Questions and Contributions Please! THR Library Update

[BluesBear]

S&W

S&W revolver names before World War II
Name Caliber Frame
.22 Hand Ejector Ladysmith 22 Long M
.22/32 Target 22 Long Rifle I
.22 Outdoorsman 22 Long Rifle K
.32 Hand Ejector (round Butt) 32 S&W Long I
.32 Regulation Police (Square Butt) 32 S&W Long I
.32-20 Hand Ejector 32-20 Win. K
.38 Military&Police 38 Spl K
.38 Hand Ejector (same as above, with
adjustable sights)
.38 Regulation Police (Square Butt) 38 S&W I
.38 Terrier 2" Round Butt 38 S&W I
.38/44 Heavy Duty (fixed sights) 38 Spl N
.38/44 Outdoorsman (Adj. Sights) 38 Spl N
.357 Magnum 357 Mag N
.44 HAnd Ejector Military Model 44 Spl N
.44 Hand ejector Model 1926 44 Spl N
(shrouded extractor rod)
.45 U.S. Army Revolver, Model 1917 45 ACP N
.455 Hand ejector British Service 455 Mark II N

Letter designations assigned S&W Revolvers 1900-1930
32 Double Action R
32 Safety Hammerless G
38 Single Action S
38 Double Action D
38 Safety Hammerless Y
44 Double Action L
22 Hand Ejector M
32 Hand ejector I
38 Military and Police K
44 Hand Ejector N
38 Double Action Perfect P
22 Perfect Single Shot T
35 Automatic A
32 Regulation Police B
38 Regulation Police E
22/32 Heavy Frame Target V

Factory Model/caliber designation begun in 1930s
22/32 Tarket IT22 Square Butt
22/32 Kit Gun IT22 Round Butt
K-22 Masterpiece KT22
32 Hand Ejector I32 Round Butt
32 Regulation Police I32 Square Butt
K-32 Masterpiece KT32
38 Regulation Police I38 Square Butt
38 S&W Terrier I32 Round Butt
38 Military & Police K38
38/44 Heavy Duty N38
K-38 Masterpiece KT38
38/44 Outdoorsman NT38
357 Magnum NT357
1926 Model 44 Military N44
1926 Model 44 Target NT44
1917 Army N45


S&W Model Listing
Model year year Frame Caliber Name
intro Discon Size
10 1899 K 38 Spl Military & Police
10 HB 1960 K 38 Spl Military & Police Heavy Barrel
11 1936 1965 K 38 S&W Military & Police
12 1953 1986 KA 38 Spl Military & Police Airweight
13 1974 K 357 Mag 357 Magnum M&P
14 1947 1982 KT 38 Spl K-38 Masterpiece
15 1949 KT 38 Spl K-38 Combat Masterpiece
16 1947 1973 KT 32 S&W Long K-32 Masterpiece
17 1946 KT 22 LR K-22 Masterpiece
18 1949 1986 KT 22 LR K-22 Combat Masterpiece
19 1955 KT 357 Mag 357 Combat Magnum
20 1930 1966 N 38 Spl 38/44 Heavy Duty
21 1908 1966 N 44 Spl 1950 Model 44 Military
22 1917 1966 N 45 ACP 1950 Model 45 Army
23 1931 1966 NT 38 Spl 38/44 Outdoorsman
24 1908 1966 NT 44 Spl 1950 Model 44 Target
24 1984 1984 NT 44 Spl 7500 units reintroduced
25 1955 1983 NT 45 ACP 1955 Model 45 Target
25-3 1977 1977 NT 45 Colt 125th Commemorative
25-4 1977 1977 NT 45 Colt 125th Delux Comm
25-5 1978 NT 45 Colt 45 Colt
26 1950 1966 NT 45 ACP 1950 45 Target Light Barrel
27 1935 NT 357 Mag 357 Magnum
28 1954 1986 NT 357 Mag 357 Highway Patrolman
29 1955 NT 44 Mag 44 Magnum
30 1896 1976 I&J 32 S&W Long 32 Hand Ejector
31 1917 I&J 32 S&W Long 32 Regulation Police
32 1936 1974 I&J 38 S&W 38 Terrier
33 1917 1974 I&J 38 S&W 38 Regulation Police
34 1936 I&J 22 LR 22/32 Kit Gun 4" barrel
35 1911 1973 I&J 22 LR 22/32 Target 6" Barrel
36 1950 J 38 Spl 38 Chief Special
37 1952 JA 38 Spl 38 Chief Special Airweight
38 1955 JAC 38 Spl Bodyguard
39 1954 1981 Auto 9mm 9mm Double Action
both alloy and steel
39-1 1960 1960 Auto 38 AMU Commonly called M-52A
alloy
40 1952 1974 JS 38 Spl Centennial
41 1952 Auto 22 LR 22 Semi-Automatic
41-1 1960 1972 Auto 22 short 22 Short Semi-Auto
42 1953 1974 JAT 22 LR Centennial Airweight
43 1954 1974 JAT 22 LR 22/32 Kit Gun Airweight
44 1954 1959 Auto 9mm 9mm Semi, Single Action
alloy
45 1936 1965 K 22 LR 22 Military & Police
46 1959 1968 Auto 22 LR 22 Semi Auto
47 Experimental number used on several guns
48 1959 1986 KTM 22 WMRF K-22 Masterpiece MRF
49 1959 JC 38 Spl Bodyguard Steel Frame
50 1955 1975 JT 38 Spl 38 Chief Special Target
51 1960 1974 JTM 22 WMRF 22/32 MRF Kit Gun
52 1961 Auto 38 Spl 38 Chief Special Target
Steel
52-A See Model 39-1
53 1961 1974 KTC 22 Jet 22 center fire magnum
54 Experimental never issued
55 Experimental never issued
56 1962 1963 KT 38 Spl KTX 38 Became Mod 15 2" bl.
57 1964 NT 41 Mag 41 Magnum
58 1964 1978 N 41 Mag 41 Magnum Military& Police
59 1971 1981 Auto 9mm 14 shot 9mm Semi-Auto
Alloy
60 1965 J 38 Spl 38 Chief Special Stainless
61 1970 1973 Auto 22 LR 22 Escort
62 Experimental never issued
63 1977 JT 22 LR 1977 22/32 Kit Gun Stainless
64 1970 K 38 Spl 38 Military&Police Stainless
65 1974 K 357 Mag 357 Mag M&P Stainless
66 1971 KT 357 Mag 357 Combat Mag Stainless
67 1972 KT 38 Spl 38 Combat Masterpiece Stainless
68 1976 1976 KT 38 Spl California Highway Patrol
Model Stainless
69/75 Not officially assigned -- used experimentally
76 1968 1974 Auto 9mm Machine Pistol
77 1970 1978 22 cal Air rifle
78 1971 1978 22 Cal CO2 Pellet Pistol
79 1971 1978 177 Cal CO2 Pellet Pistol
80 1975 1978 177 BB CO2 Semi Auto Rifle


New Model Numbering System
--------------------------
147-A 1979 1979 9mm 14 shot DA steel frame Model 59
439 1979 9mm 8 shot DA Semi Auto Alloy
459 1979 9mm 14 shot DA Semi Auto Alloy
469 1983 9mm 12 Shot DA Semi Auto Alloy
520 1980 1980 N 357 Mag, Fixed Sights
539 1980 1983 9mm 8 shot DA semi auto Carbon Steel
547 1980 1985 K Steel 9mm Military & Police
559 1980 1983 Auto 9mm 14 shot DA Semi Auto Carbon Steel
581 1980 L 357 Mag Distinguished Service Magnum
586 1980 L 357 Mag Distinguished Combat Magnum
624 1985 1986 NT 44 Spl 1985 Target Stainless
629 1979 NT 44 Mag Stainless
639 1982 Auto 9mm 8 shot DA Semi Auto Stainless
645 1985 Auto 45ACP DA Semi Auto Stainless
649 1985 JC 38 Spl Bodyguard Stainless
650 1982 JM 22 WMRF Service Kit Gun Stainless
651 1982 JTM 22 WMRF Target Kit Gun Stainless
659 1982 Auto 9mm 14 shot DA semi Auto Stainless
669 1985 Auto 9mm 12 shot DA Semi Auto Stainless
681 1980 L 357 Mag Distinguished Service Mag Stainless
686 1980 L 357 Mag Distinguished Combat Mag Stainless


Model and Dash numbering system
--------------------------------
Model 10
-1 1959 Heavy Barrel
-2 1961 Changed extractor rod thread to LH on standard barrel
-3 1961 Same as above, for heavy barrel
-4 1962 Screw in front of trigger eliminated
-5 1962 1/10" to 1/8" front sight, on standard barrel
-5 1962 Screw in front of trigger guard eliminated on
heavy barrel model
-7 1977 Change to put gas ring from yoke to cylinder
-8 1977 Change to put gas ring from yoke to cylinder
on heavy barrel model
Model 12 1957
-1 1962 Change extractor rod to LH thread, eliminate
screw in front of trigger guard
-2 1962 Front sight changed from 1/10" to 1/8"
-3 1977 Gas ring on yoke to cylinder
-4 1984 Change frame thickness to same as all K frames
Model 13 No designation used to avoid confusion with air force model
13 air crewman
Model 13
-1 1974 Introduced
-2 1977 Change back to gas ring on cylinder
-3 1982 eliminate cylinder counterbore
Model 14,15,16,17,18,48,53 (all start without dash in 1957)
-1 1959 Change to LH extractor rod thread
-2 1961 Cylinder stop changed, hole in front of trigger
guard eliminated
-3 1967 Relocation of rear sight leaf screw
-4 1977 Changed gas ring from yoke to cylinder
19 All of the above changes and
-5 1982 Eliminate cylinder counterbore

N-Frame Model Blue
------------------

Model 20,21,22,23,24,25 (except 25-5) 26,27,28,29
-1 1960 Change to LH thread
-2 1961 Cylinder stop changed, hole in front of trigger
guard eliminated
-3 1982 Eliminate cylinder counterbore (magnums only)
Model 57 1964 Introduced
-1 1982 Eliminate cylinder counterbore
Model 629 1980 Introduced
-1 1982 Eliminate cylinder counterbore
Model 25-5 1978 -5 means 45 Colt caliber
125'th anniversary model, -3 (standard) -4 (delux)
both of these used a shorter than standard cylinder.
K-Frame Stainless Models
------------------------
64 1970 Introduced
-1 1972 Heavy barrel
-2 1977 2" standard barrel, gas ring from yoke to cylinder
-3 1977 Same as above, for heavy barrel
65 -1 1974 introduced
-2 1977 gas ring from yoke to cylinder
-3 1982 Eliminate cylinder counterbore
66 1971 introduced
-1 1977 Gas ring from yoke to cylinder
-2 1982 Eliminate cylinder counterbore
67 1972 introduced
-1 1977 gas ring from yoke to cylinder
39 1957 start of model numbering system
-1, 1961 Made in 38 AMU cartridge for military 87 made.
52-A -2 1971 Change of extractor
41 1957 start of model numbering system
-1 1960 22 Short chambering
(dash number not always stamped)
52 1961 introduced
-1 1963 Single action only
-2 1971 Changed extractor
52-A See model 39-1
59 1971 introduced, no dash numbers used during production
61 1970 introduced in March
-1 May '70 Add magazine safety
-2 Sep '70 Addition of barrel nut
-3 1971 Forged Al frame
76 1968 introduced, discontinued 1974 no dash numbers used

Small Frame Revolvers
---------------------
Model 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35
1957 Start of numbering system
-1 1961 Change from I frame to J frame
36 -1 1967 Indicates 3" heavy barrel
37, 38, 40, 42, 43, 49, 63, 649, 650, 651
No dash numbers ued on above numbers
60 1965 Introduced
-1 1972 Heavy barrel variation made in 1972, not marketed limited production only


COLT

D frame = Detective Special, Diamondback
P frame = Single Action Army
O frame = Government, Commander & Officers ACP
I frame = Python, Trooper aka .41 frame

that's all of the Colts I can think of off the top of my head

 

[Starpower]

It's All so Ovibuos

Reprinted from December issue of Reader's Digest

Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht frist and last ltteer is at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by istlef but the wrod as wlohe.

 

[P95Carry]

A Smith ''Tour de force'' Bear!!

Pax ...... bolt ....vs lever Overall distictively different.

BOLT (generic) - is much like a house bolt ... a straight and notionally round long rod with a handle .. and lugs that enable locking when the whole is rotated. Fancy things like extractor are added ... and of course down middle a firing pin!

Remember tho the part in almost any gun that houses the firing pin and restrains the case in the chamber is still a bolt ... like in an AK, AR etc .. but ''BOLT ACTION'' is describing what i have outlined.



LEVER - can be simplified into two categories .. the ''falling block'' variety .. a la Martini Henry .... and then the other main one like my Savage 99C ... where a bolt is made to travel rearward on operation of the lever .. either ejecting a spent case and/or opening access to chamber for an insertion of new round. As Lever is closed up .. bolt travels forward to impinge once more on case and lock up.

I am sure others could provide a better and more elegant synopsis of these two varieties.

 

[BerettaNut92]

Beretta.

Not Baretta.
Not Barreta.
Not Baretta.
Not Baratta. :banghead:
Not Barrata.

Beretta.

 

[45R]

Please add Bling Bling

 

[Mr Jody Hudson]

We never did get the definition of Mall Ninja?????? Is it already posted somewhere?

 

[pax]

Jody,

Start at http://www.geocities.com/suketh.geo/gun/mall_ninja_1.html for a basic understanding of the term. That was the original 'mall ninja' thread, which first appeared on GlockTalk. There are a bunch of equally hilarious threads on TFL from around the same time frame.

Anyone want to give a condensed explanation of what a mall ninja is? I can't get mine short enough...

pax

 

[Thumper]

Here's a couple of must-haves, pax:

I think the copyright issues are long past here, but I know nothing about such things.

Shooting to Live

http://www.gutterfighting.org/files/shooting_to_live.pdf

and Kill or Get Killed

http://www.gutterfighting.org/files/Kill_or_Get_Killed.pdf

 

[Alexey931]

A bunch of questions/suggestions

WSD - White Self Destruction
IPSC - International Practical Shooting Confederation
IDPA - ?


ought six or '06 - the .30-06 US Springfield M2 (7.62x63) round


battery, out of - a condition when the slide stops short of the normal forward position while chambering a round. This prevents firing with any functional pistol. Questions: 1. What is the correct wording for the opposite (normal) condition (in battery, locked up)? 2. Does this term belong exclusively to pistols? If so, what is the correct set of terms for other breech loaders?


stripper clip - a clip used for loading magazines by way of mounting it over the mag and pushing the rounds with your thumb into the mag. The stripper clip is to be discarded immediately after the loading. The most common examples: SKS, M14.


en bloc clip - a clip used for loading magazines by way of inserting it inside the mag along with the rounds it contains. It cannot be discarded until the last round is shot. The most common example: M1 Garand.

 

[Devonai]

"Carbine" can be pronounced with a long E or a long I in the second syllable, according to my dictionary. Somebody's personal preference for one or the other should not end up in THR's lexicon, with all due respect.

 

[sm]

Mall Ninja

Disclaimer: Not meant as derogatory to any security guards, armoured car guards, LEO active or retired.

Mall Ninja wannabe LEO/SWAT/HRT...etc., whom couldn't cut it, and has more imagination than common sense that is employed by a mall. Easily excited, overly dressed for sucess AEB by "Bat Belt". Though makes minimum wage, spends monies on magazines and catalogs. usually has no gun, because A) couldn't pass shooting req's, B) spent monies on aforementioned magazines and "Bat Belt".

OH heck...pax was right ( as usual). Go to a mall in 5 min you'll know.

One of those life deals one must experience...words...words...ain't none to describe. Whatever you do don't take a picture...we couldn't stand it and for heavens sake don't rile the critters. Best observed from a distance.

 

[Alexey931]

Some new questions/suggestions

Ma Deuce: Browning M2 machine gun (.50)
Big Mama: ?
Armadillo, Amorous: ?

A very on topic link:

http://www.speer-bullets.com/default.asp?s1=5&s2=17&letter=A


Best regards

 

[Alexey931]

Acronyms

NBC: ? (gun related)
NRA: National Rifle Association
GOA: Gun Owners of America
JPFO: ?
CRPA: ? (alternative to Certified Royal Pain in the A--)
USPSA: ?

Best regards

 

[stellarpod]

Use of to vs. too

"I'm going to the rifle range today."

"I'd go with you, but I've just got too much work to do."

stellarpod

 

[BluesBear]

It is NOT ought six

It is AUGHT six


OUGHT = -- used to express obligation <ought to pay our debts>, advisability <ought to take care of yourself>, natural expectation <ought to be here by now>, or logical consequence <the result ought to be infinity>

NAUGHT = the arithmetical symbol 0
'aught is the colloquial pronounciation of naught



Thirty Aught Six = 30 0 6

Thirty Ought Six = 30 should be 6

 

[Hawk]

Gun / photography question:

Why do so many firearm photos include some form of cylindrical device (shotgun shell, wood dowel, brass cartridge, "C" battery, crayon, mini flashlight, vienna sausage, etc., etc.) stuck in the trigger guard?

I'm betting there's a good reason, but I couldn't even begin to hazard a guess what it might be.

 

[Gewehr98]

Hawk, that's an easy one to answer!

The objects in the trigger guards are there to raise the gun off the background surface, for a better picture, vs. the gun laying flat.

 

[45R]

The little things in the trigger guard are to hold the pistol up for better pictures.

 

[BigG]

30/06 = I thought it was THIRTY ODD SIX.

 

[BrokenPaw]

LOSE is when something is not there, its now lost.

[emphasis mine]
Phil Ca: You've uncovered one of the cardinal rules of Internet Grammar Nitpicking. To wit: It is astoundingly difficult to write a nitpicky post without making a mistake in it that someone else can nitpick.

No, I don't actually have anything useful to add to the thread...

-BP

 

[cdbeaver]

This is no professional description, but I own two of them so maybe I can explain a bit about--

Over-under shotgun: A double-barrelled shotgun with one barrel super-imposed over another rather than side-by-side.

Over-unders can have double or single triggers.

Over-unders can be selective as to which barrel fires first, but not all have that added-cost feature. If not, then the bottom barrel generally fires first and it most often is the modified barrel of a modified-full choke set of barrels.

Some over-under shotguns are equipped with ejectors to eject fired cases; others have only lifters to pull the empty or loaded cartridge out of the chamber far enough to be grasped with the fingers.

Over-unders come in 12, 16, 20 and 28 gauges. Perhaps also in .410 bore and 10-gauge, though I have no personal experience with the latter two.

 

[Erich]

Pet peeve

Muzzle brake

Please.

 

[Mike Irwin]

How about bullet abbreviations?

L - Lead

J - Jacketed

SJ - Semi Jacketed.

RN - Lead Round Nose

SWC - Semi Wadcutter

WC - Wadcutter

HP - Hollow Point

SP - Soft Point

TC - Truncated Cone


The above abbreviations can be combined in a number of ways to describe a bullet with multiple charactieristics.

For example:

LRN -- Lead Round Nose

JHP -- Jacketed Hollow Point

Or, the ever popular...

LSWCHP -- Lead Semi Wadcutter Hollow Point.

 

[P95Carry]

OK ... first a small grammar/spell gripe, as we've had a few!! ''ect'' ??? How come?? The word ''ETCETERA is abreviated normally to ''ETC''.!! And means ''and so on/and so forth''.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

OK other thing - and bear with me, it's an old matter. Maybe not even library material at all. But it concerns images.........

OK, many people have DSL/broadband . I don't and I ain't gonna explain the why. But .... much as I well appreciate fine pics - and we get plenty ... I find it a pain in a$$ to wait ages for a whole page of pics to download .... sometimes a page pic burden can become 2Mb or more with all the big ones. Plus, sometimes I could run browser full-screen at 1280 .. and still have pics scrolling off!!

I brought this up before and a lot of people don't seem to care. OK fine, but for those who just might here is my suggestion/request .. as maybe a library item if deemed any use.

Most people who take pics at high resolution probably know enough about image work, and have image applications - to be able to reduce both size physically and file size too. It's not difficult . and many could do it just by using a freebie like ''Irfanview''.

My own personal suggestion as to what is well adequate (and let's face it ...... it can save some bandwidth too) - is to have a pic no bigger than 600 pixel max dimension .. and compressed so not much bigger than 50 -60k. This can be well adequate to show what is needed ... and a high-res can even be made available if someone wants it... by request.

Admittedly there are times when a hot-linked pic is pretty large ... that cannot always be helped.

For those who don't care ... flame away. I just think it would help many more than just me.

Sorry Pax if this is not very on topic!

 

[Mr Jody Hudson]

Thank you for the Mall Ninja definitions! Now I know AND... I know one! He however is far, far, better as he has experienced several shootings (five accidental discharges IN the locker room at his work).

Yes, he has a real gun, several of them, often 7 on his person.

AND... he has used his special baton several times. He has even used his special metal curly angled hooky thingy that can be used for grabbing and pulling and twisting limbs on people. Someone made a face at him through a car window and he busted in the car window with his thingy and got it around thier neck and pulled them out of the car. That was his last day at that job for a while. His dad had a LOT of political power there and kept getting him hired back and getting his file purged.

What was really interesting was that ALL of us would make fun of him, TO HIS FACE, and his responses were strangely much like the Mall Ninja responses from Gecko! Ahhh, truth and fiction can be such close kindred.

Thanks for clearing up the definition and for helping me wash my eyes with tears of laughter this morning!