RCBS Pro2000 primer feeder - can it be done manually?

[mikemyers]

I'm probably the only one here who would want to do this, but now that I've got my Pro 2000 set up and working, I'd like to do one round at a time for a while until I get familiar with it.

The primer feeder advances automatically, even if it doesn't insert a primer into a round. Is there a way to control this manually? Or, is there a way to move the primer strip forward/backwards to put the next primer loaded on the strip, under the next bullet to be primed?

Overall, I'm very pleased with the press. I haven't sorted out the lockout die yet, but I bought one of the "sewing machine lights" mentioned in the lighting thread, and it directs light into the shell below the bullet seating station perfectly. I also bought the lighting kit from Dan at Inline Fabrication. Maybe I'll remove the lockout die, and replace the bullet seater/crimper with separate dies, as I used to use.

 

[2011redrider]

Check out post on ar15.Com by GW staar of this forum.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/322049_.html&page=1
Or go low tech and cut a popsicle stick in half and wedge it in the advance mechanism to temporarily take the primer advance offline.

 

[higgite]

Mike,

Where do the primers go if they aren't being inserted into cases? I have a Pro 2000 and the strip does not advance if the a primer isn't used. The strip moves a little bit in and out, but doesn't advance if no case is present. The unused primer just rides atop the priming rod up and down in place. If yours is a new press and acts as you say, call RCBS because it shouldn't do that. You may have a broken part. I understand some of the early ones did advance like you say, but RCBS fixed that a long time ago. I bought mine in 2011.

GWS and I had this conversation awhile back in a similar thread. His press is an early model which he modified to overcome its shortcomings before RCBS made some improvements.

A word of caution: Do not try to move the strip manually if a primer has been pushed up out of the strip by the priming rod. It will jam the mechanism and probably bugger up the strip. (Don't ask me how I know this.) If a primer has been unseated and you want to remove the strip, what I do is take a short piece of 1/8" wood dowel rod, raise the shellplate until the primer rod clears the bottom side and push the primer back into its hole in the strip. Then you can manually push from the front and/or pull the strip out the back side of the press. Do not try to pull it back out the same way it went in. There are little plastic ratchets in the mechanism that can break if you try to pull the strip in reverse.

 

[mikemyers]

Higgite - where do they go? The strip advances, and they are now past the priming station. I didn't realize that RCBS fixed this - yes, it's a new press, but maybe it's an old part or broken? I will call RCBS Monday morning.

2011redrider - thanks! I spent half an hour trying to figure that thing out, got totally confusabobbled, went to my press, watched it work, then back to the laptop, and back and forth. Because of another issue, I have a second complete "head" assembly with all these parts, and slowly it began to make sense to me.

Here's a video I took of how my primer parts move. Is the video you linked to suggesting that we just "block" the part at the left, so that it remains open, regardless of the position of the cam at the right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGb5Q51XFLA&feature=youtu.be

 

[higgite]

Higgite - where do they go? The strip advances, and they are now past the priming station.

Mike, I think I know what is happening. If you don't push the handle forward as if to prime a case, the primer isn't unseated from the strip. In that case, yes, the strip will advance since there isn't an unused primer "floating" around. To stop the strip from advancing when you don't want it to, push the handle forward with no case at station 2. The strip will not advance until the primer is used or is pushed back down into the strip as I described in my previous post. It's the loose primer that keeps the strip from advancing.

 

[cfullgraf]

Here's a video I took of how my primer parts move. Is the video you linked to suggesting that we just "block" the part at the left, so that it remains open, regardless of the position of the cam at the right?

Yes, if you block that part you mentioned open, the primer will not advance. Remove the block when you want to seat a primer and re-insert the block when you do not want to seat a primer and advance the strip.

The only time my Pro2000 will not advance the primer strip, except when blocked as indicated above, is when a primer is partially moved out of the the strip and it essentially "jams" the system. Then, I have other issues.

I know of several folks whose primer strip feed does not feed if the primer is not seated but I do not know what the differences are between what I am doing and my press and what they are doing and their presses.

It does not answer your question but gives you some things to consider.

If you cannot come up with a good solution, you might try resizing and priming without the powder charge and bullet seating dies in place. Resize and prime a bunch of cases at one time.

Then remove the sizing die and install the powder measure and bullet seating. Run the cases through the press charging and seating bullets only. It will allow you to concentrate on one case at a time without worrying about missing primers.

Since, while learning the press, you are not worried about production rates, what does it matter.

When you are comfortable with things, you can put the two steps back together.

 

[mikemyers]

Lots of good ideas.

I loaded 50 rounds today - the plan is to shoot them tomorrow, and load 50 more.

I'm not concerned with productivity.

My goal was to set up the press the way it will be used from now on, load a single case, cycle it through, one station at a time (removing it to check the powder load), and after it is finished, to do one more. I wanted to go through all the motions, including pushing the lever forward so as to seat the next primer, even though there won't be a shell there much of the time.

The press is very straightforward and simple. The only extra steps I needed to go through today, was to cycle the primer strip forward until there was a primer ready to be pushed into the case in station #2. Inconvenient, but it worked. Sometimes I needed to eject the strip from the rear, and feed it into the press again, to do a few primers still in the strip.

I thought about making the parts shown in the tutorial above, but once I know the press, and am used to it, I doubt I'd have any need for that.

I think I'm understanding that if there is an unused primer at station #2, the primer strip should not advance? If so, I may need a replacement part from RCBS.


It probably doesn't mean anything, but the "upper plate" including the primer feed system that came with my press doesn't really make the "click" noise that I read about - but my extra part most certainly does. Quite loud. That may or may not be a clue.


(Making the video I posted was good for me, as I got to learn what was going on, and also how to use my new video editing tools. The still photos up above didn't mean anything to me, until I actually saw the parts in motion. I still don't know what is going on INSIDE the device, that is grabbing the strip and pulling it forward. I imagine something moves into one of the notches on the right, and drags the strip forward?)

 

[higgite]

Mike, I'm still not sure that we are on the same page. Please try this. With no brass in the shellplate, slowly insert a primer strip until it clicks one time. Then cycle the press handle one time as you would if you were resizing and then priming a case, but without a case, just an empty shellplate. The strip should advance one notch as the shellplate moves upward and a primer should pop up through the shell plate when you push the handle fully to the rear at the end of the cycle. Now cycle the press again, still without a case in the shellplate. The primer should disappear back under the shellplate as it rotates and the primer strip should NOT advance. The same primer should pop back up again at the end of the cycle. It should do that until you actually insert a case, resize it and prime it. After the primed case advances to station 3, the primer strip should advance one notch and the next primer should pop up in station 2 at the end of the stroke. You should then be able to cycle the primed case through stations 4 and 5 without the primer strip advancing. If it doesn't do that, call RCBS. They will make it right.

 

[mikemyers]

I tried this just now with an empty primer strip. I will do it again tomorrow, after loading more primers. Here's what happened.

With no brass in the shellplate, slowly insert a primer strip until it clicks one time. Then cycle the press handle one time as you would if you were resizing and then priming a case, but without a case, just an empty shellplate. The strip should advance one notch as the shellplate moves upward and a primer should pop up through the shell plate when you push the handle fully to the rear at the end of the cycle.


That worked, as described, and the primer would have popped up, as you describe, had there been a primer in place.


Now cycle the press again, still without a case in the shellplate. The primer should disappear back under the shellplate as it rotates and the primer strip should NOT advance.

For me, it does advance - but maybe that is because there are no primers. I will try this again tomorrow, no cases, but with a full strip of primers. By the way, at this point, I can "wiggle" the arm towards me, and back, over and over, and each time the primer strip advances once. That's how I get primer strips out of the press, loaded or otherwise. edit: .....oops, I didn't rotate the shell plate. I will repeat this properly.


I will do the rest of your test tomorrow, with primers.
The same primer should pop back up again at the end of the cycle. It should do that until you actually insert a case, resize it and prime it. After the primed case advances to station 3, the primer strip should advance one notch and the next primer should pop up in station 2 at the end of the stroke. You should then be able to cycle the primed case through stations 4 and 5 without the primer strip advancing.

 

[mikemyers]

Higgite, not sure if this will help, but I have a second (complete) assembly sitting on my desk. It includes the primer strip feeder, the seater adjustment underneath - everything. I could replace the one on my press now with this one.

With an empty primer strip inserted, every time I push on the "curved" part at the right, that pushes back the internal mechanism, it "clicks" and when I release it, it returns to the rest position, while advancing the primer strip by one hole.

How is it supposed to know whether or not there is still a primer in the strip, or whether that primer had been pushed into a shell?

 

[higgite]

Mike, yes, the strip WILL advance if there is no primer there. An empty strip will advance one notch every time the press is cycled until it goes all the way through. What keeps a loaded strip from advancing is a primer that has been pushed out of the dugout (the strip) and is on deck, so to speak, biding its time waiting for the next case to show up.

Try what I outlined in post #8 with a new, fully loaded APS strip. Do it with the press, not the spare part in your hand.

 

[mikemyers]

.........What keeps a loaded strip from advancing is a primer that has been pushed out of the dugout (the strip) and is on deck, so to speak, biding its time waiting for the next case to show up.........

I think THAT is the key to all this; I missed it before.

Maybe this is my fault - when I was only doing one shell at a time, I don't think I was pushing forward on the arm after the first push, as I didn't see any purpose to it. Maybe from what you just wrote, that's supposed to put the shell "on deck", and since I wasn't doing that, the strip kept advancing. Great. Not sure if this is the problem, but it sounds like it fits your description. Thanks!!

I should get in the habit of doing that every time, regardless of what else is going on.

 

[2011redrider]

First picture is unmodified, second picture, wood stick holds system open and does not slide forward as the follower slides off the cam. Does the same as the mod referenced in the link to ar15.Com. it's cut in half to allow clearance for the lever. I use it to setup dies and avoid the strip advancing and not having to pull the strips out of the press.

 

[mikemyers]

Thanks - I tried that last night with a chunk of stiff rubber - worked fine. For my purposes, 'higgite's method should be all I need, if my press behaves. Now that I understand what's going on, doing it like your above photo shows is quick and easy. When you first posted using a popsicle stick, I had no idea of where it might go. Now it's obvious. It's so simple, I wonder why RCBS didn't add the "on/off" selector. Maybe Dan at Inline Fabrication will make a kit. He would probably sell quite a few.


Starting soon, I need to make up a "list" of what to do in what order, repeating every time, so I don't get mixed up while loading.

1. load empty shell in station #1
2. check powder level in station #5
3. place bullet in station #5
4. quick look every so often at powder level in hopper and primer strips
5. pull lever back
6. push lever forward
7. index the star wheel smoothly

I found myself getting interrupted yesterday, because when the finished round got ejected as it entered station #1, it went into the green tray, bounced up and out of it, and ended up on my floor. I need to find something to go in the front of the green tray to prevent that - am now using blue "painter's tape".

I also need to make a mental/written list of what to do if I get interrupted, say if my phone rings, or if the lockout die stops the press. A month or two from now, all this will probably seem incredibly simple.

 

[higgite]

Mike, you should also check the spent primer jar every so often. If it gets full, the spent primers will stack up in the tube and eventually back up into station 1 and jam the shellplate. (Again, don’t ask me how I know that.)

As for finished rounds bouncing out of the bin, Inline Fabrication sells sheet metal barriers to block the bin opening, but being, um, frugal ('cheap' is such an ugly word) I just cut one from the heavy cardboard backing of a writing tablet and it works fine. The only escapees I get now are when the bin gets too full.

Also, I don’t know your loading routine or press setup, but would suggest that after an interruption, check to see if each case that should have powder does in fact have powder and is not double charged, not only station 5. Also, make sure the case in station 1 has in fact been sized and deprimed and the case in station 2 does in fact have a new primer before you advance the shellplate. Don't assume anything after an interruption. A break in the routine is when a mistake is most likely to occur. Take your time, be safe and have fun.

Also, I always weigh the powder charge from the next case to be charged after an interruption. I find that whenever there is a break in the action, the next powder charge is not always but is often up to 1/10 grain too heavy due to the powder settling from vibrations and such during the break or if I cycle the press without charging a case. That's with W231. I don't know if other powders act the same or not.

 

[2011redrider]

http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0235/0841/products/IMG_6762.JPG?v=1397162443 http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0235/0841/products/IMG_6767.JPG?v=1397162441

Try these fron Dan at Inline Fabrication, just ingore the smurf color!
I also fold up a papertowel in the bottom of the bin to cushion the first few rounds from bouncing.

 

[mikemyers]

2011redrider - I like the idea of making my own - nothing fancy - and I like the idea of paper towel or foam in the bin, so the round won't bounce. Maybe with that in place, I won't need the barrier. I doubt I'll be doing more than 50 or 100 rounds at a time.

higgite - that reply is a gold mine of good information. The spent primer jar I tend to empty when it makes a louder sound when I bump it with my leg. ...but I never considered all of what you just posted.

The other suggestions about interruptions - a few of those I already knew to do, but not all of them. I'll add that to my check list.

My press is set up as many people here suggested a year ago:

Station 1 resize
Station 2 prime
Station 3 powder drop
Station 4 lockout die
Station 5 seat and crimp​

I know it's better to use separate seater and crimp dies, but I figure this is "good enough", and so many people recommended the lock-out die.

Loading routine is to use one non-resized shell to check/set the powder drop. If that is good after five or six tries, I start off by loading one round at a time, and cycle that single round through the press. With one round, I think I'm not going to miss anything - my full attention is on whatever station the shell is at. Then I make sure the round fits my case gauge, and I feel the primer to make sure it's seated. I used to also check the length, but that stays 1.2" always (so far).

Every so often, I deliberately do something "wrong". I've run empty shells past the powder drop, and double-charged them, both to make sure that the lockout die catches the problem, and to make sure it's obvious to me when I look into the shell. Yesterday, the lockout die didn't seem to be working properly. I played with it, read the directions, and watched the videos over and over. I think it is now set properly. I don't think I'll ever get to "trust it 100%". I like the idea of seeing what is in the case before I seal it up with a bullet.



Also, every so often, something really does go wrong. I had one shell that the primer went into, but didn't fit "flush" at the bottom. I put it back in the press, but the primer wouldn't seat any deeper. I was going to use a bullet puller, and I considered whether it was safe to fire, but not knowing enough, it went into the trash at the range. (I need yet another press for my RCBS bullet puller, and I forgot to bring the hammer-type puller with me to the range today.)

I'm used to using Unique powder in my manual press. The powder charge, if set to 5.2, will range between 5.1 and 5.3. I think this is because the Unique powder is like "flakes", and just doesn't meter very accurately. Every so often it's even 5.1 or 5.4. I'm now using Bullseye, and the charge should be 5.7 -- and round after round, when I check, it actually stays 5.7.

 

[2011redrider]

I found the little cup too small for spent primers and forced me to mount the press hanging over the bench to get clearance for the cup to move up and down with the press cycles.

I got some 7/16" OD x 5/16" ID tubing at Lowes and ran it into a qt sized Gatorade bottle. Drilled a hole in the cap with a step drill till the hose fit, but, was still snug. also attached it with a thumbscrew hose clamp from Harbor Freight to allow quick removal in case I need to remove a live primer, just hold my hand under the metal pipe and catch the primer and then re attach the hose.

I decap all my brass with a universal decapper prior to wet tumbling, so it was filling up the cup way too fast.

 

[mikemyers]

....... to allow quick removal in case I need to remove a live primer, just hold my hand under the metal pipe and catch the primer and then re attach the hose.......

Just checking - how would you ever have a live primer coming down the tube? I thought I read that doing this in the press deliberately is very dangerous? Is my memory that bad, or am I missing something else?

 

[2011redrider]

Done it gently for years, just go very slow. No point in throwing then out! Never had a problem. There are times when t he case mouth gets crushed and need to remove the primer before throwing the case in the scrap bucket.

 

[GW Staar]

Hi gentlemen!

Primers are made to go off with an impact. Slowly pressing them out is doable and done often by many. I've done it a few times before and there's no bang if you press them out easy and slow.

Odds are worse if you got lots of crimped corrosive primers you want to remove. The crimps require more force. They may not go off either, but I'm not gonna try it. You could pull bullets and empty powder......and just chamber the the brass and fire them......but I wouldn't want that corrosive crap in my barrel either.

If a brainfart puts a rifle primer into a pistol case, or vice versa.....that would also be a reason to remove em nice and slow. I removed a few only because I was experimenting when I first got my RCBS bench swager (testing primer insertion ease after swaging) I had zero problems removing the primers in the swaged brass.

 

[GW Staar]

One thing I have learned since going progressive, is that iffy primer pockets can ruin an otherwise good reloading session. Nothing is more aggravating than having a run stopped cold in the middle of it.

Such can happen if a primer won't seat right. A primer pocket edge catches a primer and mangles it.

Usually that occurs while trying to load previously crimped military brass. Such annoyances are caused by crimps forgotten, or not swaged/reamed enough, or swaged or reamed edges are too sharp. One reason I like RCBS's newest military reamers is that they produce a finished opened edge that never catches a primer edge.

I've used a Trimmate tool for a while now and find it indispensable to prevent that problem just by bumping swaged pockets for a split second while I also uniform primer depth.

So I swage, bump the military reamer, and uniform the pockets.

Uniforming the pockets is necessary to prevent high primers when you load for an AR15/AR10. Many won't prime on a progressive for fear of high primers, but if you uniform the pockets first, and set you primer depth stop on the Pro 2000 correctly, you will never have the AR high primer experience.

Ask me how I know that's important.

 

[mikemyers]

Mike, yes, the strip WILL advance if there is no primer there. An empty strip will advance one notch every time the press is cycled until it goes all the way through. What keeps a loaded strip from advancing is a primer that has been pushed out of the dugout (the strip) and is on deck, so to speak, biding its time waiting for the next case to show up......

Tonight was very productive.

First, regarding your test, I put a full strip of 25 primers into the press. I pushed the lever forwards, with no shell on top. The primer moved quite a ways upwards, and then dropped down when I returned the lever. When I pulled the lever towards me, to cycle the press, the primer moved down the line, and the next primer was moved into position.

At that moment, I thought it was "broken" since it wasn't working as you described.

Then I did some reloading - more on that below - and I noticed that the problem had vanished. When there was no case above the primer, the press moved the primer up, back down, and the primer strip did NOT cycle. That's the way it should be. So either the issue is intermittent, or it fixed itself.



Next, having written down all the things I need to do to cycle the press, I decided to use it normally, using all 5 stations as in the videow, just taking my time and checking *everything* each time BEFORE I moved the lever down, up, forwards, and back. In doing that, I noticed:

a) I don't have to make sure the primer feed is working - I have a pretty good "feel" of what that station is doing. No need to look.

b) I don't need to do anything with the powder drop - that runs perfectly. All I need to do is occasionally make sure the powder isn't getting too low.

c) I don't need to check anything on the lockout die. Once I got it set, it worked perfectly. I tried it in situations where it should fail, and sure enough, it locked up.

d) You suggested I check the powder in that station, #4, but it's really difficult to see. On the other hand, when it gets to station #5 I have a perfect view of the powder, and can verify it's about as high each time. I don't put the next bullet on until I've checked that.


Everything went like clockwork! The only interruptions were stopping to add the next primer strip, and when I was done, using the few primers left in my first primer strip, that moved out of the press while I was testing.


50 rounds in about an hour isn't going to break any speed records, but it's the fastest I have ever loaded that many rounds. I'm happy.

 

[mikemyers]

......Never had a problem.......

When/if I ever get as comfortable at this as you guys, maybe I'll feel differently, but for now the most "risk" I've taken is when a primer was half seated, to put it in a vice between two soft lead vice covers, and give it just a little pressure - it goes right into place, at least far enough for the press to do the rest of the job.

One primer last time didn't want to go any further. It went into the dump. By the time that happens again, I'll get my "hammer type" bullet puller working, or better yet, find an old junk press into which I can mount my never-used RCBS bullet puller. I've had it for 35 years - never got it out of the box. Didn't even know I had it, until I was sorting out all my dies. .....speaking of which, there are several I plan to give away. Won't ever use them.