Questions about my new Taylor and Co. Cattleman SAA

[Driftwood Johnson]

Much safer than the original. I’ve always done the 5 rounds only in my other gun. But for this, I’ll just load 6.

I strongly suggest you load them both with just five rounds. Better to load both consistently the same way, than trying to remember which is safe to load all six chambers.

 

[Stefan A]

Thanks Driftwood for the detailed response and advise.

 

[45 Dragoon]

Stefan A, I've had some of those come through the shop and they seem to work well. The nice benefit you have with it being an Uberti is a greater ammo selection. You'll be able to shoot ammo you shouldn't shoot in a Colt SAA ( 45C +p's for example). So, enjoy your Italian revolver for what it is . . . a less-expensive, strong, single action revolver.

Mike

 

[James K2020]

They're Italian. Like Ferraris and Alfas, they need some attention and love.

 

[doubleh]

By aiming high, I block my view of the target which I don’t like.

Simply elevate the front sight above the rear and and use a 6 o'clock or center hold on the target, whichever you prefer. You will have to remember how much to elevate the front sight at the distance you are shooting but it lets you see your target. Can't remember , put a mark across the sight. I don't as i shoot at different distances. I have a Taylor &Co 44 mag that I use as a 44 special and I have to do this and the lighter the load the lower it shoots. It might be right on with 44 mag but I am not going to find out. As far as the number of clicks a single action has I do not care unless it's gen-u-wine Colt. Clicks have nothing to do with shootability and I cannot hear them with hearing protection.

I usually just load 5 in any single action as I use 50 round ammo boxes and it is easy to see how much ammo remains. I even do that a lot with those new fangled semi-autos.

 

[desmobob]

Same. I’ve never seen an SAA that shot low with “standard” loads.

Having it shoot low is preferable to having it shoot high, though. Find a load that works best with the revolver st your preferred shooting distance and then carefully, slowly, little-by-little, reduce the front sight height until the POI matches your POA. Touch up the blueing and enjoy.

 

[doubleh]

And when you change distances you are back to Kentucky elevation. Haven't you watched "The Unforgiven" when John Wayne tells the woman during the indian attack" Windage and elevation, Mrs (I forget her name), windage and elevation"?

 

[desmobob]

And when you change distances you are back to Kentucky elevation. Haven't you watched "The Unforgiven" when John Wayne tells the woman during the indian attack" Windage and elevation, Mrs (I forget her name), windage and elevation"?

I'd rather have to estimate elevation from a zero at my "normal" shooting distance and load than have to guess at every distance...

 

[halfmoonclip]

Really pretty amazing how that floating firing pin works, I really didn't trust it, and the suggestion to handle all the same (hammer down on an empty) is a good one.
Yeah, I'd love a real Colt, but then I probably wouldn't shoot it.
In defense of the Italian guns, they do use music wire springs for about everything but the mainspring.
BTW, recently got a Taylor/Uberti 71-72 Open Top, and there is no 'safety notch' at all, but a loading notch, and otherwise traditional lockwork. It does have the hammer safety, as shown in Driftwood's picture.
Moon

 

[1KPerDay]

Yeah, I'd love a real Colt, but then I probably wouldn't shoot it.

Why, for pity’s sake

 

[UncleEd]

Ahem, the reason sixgun gurus like Elmer
Keith put adjustable sights on their shooting
irons was so they could adjust to all sorts of
loads and distances.

What, bottom line, do you really expect a fixed
sighted sixgun to do? Without the exact
right load for a given distance and velocity,
you'll never be dead on with a fixed sighted gun.

I think Wyatt Earp said it, or maybe he never did,
but the practical distance for a handgun in his day
was 15 yards. But he did say you could certainly
worry a gent hundreds of yards away by lobbing the
rounds.

By the way, those who saw Elmer Keith take out gallon
jugs at pretty far distances noted that he sometimes
would "walk" his rounds in before getting a hit.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Really pretty amazing how that floating firing pin works, I really didn't trust it, and the suggestion to handle all the same (hammer down on an empty) is a good one.
Yeah, I'd love a real Colt, but then I probably wouldn't shoot it.
In defense of the Italian guns, they do use music wire springs for about everything but the mainspring.
BTW, recently got a Taylor/Uberti 71-72 Open Top, and there is no 'safety notch' at all, but a loading notch, and otherwise traditional lockwork. It does have the hammer safety, as shown in Driftwood's picture.
Moon

What springs are you seeing that are music wire on a Uberti? Has it been to a shop for tuning?

 

[CraigC]

Taylor's sells a hammer and trigger that replace all that nonsense with a traditional configuration. I've been collecting them for future posterity.

The factory setup is a retractable firing pin. It is not a "floating firing pin". Ruger uses a floating firing pin. It "floats" in the frame, retained by a pin and a spring, rather than being attached to the hammer.

Colt, Schmolt. I've got SAA's from nearly every maker extant, including Colt's, USFA's, Standard and dozens of Uberti's and Pietta's. If I'd wanted over-rated, over-polished, over-hyped and over-priced Colt's, I would've bought them. Uberti makes a perfectly fine sixgun. Sure, they benefit from basic tuning but I spent way more time stoning and polishing the innards of my Colt New Frontier than I ever did on an Italian replica.

 

[halfmoonclip]

Jackrabbit, the small springs that operate the hand, and the bolt, are music wire. They are still levers, there's no room for coils, but should still be more durable than flat, leaf springs. Taylor reputedly tunes up these actions, and mine is still quite smooth, even with the replacement hammer.
As regards Colts, all my 1911s wear a prancing pony, save for a Remington Rand and a Turk. A 1911 by anyone else can be just fine, but it does feel like a Ford Corvette. All that said, I'm really not unhappy with the linguine shooters, and they bring the price within reason.
CraigC, not really wanting to battle semantics here; the pin is 'floating', as compared to fixed in a conventional SAA. The retractable setup is clever, and seems to work well enough.
Moon

 

[CraigC]

I also tend to be a little more respectful when referring to Italian guns. After all, they've been making them since long before the United States was even a colony. The oldest company in the world is Beretta, 500yrs of history.

CraigC, not really wanting to battle semantics here; the pin is 'floating', as compared to fixed in a conventional SAA.

It's not a floating firing pin. Still attached to the hammer. Some folks have called the traditional firing pin "floating", because it wiggles on its pin. Still not a floating firing pin.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Hey Moon, Those springs are almost the same as the flat springs, there's room for a coil type torsion spring to drive the bolt and trigger. I set up Uberti revolvers all the time with such a set up. Some of the cartridge guns have a Ruger type plunger and hand spring as well that's a coil spring. I have yet to see a proper set up on a Taylor's revolver right out of the box. I ain't saying there isn't one out there, I just haven't seen one. Uberti internals are well fitted and finished for the most part and timing is really close, until you put in a bolt guide, then it's a crap shoot as to where the timing ends up, usually ends up late on bolt drop with the hand being short as well. While the lever type music wire springs may last a while longer than the flat springs the torsion type springs don't break. I believe Taylor's go through their inventory and select the best timed and smoothest feeling actions before offering them for sale but as far as tuning is concerned, I don't think so without adding considerably to cost.It generally takes me about 2 solid days to properly tune a revolver, most of the cost is labor with a small cost in parts and supplies.

 

[AlexanderA]

After a while, Uberti switched to the type of cylinder pin that engaged the spring loaded latch with two positions on the pin. When the pin was pulled all the way back, the rear of the pin extended out through the rear of the frame, and blocked the hammer from falling all the way. I suspect Uberti did this simply because it was less expensive to install the two position cylinder pin than the extra machining and extra parts needed for the earlier style hammer with the built in hammer block. The two position pin was a useless safety device, because it could not be easily manipulated with one hand if the revolver needed to be fired in a hurry. So the shooter had to always remember to keep the stupid two position cylinder pin pulled to the forward position if he wanted to fire the revolver in a hurry.

I was under the impression that the "Swiss safety" (two-position cylinder pin) preceded the Uberti pivoting hammer block. I have an older ASM "Hartford Model" that originally had the two-position pin but not the hammer block.

Also, these changes were additive and not alternative -- I have Ubertis that originally came with both the two-position base pin and the pivoting hammer block.

Manipulating the two-position base pin was really doable only with a frame having the spring-loaded plunger retainer. In the "black powder" style frame, you'd have to loosen the retaining screw. That's why most of these came with an alternative (non-authentic) knurled retaining screw to make this task easier. (Still not practical.)

For the sake of authenticity, on all of mine, I changed out both the two-position base pins and the hammers with blocks for the standard parts. Of course I saved all the replaced parts in case I ever want to sell the guns.

 

[CraigC]

I believe Taylor's go through their inventory and select the best timed and smoothest feeling actions before offering them for sale but as far as tuning is concerned......

None of them are doing any of that. They are certain, extra-cost models that are tuned (I think the Cimarron Evil Roy was the first of these) with a modest upcharge but the standard guns don't get any more attention than any other gun from any other distributor. This is a myth borne out of Cimarron's marketing of +30years ago.

 

[.45Coltguy]

Pretty sure I've mentioned this before, I have a Pietta "Gun Fighter" and a Uberti/Taylors "Old Randall", both in .45 Colt. Pietta is 4 clicks, Uberti is 3 clicks. I don't really care, they both shoot fine and use the same load most of the time: 250gr coated rnfp and 8.0gr Unique. The Italian's make a very good replica 1873 revolver. I load five in both.

 

[halfmoonclip]

Jackrabbit, that turn to coils would take some real reingeering; would really love to see how you achieve all that. You are correct; the music wire torsion springs simply replace the flat springs of the originals. I've had Rugers, and they are full of coils, and cleverly done.
Taylors marketed their Smokewagon as tuned; mine was smoother than other, new, Italian revos I've handled; it remained so, even after changing out the floating pin hammer for the fixed one. Doesn't mean they are as smooth as a really custom tuned one.
Okay, Craig, suit yourself....but a firing pin that will retreat into the hammer isn't attached to the hammer. It's movement is limited by the mechanism, and its attendant springs. If it were indeed fixed, how could you safely lower it on a live round? There's mighty little movement to a firing pin pinned to the hammer.
Moon

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Hey Moon, if you picture the end of a safety pin where the wire forms a hole then you can see how the torsion springs are made. That loop fits in between the bolt legs and the pivot screw goes through the loop. I make them from .030 music wire. The one for the trigger is basically the same but has couple of more turns. I also do the Ruger thing with the hand using a tiny coil spring and plunger. The Ruger Old Army can also be improved by doing torsion type springs and adding a bolt guide.

 

[halfmoonclip]

Jackrabbit, thanks, that is kind of what I was picturing; haven't felt the need to take the '73 down again, since I replaced the 3 click with 4. I do recall the Ruger having some coils and plungers, but, again, it's been a while since I took one apart.
Don't quite know why non-original bugs me so; had a Beretta Stampede, which was (is; sold it to a buddy) just a beautifully made SAA, but it uses a transfer bar. That system is extremely safe; the default is positive, with the mechanical bar out of the way, the gun simply won't fire. But it's not original; I'd rather just load 5.
Moon