R&D of "No Shake" Lee Super Tray

[LiveLife]

I just sent this drawing to Calvin.

Hello Calvin,​

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Since we are tossing ideas around, how about this ("S" instead of "Z")?​

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What if we DETACH primer flip tray from the Z-trough/chute and straighten out "Z" to "S" shape (Long enough for 50 large primers) so the primers will flow more like straight feed tube?​

​

Detaching the primer flip tray will allow use of current triangle flip tray or new square tray with cover because once the "S" trough/chute is filled, there's no need for the flip tray.​

​

Note I offset the insert point to not interfere with SPP frame tube (Will also clear Pro 1000 and Deluxe APP)​

 

[vepr12]

And while we are at it, how about a flexible piece of plastic that is manually manipulated towards the bottom of the Z-shoot, to feed the last 5-6 primers that will not slide into the primer feed arm.

 

[GW Staar]

And while we are at it, how about a flexible piece of plastic that is manually manipulated towards the bottom of the Z-shoot, to feed the last 5-6 primers that will not slide into the primer feed arm.sm

I 3D printed a longer tube that is also offset to miss my lighting/video camera, which has a smaller diameter quicker dump into the primer shuttle. It feeds most times to the 2nd to the last primer....so did not quite succeed in perfection either. (Excuse the sanding dust on the bottom)

 

[LiveLife]

I 3D printed a longer tube that is also offset to miss my lighting/video camera, which has a smaller diameter quicker dump into the primer shuttle. It feeds most times to the 2nd to the last primer....so did not quite succeed in perfection either. (Excuse the New Mexico dust on the bottom)

Believe me, Calvin and I have brainstormed endless considerations and most mentioned on THR ... And some have gone to R&D, eventually to production, some are still "in the works" and some on the back burner.

While it's easy for us to say, "How about this?"; Calvin points out the reality of running a global company to manufacture and stock thousands of parts while developing new products/enhancing existing products (Both require retooling/subcontract work).

I think when they see our response in real time as to what we REALLY think, it may help them decide to make which projects higher priority.

And while we are at it, how about a flexible piece of plastic that is manually manipulated towards the bottom of the Z-shoot, to feed the last 5-6 primers that will not slide into the primer feed arm.

The "S" primer feed design I emailed Calvin would drop every primer into the primer attachment trough/chute ("feed arm") due to very gradual radius "S" instead of more twisty "Z" - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ke-lee-super-tray.927681/page-3#post-12842512

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I am on triangular trays for now........ I tested the very old round trays and the triangular works better than those also, for some reason.

I'm of the same opinion. I tried the round trays also and they didn't work as well as the triangular trays. Sometimes the triangular trays will feed primers and sometimes they won't. But the round tray on the APP Deluxe won't feed at all without constantly tapping on them. It's funny, my triangle trays all seem to want to feed from the left side but don't want to feed from the right side.

 

[GW Staar]

Believe me, Calvin and I have brainstormed endless considerations and most mentioned on THR ... And some have gone to R&D, eventually to production, some are still "in the works" and some on the back burner.

While it's easy for us to say, "How about this?"; Calvin points out the reality of running a global company to manufacture and stock thousands of parts while developing new products/enhancing existing products (Both require retooling/subcontract work).

I think when they see our response in real time as to what we REALLY think, it may help them decide to make which projects higher priority.



The "S" primer feed design I emailed Calvin would drop every primer into the primer attachment trough/chute ("feed arm") due to very gradual radius "S" instead of more twisty "Z" - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ke-lee-super-tray.927681/page-3#post-12842512

It's not so easy to design perfection, but teamwork and adding a few heads can bring more ideas and clarity. Lee does a pretty dang good job.....and this open exchange can only help. It certainly gives me more empathy for the designers. The triangle is a pretty good solution.....the trough below it needs a little more work.....which is why I worked on the curve at the bottom. The offset I designed was only for the lights and video, and there are probably better solutions that won't encroach on the primer location. So ignore that part and look at the bottom with it's sharper quicker curve.

3d printing is way more difficult than their injection molded stuff to get slickNsmooth sliding surfaces inside.....but a Lee factory I don't have. But I'm just pointing out that if I can get all but one to turn that bottom corner and feed, then if Lee were to lessen the length of that final turn into the shuttle by reducing the diameter of the last curve....I betcha they may be able to feed to the last primer, especially if users add a little graphite pushing a loaded Q-tip from the bottom..

 

[Tilos]

Here's another Facebook guy's 3D printed primer trough:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/462694899071354/user/1060364946

There's a vid at that link.


.

 

[LiveLife]

Here's another Facebook guy's 3D printed primer trough:

That's where it all started, a straight primer feed tube guaranteed to drop primers. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/r-d-of-no-shake-lee-super-tray.927681/

And being able to attach triangle flip tray was considered but was looking for more compact solution to hold 50 large primers.

 

[LiveLife]

I just sent this drawing to Calvin.

Hello Calvin,​

​

Since we are tossing ideas around, how about ... we DETACH primer flip tray from the Z-trough/chute and straighten out "Z" to "S" shape (Long enough for 50 large primers) so the primers will flow more like straight feed tube?​

Got this email reply from Calvin so stay tuned for Super Tray 2.0 :

Calvin at Lee Precision, Inc.​

Staff - 02/26/2024 8:35 am​

​

Hello John,​

​

Thank you for your many suggestions. The Super Tray has been removed from the website for the time being. We are working towards different solutions for this product.​

​

Calvin Katzfey​

Lee Precision, Inc.​

​

So are my two Super Trays going to be like collectible? Perhaps 2 of 10 made/sold? One is still NIB

 

[GW Staar]

....... so stay tuned for Super Tray 2.0 :

.........So are my two Super Trays going to be like collectible? Perhaps 2 of 10 made/sold? One is still NIB ​

Mine's worthless......I pried open the bottom and made it work better with graphite. Maybe they could try a helix tube traveling around a post! (just kidding.......now watch, he'll say "Eureka!" and invent the first totally safe, perfectly performing priming system on planet earth!) LOL!

And by the way, tell John Lee for me to put in a cheap offer to buy RCBS from their latest overlords. Who knows maybe they'd except anything.....then move it the hell out of California and resurrect it........all that brand needs is some TLC. and some respect for their engineering people.

 

[Tilos]

It's not so easy to design perfection, but teamwork and adding a few heads can bring more ideas and clarity. Lee does a pretty dang good job.....and this open exchange can only help. It certainly gives me more empathy for the designers. The triangle is a pretty good solution.....the trough below it needs a little more work.....which is why I worked on the curve at the bottom. The offset I designed was only for the lights and video, and there are probably better solutions that won't encroach on the primer location. So ignore that part and look at the bottom with it's sharper quicker curve.

3d printing is way more difficult than their injection molded stuff to get slickNsmooth sliding surfaces inside.....but a Lee factory I don't have. But I'm just pointing out that if I can get all but one to turn that bottom corner and feed, then if Lee were to lessen the length of that final turn into the shuttle by reducing the diameter of the last curve....I betcha they may be able to feed to the last primer, especially if users add a little graphite pushing a loaded Q-tip from the bottom.

To me that no shake super tray is a solution looking for a problem.
Who thought a zigzag shute would flow better that a straight down trough??
What was the goal...more primers in the quay (?), so make the tray bigger or the trough/longer-2pcs. that snap together/steeper/straight down.
And that super tray is long/wide, subject potato chipping out of the mold, difficult to package, and expensive to ship.
OK, I'm done trashing it.
jmo,
.

 

[LiveLife]

To me that no shake super tray is a solution looking for a problem.
Who thought a zigzag shute would flow better that a straight down trough??
What was the goal...more primers in the quay (?), so make the tray bigger/ trough/long/steeper/straight down.
And that super tray is long/wide, subject potato chipping out of the mold, difficult to package, and expensive to ship.

Full disclosure: While I initiated the "No Shake" primer feed tube product idea, I was not involved in the R&D/beta testing of Super Tray.

And these are emails I sent to Calvin after Super Tray was posted on website for sale and two samples were sent for product evaluation:

• "Hello Calvin, I have tested the Super Tray on Bench Prime and SPP and looks like the bumps on surface (Likely meant to reduce friction) may actually be trapping primers from sliding down. Also, Z trough/chute angle may need to be steeper with rounder radius to feed the primers smoothly (I think if length of Z trough/chute is limited to 50 large primers, shorter length could allow for steeper angle and rounder radius)"
• "Another thing is final radius before being inserted into primer attachment really needs less sharp radius. I attached close up picture of "bumps" and final radius angle"
• "If other suggestions don't allow smooth sliding of primers, then have you considered bending the feed point so the Super Tray is more vertical?"
• "Another request from me. Looks like the hinges are designed to fail after so many open/close cycles. Could you consider two piece (top/bottom) hinge design with locking hinges or closed cylinders with pin through hinge design?"

Leading to this email:

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"Calvin,​

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A quick beta testing review could have identified problems of primers not feeding/sliding readily.​

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Believe me, I am here to HELP and WANT Lee Precision to succeed!​

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I spent quite a bit of time on the "No Shake" S curve primer feed tube (Which is essentially single column device with gentle "S" curves and was getting ready to email you the concept after making a model for proof of concept but the Super Tray was released and I wanted to give that a try first.​

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We can do this and produce a "working" no shake primer feed tube for your customers.​

​

- John"​

And the Super Tray was pulled from the website.

 

[vanfunk]

I got my Super Trays. Mine are total garbage and won’t keep primers oriented right side up. Anyone else have this problem? I wish I could complain about them not migrating down the “z” but alas I never got that far.

 

[LiveLife]

I got my Super Trays. Mine are total garbage and won’t keep primers oriented right side up. Anyone else have this problem? I wish I could complain about them not migrating down the “z” but alas I never got that far.

Super Tray has been pulled from the website.

I will ask Calvin if they would consider sending customers of original Super Tray when replacement improved 2.0 version is released.

 

[vanfunk]

Interesting, thanks! I emailed support and let them know that the trays are completely FUBAR.

 

[Tilos]

Interesting, thanks! I emailed support and let them know that the trays are completely FUBAR.

Keep that tray, it may be a collectable someday.
.

 

[higgite]

Keep that tray, it may be a collectable someday.
.

Lee's version of the Edsel?

 

[LiveLife]

This is "open" collaboration between manufacturer and customer base at work and president John Lee confirmed customers who purchased the original Super Tray will receive replacements (See bottom email):

"Very few made their way into circulation and we will replace all affected."​

Super Tray has been pulled from the website.

I will ask Calvin if they would consider sending customers of original Super Tray when replacement improved 2.0 version is released.

Email response from Calvin:

Calvin at Lee Precision, Inc.​

Staff - 02/29/2024 10:50 am​

​

Hello John,​

​

All options will be considered when we get to this point [of replacement release]. I will do my best to keep you updated.​

​

Calvin Katzfey​

Lee Precision, Inc.​

• Another request from me. Looks like the hinges are designed to fail after so many open/close cycles. Could you consider two piece (top/bottom) hinge design with locking hinges or closed cylinders with pin through hinge design?"

I received a long insightful email from president John Lee with some history behind various product development regarding Super Tray, never produced "Dillon 550 killer" press, stepped "M" style powder through expander, Ultimate Turret Press and here's the portion regarding the Super Tray:

John Lee​

Staff - 03/01/2024 12:48 pm​

​

Thanks for the follow up ... The Super Tray was from an idea we had at least 15 years ago, in fact the beginnings were from a drawing I asked my Dad [Richard Lee] to make, before the days of 3d printing.​

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It was part of a progressive press project that never materialized ... the project code name DK550 (Dillon Killer). It was a progressive that was not built to a price point, it was big heavy lots of nuts, bolts, screws and springs. All the things people think they want but in reality wont pay for it if it's painted red ...​

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I resurrected the concept [of Super Tray], designed the flip tray and z track ... 3d printed several prototype parts and they worked flawlessly. Invested over $20,000 in a two cavity injection mold and the primers flow like a mud river.​

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A last minute material change was made to allow solvent welding I believe is causing the problem.​

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We have the mold in the tool shop to change the material and use a mechanical fastener instead of the solvent weld. Stay tuned as they say.​

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Very few made their way into circulation and we will replace all affected.​

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Sincerely,​

​

John Lee, President​

Lee Precision, Inc.​

Full disclosure: ... I was not involved in the R&D/beta testing of Super Tray.

​

"Calvin,​

​

A quick beta testing review could have identified problems of primers not feeding/sliding readily.​

John Lee's email explains why I was not involved in beta testing of Super Tray

 

[Soonerpesek]

It was part of a progressive press project that never materialized ... the project code name DK550 (Dillon Killer).

That........................................is hilarious....................!!!!.............................and not in a context John Lee would appreciate................

ETA: and yes, I do have and use some LEE products...

 

[LiveLife]

That........................................is hilarious....................!!!!.............................and not in a context John Lee would appreciate................

ETA: and yes, I do have and use some LEE products...

I think "Pro 5000" would have been a better code name.

Shortly after SPP/Pro 6000 kit launch, I did propose a product idea of removable tool head progressive press that locked down the tool head tight (Like many aftermarket Dillon tool head products and DIY/mods) that still used breech lock bushings so multiple "lockable" tool heads with dies and powder measure, etc. could be easily/quickly swapped out for different calibers.

Initial response was "Hmmmm ... Don't have the time/resources at this moment" but since they were focused on product launch of SPP/Pro 6000 kit, it was tabled. Never know, could be the next product development.

 

[vepr12]

I think "Pro 5000" would have been a better code name.

Shortly after SPP/Pro 6000 kit launch, I did propose a product idea of removable tool head progressive press that locked down the tool head tight (Like many aftermarket Dillon tool head products and DIY/mods) that still used breech lock bushings so multiple "lockable" tool heads with dies and powder measure, etc. could be easily/quickly swapped out for different calibers.

Initial response was "Hmmmm ... Don't have the time/resources at this moment" but since they were focused on product launch of SPP/Pro 6000 kit, it was tabled. Never know, could be the next product development.

I always thought Lee had cornady in their crosshairs. About all they would have to do to put them down is sell T-shirts, safes and wicked gascheck punch die.