Questions about progressive presses

[leadchucker]

Will any progressive press dispense a powder charge if there's no case underneath to take it?
Will any progressive press feed a primer if there's no case there to take it?
In other words, will it cause problems if you cycle the ram with no cases in any of the stations?
Different with different brands, or pretty much universal?

 

[cfullgraf]

Dillon, Hornady, and RCBS progressive presses currently manufactured will not drop powder if no cases are present under the powder measure.

 

[LeftyTSGC]

correct on: they will not dispense powder if no case is there to activate it. On the other hand, you can feed primers, because it is independent of a case at least in a Dillon SDB, it is a mechanical feed by each lever pull. FWIW.

 

[mdm]

The Dillon 550 will pick up a primer on the down stroke. On the upstroke you have to push past the "stop" to seat the primer. If you don't do that extra push to seat the primer, that primer will just ride back and forth in the primer cup as long as you want to cycle the handle.

 

[grubbylabs]

It is not a problem to cycle the handle on a progressive press without a case in it. No case no problem, for powder or primer.

 

[grandpawj]

If the RCBS Pro 2000 is cycled without a case in the shell holder, it will not dispense powder, however, if the handle is pushed forward (assuming a filled ABS strip is loaded) it will dispense a primer every time.

 

[SASS#23149]

one that WILL cause a big mess if no case present is the Hornady 366 shot shell loader,It's easy to forget when running 1 shell thru to set up for a different load. A lot of folks who run them mount them on a cookie sheet.

yes,Iv'e done it. Yes,i've done it more than once.

 

[leadchucker]

Here's why I'm asking;
Once you are finished loading, you have to complete all the unfinished rounds that are still in the press. That will require cycling the press with no rounds in the preceding positions, as you finish up the last round. It figures that no powder will get dropped if there is no case there for it. My Lee turret is that way.

So you wouldn't want the thing to continue to feed primers either if there was no brass there for them. I was just wondering what it takes to stop the primers from flowing. I HATE the little surprises that spilled live primers can create.

I'm just trying to fully understand all the peculiarities of a progressive press before I start shopping for one.

 

[david bachelder]

I have an LNL. It will allow you to pull the handle as many times as you desire. If there is not a case present it will just rotate the shell holder and nothing is lost or damaged.

I'm assuming you would be using the LNL's case activated Powder throw, or any other case activated powder throw for that matter.

 

[dmazur]

So you wouldn't want the thing to continue to feed primers either if there was no brass there for them.

The Dillon 550B has a flexible orifice at the end of the primer magazine (#14003 - Lg, #14024 - Sm) which opens and drops a primer into the empty primer seating cup (#13824 -Lg, #13825 - Sm).

The way it is designed, a second primer won't drop into the cup if it already has a primer...the primer slide just cycles back and forth with the same primer in place.

This, together with the powder drop which won't dispense powder without a case at Station 2, permits emptying the shellplate at the end of a "session".

 

[GW Staar]

I have an LNL. It will allow you to pull the handle as many times as you desire. If there is not a case present it will just rotate the shell holder and nothing is lost or damaged.

I'm assuming you would be using the LNL's case activated Powder throw, or any other case activated powder throw for that matter.

That's a good feature for the Hornady. Also true for the RCBS Pro 2000 if you pull the primer strip out.

RCBS could improve the Pro 2000 buy providing a method to take the primer system off line without having to remove the strip. No need to wait for that, since a simple mod does just that.

One of the advantages of having a simple press with few moving parts is mods like that are simple and easy.

 

[Bailey Boat]

That's a good feature for the Hornady. Also true for the RCBS Pro 2000 if you pull the primer strip out.

RCBS could improve the Pro 2000 buy providing a method to take the primer system of line without having to remove the strip. No need to wait for that, since a simple mod does just that.

One of the advantages of having a simple press with few moving parts is mods like that are simple and easy.
GW Staar is offline Report Post

Personally you're solving an issue that doesn't exist. When the handle is returned to TDC the strip doesn't advance. Only when the handle is pushed forward and then used to raise the tool head does it advance another notch to present another primer. I "single stage" mine all the time when setting the dies and powder charge.
I don't know how old your machine may be but there was a change made after it's introduction and I have the newer of the 2 changes. Consult with RCBS and they will send you one of the newer ones..... FREE!!!

 

[cfullgraf]

Personally you're solving an issue that doesn't exist. When the handle is returned to TDC the strip doesn't advance. Only when the handle is pushed forward and then used to raise the tool head does it advance another notch to present another primer. I "single stage" mine all the time when setting the dies and powder charge.
I don't know how old your machine may be but there was a change made after it's introduction and I have the newer of the 2 changes. Consult with RCBS and they will send you one of the newer ones..... FREE!!!

How new is new to get the priming system that does not advance?

I bought my Pro2000 in August/September, 2013 time frame and the APS strip advances anytime the shell plate is raised regardless if push on the handle to seat a primer or not. In fact, I can lower the ram just to the point that the shell plate does not index, then raise the ram again and the APS strip advances.

It does not mean that my press did not sit in inventory for some time.

 

[Dr45ACP]

Dr45ACP

I load 45ACP on a Dillon 650 and everything else on a really ancient 450 that I upgraded to a 550 about 10 years ago. The 650 came with a case feeder that works well. I have seen a similar set up available for the 550 in recent Dillon catalogue, my question is "has anyone here had any experience with it"

Thanx for any info.

Dr45ACP

 

[Tom488]

Here's the deal on the APS primer system on the Pro-2000.... as I just went out to the shop and verified this:

If you cycle the press without a case in station 2, AND IF you only lower the ram until it JUST indexes, then the primer strip will advance to the next primer, leaving the unused primer in the strip.

However, if you lower the ram even the TINIEST bit more, where you begin to engage the primer plunger, or if you lower the ram all the way, and attempt to feed a primer.... either way, the primer will settle back down, maybe 1/3 of the way back in to the strip, and will prevent the strip from advancing. In other words, you will continually try and feed the same primer, over and over again, until a case shows up to take it away.

This is not new behavior... all Pro 2Ks exhibit this behavior. For the reloader, that means you can continue to cycle the press normally, without cases, and not worry about wasting primers, or spilling them all over the place. What it DOES mean, is that if you want to shut down operations, and remove the primer strip - you will have to lower the ram all the way, pluck the one primer off of the seater plug, then raise the ram half-way, and pull the primer strip out - then replace the primer you plucked out. OR, alternatively, you'll need to push that one primer back down fully into the strip (with a skinny dowel rod, or something similar), otherwise, you won't be able to remove the strip.

I almost never do this, as I stop loading when I'm out of primers - that is, I always load in increments of 25 rounds. However, on the few times that I run out of brass or bullets first, I do the above - finish the cycle, pluck the primer, pull the strip, and replace the plucked primer.

Other presses that I have, and can comment on first-hand:

LnL - if you feed a primer, and don't have a case to accept it, the primer returns to the primer shuttle, slides back under the primer stack, and gets presented again on the next cycle. You can repeat this process, and not waste any primers.

1050 - same as above. Primer falls back into shuttle, slides back under primer stack, and no new primer will drop into the shuttle, because the old one is still there.

650 - will spit out unused primers, as the rotary primer wheel advances each time, whether you use the primer or not. As far as I know, this is the only press that will spit out unused primers.

 

[jmorris]

LnL - if you feed a primer, and don't have a case to accept it, the primer returns to the primer shuttle, slides back under the primer stack, and gets presented again on the next cycle. You can repeat this process, and not waste any primers.

1050 - same as above. Primer falls back into shuttle, slides back under primer stack, and no new primer will drop into the shuttle, because the old one is still there.

650 - will spit out unused primers, as the rotary primer wheel advances each time, whether you use the primer or not. As far as I know, this is the only press that will spit out unused primers.

Yep the SD, 550, LNL and 1050 primer systems all work by the same method and the 650 will continue to feed if the primer is seated into a case or not.

Unless I am loading all of the primers to switch calibers or similar, I load until the primer alarm goes off and place inverted bullets on top of the cases that are charged with powder (and generally refil the primer tube too).

So all I have to do to continue loading next time is remove the inverted bullets and go.

 

[cfullgraf]

This is not new behavior... all Pro 2Ks exhibit this behavior. For the reloader, that means you can continue to cycle the press normally, without cases, and not worry about wasting primers, or spilling them all over the place. What it DOES mean, is that if you want to shut down operations, and remove the primer strip - you will have to lower the ram all the way, pluck the one primer off of the seater plug, then raise the ram half-way, and pull the primer strip out - then replace the primer you plucked out. OR, alternatively, you'll need to push that one primer back down fully into the strip (with a skinny dowel rod, or something similar), otherwise, you won't be able to remove the strip.

I almost never do this, as I stop loading when I'm out of primers - that is, I always load in increments of 25 rounds. However, on the few times that I run out of brass or bullets first, I do the above - finish the cycle, pluck the primer, pull the strip, and replace the plucked primer.

Ah, now some of the behavior of the APS primer system makes sense. Thanks.

I have only loaded 500 or 600 rounds on the Pro2000 and still learning its idiosyncrasies along with sorting out some other operational things not directly related to RCBS provided parts.

I also load in multiples of 50 or 100 for the most part so that I end up with a completely empty strip.

 

[GW Staar]

Personally you're solving an issue that doesn't exist. When the handle is returned to TDC the strip doesn't advance. Only when the handle is pushed forward and then used to raise the tool head does it advance another notch to present another primer. I "single stage" mine all the time when setting the dies and powder charge.
I don't know how old your machine may be but there was a change made after it's introduction and I have the newer of the 2 changes. Consult with RCBS and they will send you one of the newer ones..... FREE!!!

Mine works the same as yours...APS advances as you raise the ram. But I still prefer to be able to take APS off line....Mod 1 to stop advance, Mod 2 to prevent raising a primer.

As Tom488 points out, a raised primer does indeed stop advance, and you can clear it by putting a case in the station and prime, or push it down with a dowel, but I can't count the number of new users, who first introduced to that "feature," think the damned thing is jammed. Some even get mad enough they yank the strip out, breaking things. Trouble is...even though it's a feature that does work...it's an undocumented surprise to new users.......makes me wonder if even RCBS knew about it at first. In fact, that is the #1 reason those few who decide they hate APS after trying it once, got that way.....you push that lever 1/32" past BDC and you got a primer raised enough to catch where you need a dowel or something to push it back down. (if you know about the dowel trick, that is....BTW, I use an allen wrench instead) For me I wanted to stop the possibility of accidental raised primers while adjusting and testing things while the loaded strips are in place, so I came up with the super simple Mod 2.

And there are times when I personally don't want the system on line either...nor have a primer hanging halfway up or dangling on top of the priming rod.

One example: Say I've been loading 40 S&W and I've got a half strip of primers still in......I change the shell plate to 38 spcl. and want to test the shell plate rotation and powder drop before I continue. Yeah I could pull the strip, but then I have to remember how many empty holes were showing in back and push the strip in the same amount. I just prefer not to have that hassle when I don't have to. In a perfect world I wouldn't end a batch in the middle of a strip.....just doesn't work out that way every time.

Do keep in mind that I'm not forcing everyone to do those mods for their press. I just shared the idea for those who see them as useful.

 

[savanahsdad]

the Lee LoadMaster dose everything on down stroke , no pushing past top dead center , no case = no primer , No case = no powder, only bad thing is there no felling to primer seating , it sizes, flares, seats, crimps and primes at the same time , get a small primer 45acp case in there and it will crush the large primer trying to seat it in the small pocket , the powder system works the same as on your Lee Turret .



.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

That's funny, with my old Lee Pro 1000 I could feel all the primers going into the case, including all the ones I smashed. That's why I don't use it anymore for anything but depriming, sizing, and flaring. For that it works good.

The LNL-AP doesn't feed powder or primers when there are no cases present. It will raise a primer on the forward stroke but will lower it back into the primer shuttle on letting go of the handle.

 

[Tommy Cole]

I used a friends dillon 1050 yesterday on 357 sig's, its a dandy but we never did git um crimped enough to keep bullets from scooting back in the case about .005 when cycling them. If i had the bucks and was gona load 1000 or more at a time i would get the 1050 i think. It looked purdy old, there may be something better now?

 

[loose noose]

My RCBS Piggyback II does not drop a powder charge unless there is a case in that station, nor does it drop a primer, however a primer will appear on that little pedestal, it just won't go anywhere.

 

[savanahsdad]

That's funny, with my old Lee Pro 1000 I could feel all the primers going into the case, including all the ones I smashed. That's why I don't use it anymore for anything but depriming, sizing, and flaring. For that it works good.

The LNL-AP doesn't feed powder or primers when there are no cases present. It will raise a primer on the forward stroke but will lower it back into the primer shuttle on letting go of the handle.

have a friend with a pro1000 who said the same thing , he primes by hand now , the LoadMaster has a different prime system all together and has way more leverage, hence the lack of feel,

 

[orionengnr]

As mdm stated in post #4, the Dillon will not drop powder without a case...and the same primer will sit in the primer feeder and ride back-and-forth all day long without dropping on the bench/floor, or another feeding.

That same primer will ride back and forth until there is a case for it to seat it.

In other words...no problems.