RCBS 4X4 progressive press

[Bill Adair]

Just bought an RCBS 4X4 progressive press from a friend, and would like to hear from anyone who has owned, or used one.

The press looks like new, but has a problem advancing the shell plate to the next station. It hangs half way between positions most of the time, even with the primer mechanism removed to reduce the drag on the shell plate.

I don't see this as a major problem, because it can always be advanced manually (like any non auto indexing progressive), but it would be nice if it advanced automatically as intended.

My intention is to load in stages using one pass to size/de-prime, and expand the cases, then hand prime off the press, and finally charge, seat, and crimp on the second pass.

Priming seems to be the bane of most progressive presses, so doing that off press with my trusty Lee Autoprimes should eliminate the aggravation.

I'd also appreciate hearing of any other problems with the 4X4.

I've also posted this on the Ruger Forum, so my apologies if you read it twice.

TIA.

Bill

 

[Cortland]

RCBS progressives before the Pro 2000 (namely the 4x4 and especially the Green Machine -- not sure about the Ammomaster progressive) generally have pretty bad reputations. I think most people avoid them (and perhaps that's why nobody's responded), but if it works for you -- go for it!

Good luck

 

[Bill Adair]

Cort,

Thanks for your input.

The 4X4 was much better than the Green Machine, but never had much success as a full auto progressive (from what I have heard and read) mostly due to the priming system.

I think the Ammo Master is a big frame single stage press, capable of handling super size cases like the 50 BMG.

I been loading on a single stage press for many years, and was considering one of the Redding, Lyman, or RCBS turret presses, or a Lee 1000 progressive, but figured for $50 I wouldn't be out much money with the 4X4, and I just might get it to work.

It's certainly built well enough, and seems to be much higher quality than any of the Lee progressives I've seen.

Of course I'd much rather have a Dillon, or RCBS Pro 2000, but those are way out of my price range.

Bill

 

[Cortland]

There was an "Ammomaster Progressive," which was a progressive built on the current Ammomaster frame.

Regardless of anything else, the one thing the 4x4 definitely has going for it is RCBS's excellent warranty.

 

[klw]

The first RCBS progressives was the Green Machine. RCBS knew of the Cougar & Hunter (a straightline similiar to the CH) and the Star. They decided to make a variation of the Cougar & Hunter. As straightlines go the Green Machine wasn't bad. Handoperated straightline progressives, however, have never worked very well so the Green Machine was simply the best of a bad design.

Next came the 4x4. Nothing particularly wrong with it but nothing all that special either. Compared to the Dillon's of the day it was a bit outdated because it did not have a removable tool head.

Then there was the auto 4x4. I don't remember this one particularly well but I don't think that it had removable tool heads either. The automatic indexing was this machines claim to fame but, well, that feature didn't work all that well. This is the one that I think you have.

Somewhere in here too were the Piggyback's. CPM introduced the idea of converting a single station machine to a progressive but Dillon threatened a patent suit so that unit was dropped. RCBS brought it back. The Piggyback and the Piggyback II were, well, unfortunate. The Piggyback III and Piggyback IV, however, are excellent. Switching to their strip primer system solved the problems this idea had.

Then there was the AmmoMaster. The basic press there is still sold by both RCBS and Hornady for loading 50 BMG. Barely able to do that job.

The AmmoMaster was originally intended as a single station press that could be converted to a progressive. It was not their best work.

Up to this point the best of the RCBS progressives was the 4x4 (NOT the auto-4x4). Not a great machine but an adequate one.

There was at least one more machine, another straightline, that made it all the way to prototype form but was never produced. I'm absolutely certain about that. RCBS brough it out to Arizona for me to take a look at. I hated it. The only person they showed it to that didn't like it apparently. It was never made, not because I hated it, because they couldn't get it to resize really big rifle cartridges.

RCBS FINALLY got things right with the introduction of their Pro 2000. Wonderful press. I have two and might soon buy a third. That machine includes their strip primers as does their Piggyback III's (I've got two of those as well) and their Piggyback IV.

I owned and used all these machines. Actually as I use to collect progressives I owned about three dozen over the years including all the Dillon's EXCEPT the 650 and 1050.

The machine you have in probably the auto 4x4. I'd call RCBS and talk to their customer support people. They can probably help you.

 

[Bill Adair]

Ken,

Thanks again for your input here, and on the S&W forum as well. Much appreciated.

I found your history of RCBS progressive re-loaders particularly interesting, even though I've never seen some of the machines you mention. I'd love to find a Green Machine to play with some day.

Finally picked up my 4X4 press last weekend, and played with it for a while before packing it away again (pending move). It functions perfectly when clean, but I can see where any dirt and debris is going to cause problems.

The auto indexing would almost have to be gear (or cam) driven to overcome the resistance of spilled powder, cleaning media, etc.

Spilled powder is inevitable with all drop type powder measures in use today, and de-priming adds cleaning media particles, and burned powder/primer residue to the problem.

Most likely, I'll use the Auto 4X4 as a two pass re-loader, by resizing, de-priming, and expanding on the first pass, then prime with a hand primer, and charge with a Uniflow (or pistol powder measure) off press.

The second pass would be bullet seating and crimping only.

Bill

 

[rattraped]

RCBS Info.

As a long time user of the 4X4 it can be a pain to setup. One problem is the primer linkage setup. It will take some time to get the linkage setup. If you have an indexing problem look at the screw tension as this can cause binding.
If anyone has one for sale I would be interested in it.

Thanks
Rattraped