Real Revolvers of the Old West

[kjeff50cal]

There was a thread in the General Form about movie goofs especially Westerns (1873 Colts in circa 1840 pieces). But what if it wasn't a goof. Alot of gun makers sold for US consumption besides Colt and S&W. For that matter Colt had a couple of "modern" looking revolvers during the mid to late 1870s/80s. Remember the H&R logo has their establishment date, 1871 (they started in handguns & single barrel shotguns that some say really won the west). What other out of place guns were actually used in the Old West.

 

[dogngun]

I'm sure many people carried some of the smaller pocket size revolvers made by Iver Johnson, H & R, Forehand and Wadsworth, Meriden, and even S&W and Colt. Smith made some very nice single action pocket sized top break revolvers - I have owned several, and shot them all, as well as a DAO Smith from about 1886.
Earlier, percussion revolvers made by Starr, Remington, and European makers such as Adams were used, as well as some old War revolvers, such as Dance Brothers and Griswold & Gunnison.

As well as the pre 1873 cartridge conversions, Colt made several open top cartridge revolvers based on their wedge frame, and finally the 1873 Single Action Army. Smith made many small revolvers in .38 S&W, .32 and .22rf along with the large .44's.
Remington made a fine line of percussion and cartridge revolvers, as did Merwin Hulbert, which some people consider the best made revolver of the period.

Many of the smaller framed guns mentioned continued to be made till WWII, so somebody was buying them and carrying them. Almost all of the old top break and solid frame revolvers I have owned showed lots of use.

Many of these guns used to be available for really little money, but prices and interest in them are increasing.
They are very interesting to me because I can still afford to buy one once in a while.
Mark

 

[BigG]

I think the old front stuffing Colts lasted a lot longer into the Cowboy era than TV and Hollywood has indicated. Most C&B Colts I have handled have mucho wear, indicating long use.

Also, the cartridge conversions, like Richards, Mason, etc. were for the high tech crowd of the day.

There was a company called Merwin and Hulbert that had a good reputation with large top break revolvers. I think the company evolved into Iver Johnson or H&R before disappearing.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

In "Roughing It," Mark Twain describes the pistols he and his fellow travellers carried on the Overland Stage to Nevada in 1862:

"My brother had a Colt's Navy revolver, which he carried uncapped for safety. Mister Beemis had an Allen pepper-box revolver. And I was armed to the teeth with a pitiful little Smith and Wesson seven-shooter, which shot a ball the size of a homeopathic pill. It took all seven to make a dose for an adult."

Mister Beemis and his pepper-box was the subject of some of Twain's finest humor.

 

[timothy75]

I dont understand the question. A goof would be a Win92 in a movie that took place in 1881. How could it not be a goof? And what do you mean out of place guns used in the west? Do you mean rare ones?

 

[BigG]

I guess a lot of people are unaware that the pepperbox came out about exactly the same time as the Colt revolver - late 1830s - early 40s. This was due to the percussion cap ignition that allowed repeating designs to be workable. The front loading pepperbox was used contemporary with the Peacemaker.

Names such as Allen & Wheelock, Allen & Thurber, and Hopkins & Allen all come to mind.

 

[kjeff50cal]

I dont understand the question. A goof would be a Win92 in a movie that took place in 1881. How could it not be a goof? And what do you mean out of place guns used in the west? Do you mean rare ones?

Have you ever seen an 1878 Colt revolver? If you saw one you would swair that some one took a Colt Official Police (1898) or a 1917 and hung a Mod. P barrel and ejector housing on it. H&R and Iver Johnson both had "modern looking" DA revolvers contemporary the SAA (1873).

To the point we all have seen the Saturday afternoon "Oaters" where the good guys had SAAs and if you looked at the BGs and extras guns you would glimse what may have been a 1917 Colt with the above mods on it...... or was it? If you truely came up the props to a western would you use the Adamses H&Rs and DA Colts that were actually used to tame the West. We are not going to get into the bolt actions contribution to the West but if you are courious look up needle rifle.

 

[timothy75]

I dont know where you get the idea the west was won with DA's. Although they were around they were not the guns that won the west. They were more delicate, less reliable, and werent adopted for service untill 1889-92 plus people didnt realise the tactical advantage of them for a while they were simply an alternative. As far as sidearms C&B revos, conversions, and SA's were the most used on the frontier. This thread should be called " The DA is an old design" your making it sound like everyone carried a 77-78 DA

 

[kjeff50cal]

My point is Colt SAAs were not the only gun in town and as you say double actions are alot older than you think (try pepperboxes).

 

[timothy75]

Oh I agree, as other mentioned there were several other manufacturers. If your really interested check out some of the antique gun auctions sites. Its really neat to see the guns that were around back then.

 

[dogngun]

You might also look up a Fleyderman's Antique Gun catalog, or one of the books Nathan Fleyderman wrote on antique guns. He is very knowledegable, and an interesting writer.

Mark

 

[joab]

How about the K31 used in Lonesome Dove II

 

[Onmilo]

If you look at what people own and carry today, you will get a pretty good idea of what handguns people owned and used then.
Small inexpensive handguns were the mainstay for most common people who needed a home or shop defense weapon.
Outdoorsmen tended to opt for something larger in size, caliber, and quality.
Gunmen bought, or acquired, they very best handguns they could get ahold of and this is still true today.

It might suprise some people but early double action revolvers were extremely popular with the lawmen and neer do wells roaming around out west, and they were even more popular with Police officers and ruffians in the east.
The westerners chose larger, best quality guns while the east coasters relied on smaller caliber, but overall good quality, revolvers.

 

[kjeff50cal]

If you look at what people own and carry today, you will get a pretty good idea of what handguns people owned and used then.
Small inexpensive handguns were the mainstay for most common people who needed a home or shop defense weapon.
Outdoorsmen tended to opt for something larger in size, caliber, and quality.
Gunmen bought, or acquired, they very best handguns they could get ahold of and this is still true today.

It might suprise some people but early double action revolvers were extremely popular with the lawmen and neer do wells roaming around out west, and they were even more popular with Police officers and ruffians in the east.
The westerners chose larger, best quality guns while the east coasters relied on smaller caliber, but overall good quality, revolvers.

+1 Onmilo

 

[dogngun]

This might be of interest. Buffalo Bill Cody and Bat Masterson both owned and carried Savage .32 Autos.

See http;//members.aol.com/Savage1907/

Buffalo Bill liked his so much, he gave several as Christmas gifts to close friends.

Bat Masterson carried his in New York City.

Mark

 

[Vern Humphrey]

This might be of interest. Buffalo Bill Cody and Bat Masterson both owned and carried Savage .32 Autos.

Savage had a policy of getting old-time lawmen to carry their guns. They advertised them under the motto, "Ten Shots Quick."

They tried to get Uncle Billy Tilghman to carry one. Uncle Billy said, "It's been my experience if you can't do it with six, you can't do it."