Real world sling use

[LoneStarWings]

For engagements > 50m they're just about essential unless you have some other kind of support or bipod, in my opinion. For CQB? Nah.

 

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

The single point slings are a must for any member of a 3 man rapid response team at one of the country's largest indoor shopping centers.

 

[PandaBearBG]

The army may not teach the use of a sling, but the Marines sure do, especially for those standing off hand shots. One shot, one kill eh?

 

[AStone]

Here's a late night thought.

A long gun sling is used to carry said gun.

There are several methods for that.
I can only comment on two.

American carry: typical barrel up on strong side.
Slow to deploy.

African carry, mounts the sling backwards,
so that one carries the rifle on the weak side,
barrel down, but it deploys MUCH faster.

Both my rifles have slings mounted African carry.

 

[coloradokevin]

Who'd have guessed that a sling debate would end up being such a contentious issue?

Anyway, I've used the standard "carry strap" slings as a shooting aid for many years when hunting/target shooting, but haven't been able to easily apply their use to the CQB encounters that I train for in law enforcement. I don't honestly think that it takes very long to get into a sling position to shoot, I just don't like how the rifle is slung when it isn't in use with those simple two-point carry straps!

So, my current setup on my work rifle is a single point sling, which allows me to easily shoulder and fire the weapon from either the strong or weak side, and allows me to drop the weapon to a decent place if I need to use my hands for anything (like cuffing a bad guy... I'd say that we take prisoners a lot more often than the military, at least in my estimation).

Still, to be fair, I wouldn't call myself the 'sling guru' or anything like that... My single-point sling is simply a regular carry strap that I've adjusted and threaded through an end plate sling adapter. Nothing fancy here, it just does what I need it to do for the type of engagements I train to encounter!

 

[PandaBearBG]

Agreed coloradokevin this is getting a bit vague, maybe alemonkey you should be a bit more specific, today on the modern battle field, with all these new technologies, and more urban warfare such as CQB, room clearing, street to street fighting, and the advent of new shorter, compact rifle's and smg's slinging up may not have a significant impact on accuracy. Single point slings for use of LEO's or military carbines, are more to keep it on your body and at the ready.

If you are asking about WWI/WWII where most rifles were long rifles,and this even applies to Viet Nam/Korea where the most prominent rifle was the long 20" m16, a sling is a quick and easy way to get a solid, stable sight picture, in a long range (100-300m) engagement. Not everyone did it but I think if the situation provided a chance to use your sling, I'm sure at least some would.

I guess it depends on the person and rifle, try aiming with an M1 standing and then with an shorty M4, the length and weight play a big part in whether or not to use a sling.

 

[alemonkey]

maybe alemonkey you should be a bit more specific

Well, I've asked the question twice now and I feel I've been pretty clear. I'm interested to know if slings actually were used in real world combat, especially WWII. I didn't ask whether they help you shoot more accurately (I know they do), or whether someone uses them for hunting.

Sorry for the frustration, I just feel that sometimes people don't actually read the original post.

 

[Maverick223]

American carry: typical barrel up on strong side.
Slow to deploy.

African carry, mounts the sling backwards,
so that one carries the rifle on the weak side,
barrel down, but it deploys MUCH faster.

I disagree, American carry is MUCH faster for me.

 

[Eightball]

Here's a thought: In WWII, did the guys with that Turner Saddlery/1907 sling ever really unhook, turn it 180 degrees, cinch up around their bicep, etc etc, or when most people use a sling do they just hastily do the quick wrap around method?

 

[jackdanson]

Now a days, it seems to me that the range is either too short to be neccessary, the fight happens too fast (my case) or, when it is a long deliberate engagment, heavier or more precise weapons are used.

Yes. I would really doubt that slings are used on any regular basis with the way the military currently works. Most incidents you hear about are relatively short and fast. You can watch modern combat videos all over the net. I've never seen a sling being used in those. Also, a great many of U.S. soliders do not "aim" per se in these videos.

Of course I have no first hand experience with this, so feel free to call me an idiot.

 

[Maverick223]

or when most people use a sling do they just hastily do the quick wrap around method?

That's me, I just wrap it around my elbow, pass my hand through, and cinch it in tight...good nuff for me...why would you need to turn it 180 degrees?

 

[Cosmoline]

From what I've seen in footage (for whatever that's worth), our guys have gotten a lot more careful about using their sights than they were in the Vietnam era. I've seen footage from Vietnam showing soldiers down behind barriers just sticking their M-16's up and spraying. For one thing you really can't spray like that with most of the AR type platforms in use anymore, and I believe the training has gotten quite a bit better. Plus these guys are all pros now. Esp. on the front lines. They've gotten exceptionally good at what they do and have a lot of training. So you tend to see them shouldering arms properly and using the sights properly.

 

[junkman_01]

How about slings? That's what this discussion started out to be about.

 

[KBintheSLC]

In a fire fight, you rarely even use the sights, much less a sling!

Uuh... he's talking about a rifle fight guy... not close range pistol combat. In a rifle battle you absolutely will be using your sights... if you want to win.

I personally would not keep a rifle that didn't have both a sling and sights.

<OT deleted by taliv>

 

[Maverick223]

I personally would not keep a rifle that didn't have both a sling and sights.

+1 (though it needn't have irons, optics are fine by me).

 

[AStone]

How about slings? That's what this discussion started out to be about.

I second that.

I disagree, American carry is MUCH faster for me.

Maverick, if it works for you for whatever reason, then you should definitely stay with it.

African carry deploys roughly 3X faster for me than American carry. YMMV. Of course, perhaps some would argue that I'm not doing it right, but I seem to be doing the same others are with it.

Now, likewise, I might say that maybe you're not trying African carry the most efficient way.

Here's my method.

Sling on "backwards" so pad is at stock end. Carry rifle barrel down, underside of rifle (or shotgun) facing forward on my left (weak side). My left hand rests on the fore end.

To deploy, my left hand sweeps diagonally left, rotating inward, which pulls the fore end up into shooting position. The sling just naturally falls off my shoulder.

Simultaneously, my right hand swings up to meet the pistol grip/trigger.

I can be from carry to pulling the trigger in less than a second if I push it. Rarely do.

Again, YMMV. If someone's got a speed technique for American carry, I'm all ears ... er, eyes.

Nem

 

[Maverick223]

If someone's got a speed technique for American carry, I'm all ears ... er, eyes.

I think that it simply has to do with what you are used to and more comfortable doing. For me American carry is how I started and is much quicker, for you African...we could likely teach each other quite a bit about the other style. I hold the butt of the rifle with my right hand rotate the rifle and inserting my hand in the sling in one smooth motion. The only disadvantage is if others accompany myself (specifically behind you), thereby making dismounting in this fashion something that I use in the field (when alone) or should the need ever arise for defense. For use at the range I simply slide the rifle off the shoulder, as speed is not necessary and I prefer to only keep my muzzle pointed toward things that I am willing to destroy.

 

[John Parker]

The single point slings are a must for any member of a 3 man rapid response team at one of the country's largest indoor shopping centers.

They use five-man teams now. Better 360 coverage while moving past Victoria's Secret.

 

[alemonkey]

<OT deleted by taliv>

For those that have attempted to answer my question, I do thank you, especially the ones who offered real world experience.

<OT deleted by taliv>

 

[taliv]

further OT posts will result in infractions



Nema, where'd you hear those referred to as "american" and "african" carry? I'd never heard that before.

When I took the thunder ranch precision rifle class about a decade ago, they taught what you describe as 'african'. It has worked well for me with traditional form-factor rifles, like say, a scoped rem700/win70 with nothing else on it, and a traditional 2-point sling. once i start bolting on crap (which is inevitable) or changing the sling to something else (e.g. 1907) its utility degrades rapidly.

I also find it makes a big difference where the sling is attached. e.g. trying to do 'african' with a magpul PRS stock is quite irritating

 

[JWF III]

African carry, mounts the sling backwards,
so that one carries the rifle on the weak side,
barrel down, but it deploys MUCH faster.

That's exactly what the USMC taught my father (and he taught me) in the late 50s.

If someone's got a speed technique for American carry, I'm all ears ... er, eyes.

Carrying this way I do basically as Maverick describes. Pull butt stock forward (under arm) and "spin" the muzzle up and on target.

However all this refers to use as carry straps, not as slings. The absolute fastest way to use a carry strap is to reach up, and remove the strap by the quick release swivels, and put it in your pocket. Need proof? Ask an old upland game hunter what kind of strap he uses.

Wyman

 

[P.B.Walsh]

?????Wasn't this thread closed?????

 

[Dr.Rob]

In "War as I knew it" Patton (though a big fan of the M1 rifle) thought 90% of the soldiers using it did NOT need a heavy leather sling, that a cotton 'carry strap' suited them just fine.

While on the one hand it's another example of Patton micro-managing every detail, his point was that only a handful of his soldiers had the SKILL to use a sling (under pressure) as a 'sharpshooter' or 'marksman' he was not talking about scoped rifles or snipers.

That's the only 'discussion' of sling use I ever recall reading... though I suspect there are others.

 

[AStone]

Nema, where'd you hear those referred to as "american" and "african" carry? I'd never heard that before.

Taliv, I wish I could remember.

I was led to it via a THR discussion a few years ago about slings.
Someone mentioned "African carry", and I'd never heard of it,
so I googled it and found a page somewhere.

When I get some time, I'll see if I can dig something up.

 

[Expertowgunner]

First off i think this topic has gotten out of hand and what the original question was is now being turned into something else. The use of the gun sling in aiding your ability to steady your rifle has been used in competition shooting and in the military. If ive got the time to do it and i dont have a stable shooting position i use it. As for what junkman said about using sights in firefights that is actually quite true sometimes. Most veterans in my family or friends or coworkers tend to tell me that there has been multiple times in firefights they didnt use the irons on their gun due to it being pitch black, trying to suppress the enemy, trying to take cover and shoot at the same time or anything of that matter. In vietnam, trying to use your irons was sometimes not useful as engagments were often fierce and it was trying to shell out as much lead as possible and the enemy wasnt far away anyway. am i advising to not use sights no but there are certain situations where that does happen.