW296 to use up those primers.
Another thing, I took all long break from the .357 Mag. as I regulated my Python to target loads only about 20 years ago.
Recently bought this Dan Wesson and got back into it. Have to tell you that I find shooting a .44mag much more pleasant.
Less muzzle flash and the recoil is more of a push than a slap.
Need to find some better grips for the Dan. Anyone know where I can find a nice set of Roper style grips for it?

 

[Mixed Nuts]

Reloaded 50 cases tonight, my only 50 primed with sp primers so it was all 2400. 13., 13.2, 13.4,13.6, and 13.8 grains under 158gr HC LSWC.

One thing I will say, 2400 is more satisfying to work with than was AA#9. The 2400 grains are bigger, less prone to be disturbed by static or breeze. Felt better about the precision of each charge. Probably just a feeling, but hey, that has value, too.

Buck460xvr, I am going to follow that magazine's advice.

Brutus51, I hear this about 44 magnum. Went .357 to stretch the dollars, also saw a 6" stainless security six that looked brand new. One thing led to another and I'm on a .357 trip.

 

[Walkalong]

14.5 Grs 2400, SNS coated 158 Gr SWC, CCI 500
85 Degrees 68% RH
4" 586
6 shots each
Powder Back, Powder Forward, Powder Level
HI 1278 1298 1289
LO 1178 1234 1193
AVG 1234 1257 1241
ES 100 64 96
SD 35 25 38

My 10X measure handles both AA #9 and 2400 very well. No gripes there. AA #9 meters more precisely weight wise.

 

[243winxb]

The early 1979 chronograph, with the then new sky screens , gave the 4 numbers on the left. Looking up these numbers on a chart showed the velocity.
Older chronographs used 2 card board squares with copper wire running through it. The timer started and stopped when the circuit was broken by the bullet.

 

[Mixed Nuts]

Walkalong, I should load it up to at least 14.5 of 2400, if not a little higher. There is a lyman load for a 160 gr cast rn that goes up to 15.5 gr8 of 2400. It has full COAL.

There is a 158 lyman load, only in the booklet, that only goes up to 13.5 grains 2400 but it has a 1.575 COAL. I think the higher pressure must be caused by the shorter cartridge length.

I'm loading to full COAL, so I should go higher.

243winxb, a chronograph would be very useful. As a measure of power and as a safety tool.

 

[Rule3]

Rule3, these coated bullets with high hardness numbers must be cast, yes? I noticed that plated x-treams were swaged. I guess it's a matter of shopping around for hardcast coated bullets. They must be more common than hard plated bullets. I dunno why, but a swaged and plated bullet with no cannalure is unappealing. Like I'd ruin the plating with a magnum class roll crimp. Also, appreciate the info on your shooting of 158s.

.

Do you know how FMJ bullets are made?? They are soft swaged lead from a extruded lead coil put inside inside the jacket.




How about Speer Gold Dots, did you know they are "technically" plated bullets?

RMR sells "plated" bullets with a cannelure, I tested their bullets by over crimping the snoot out of them and smashing in a vise and hammer. They did not crack the plating and are as tough as most FMJ bullets. That said I am not a plated bullet fan but needed some for a indoor range.

Missouri Bullet Company makes some fine cast bullets hard, soft coated or no coated as do many others.

 

[Mixed Nuts]

Rule3, thanks for the link.

I knew only that swaged bullets were pressed into shape with a die, and I assumed that meant they were going to be softer bullets. I did know that jacketed bullets are jacketed swaged lead. Just know from experience that they don't fail at highpower rifle speeds.

Did not realize that speer gold dot bullets were plated. Sort of disturbing somehow even if it shouldn't be. I guess plating can be thin or thick, depending on manufacturing procedures.

After viewing some of the suggested coated bullets online, I've been wondering if cast performance's new clear lube is actually a polymer coating of somekind. The fact that I still get lead on my fingers after reloading a bunch of them probably means its not a polymer coating, but I dunno.

 

[someguy2800]

Speer gold dot, Speer deep curl, and Federal fusion bullets are all actually plated bullets, even the rifle bullets. They are very accurate and fantastic performing bullets. I load 9mm and 38 special with berry's plated. I've only ever loaded 357 with jacketed or cast. 357's for me are for hunting and whenever I want to make booming fireballs. A 125 grain xtp ahead of 21.5 grains of 296 is great fun to take to an indoor range and make everyone jump out of there pants.

 

[Dudedog]

Magnet is just used to pick up pins, they are small and chasing down ones attempting to escape without the magnet is a pain
(they do try to escape)
Magnet is not supersize whole thing with release handle is about 9" tall. 1lb?? Magnet assembly about 3.5 dia * 4" tall (not all magnet)
Pick up pins, pull up on release pins drop where you want them (or close at least)
Amazon had another brand of magnet that looked about the same for $5 less, probably all made in the same factory in China.....
I like to use Auto Wash and wax and a dab of citric acid powder(available in the canning section of the supermarket)
Some people like Car wash and wax /liquid detergent + Lemishine. The Citric acid is in the Lemishine (more expensive buying citric acid powder)

Pins last until they all escape

Again one advantage is no corn cob/walnut media to have to replace, cleaner cases, clean primer pockets if you run after depriming, faster -not counting drying time..
Only negative is the initial cost.

Missouri Bullet Company makes some fine cast bullets hard, soft coated or no coated as do many others.

MBC BHN 18 are hard cast bullets.

 

[Mixed Nuts]

Okay, bought some more cases to prime with standard primers to build more test loads with 2400.

I have loaded, at max COAL, 158gr hard cast SWC at 13., 13.2, 13.4, 13.6, 13.8, 14.,14.2, 14.4, 14.6, and 14.8 grains of 2400.

This should make a pretty good sampling of 2400 loads from my revolver.

If anybody sees anything wrong with these loads, please feel free to post.

Thanks.

 

[Dudedog]

MIdsouth has the Lyman Cyclone for ~$140 with a $25 rebate so about $121
(got an email from them today)

Sounds like you have lots of stuff to test, have fun!

 

[Mixed Nuts]

Someguy2800, I may try 125 load after I'm no longer shooting smokey lubed bullets. One hotshot move at a time.

Thanks dudedog, I'm more up to speed on the process now. One wonders what the minimum amount of tumbler equipment and cleaner might be. If you didn't want the stuff shiny clean, how little media or soap could one getaway without.

 

[Walkalong]

One wonders what the minimum amount of tumbler equipment and cleaner might be. If you didn't want the stuff shiny clean, how little media or soap could one getaway without.

None, just a clean rag to wipe dirt off of cases.

 

[Walkalong]

But I like them shiny.

 

[Walkalong]

But I used a rag until I got a tumbler in a trade.

 

[Mixed Nuts]

Walkalong. I'm currently washing them with dishwater and a scotch bright pad.

Works okay, but after about fifty cases I start imaging the rest in a wet tumbler machine.

 

[Dudedog]

Probably could get away with out the pins, but pins will clean better and cut down on your run time which saves power and wear and tear on your tumbler.
A large bottle of car wash and Wax $8 and spice jar size jar of citric acid ~$5 does will probably do 30+ thousand cases maybe more. (jar of citric acid is more than enough for a couple gallons of wash and wax)
If never tried to see how little I could get away with, it's cheap really once you get the tumbler setup. With my greedy power company probably $1 worth of power to do couple 1000 cases.
(we have usage tiers and I always like buying the power int the 3rd tier, it's twice as expensive as tier 1 power so it must be better right?)

But I like them shiny.

Me too, they may not shoot any better but they sure look nice=warm fuzzy feeling.
If they were deprimed the pockets would be clean as well.