Recommend us a True Crime Book

[InRemorse]

I have three true crime books to recommend you all. I know this is a gun forum but I hope the moderators can see between the fingers and allow this thread to live on. Understanding how criminals think could help you tactically, if nothing else.


1. Under and alone, by William Queen.

The book is written by a federal undercover agent who infiltrated a violent MC gang in California around 2000 to gain evidence of their criminal activities. The language is straight and to the point. The book takes off quickly. Even those of you who normally don't care to read books will get sucked in and tumbled around. What makes this book something out of the ordinary is the connection the reader makes with the author. The author being a good guy, sane, rational and empathical, you feel how his skin crawls as he moves along with people who has given up and taken the easy road along the dark corners of society. Going deeper and deeper undercover, with a girlfriend who can't take the crap and leaves him, cold and unappreciative supervisors at the federal office, the undercover agent begins to long for a home and is being drawn toward the warmth only the outlaws can provide him with now. The author gradually sees the qualities in some of the gang members, feel their shattered minds, them being human too after all but with bad choices made in the past. The author paid a high price in the end. The book is disturbing and all-out real. One of the best books I ever read.


2. The last undercover, by Bob Hamer.

Again, a federal agent writes a book about his infiltration of a specific group of people, this time pedophiles. As his several years long infiltration deepens he recaptures other undercover operations he has been involved with in the past, given in much less detail but still being captivating short stories each end every one of them. The federal agent is aging and the pedophile case is his last. This book gives a better understanding for how undercover work is done, but the book lacks in emotion somewhat. The author says he on several occations felt like grabbing the pedophiles by their throats and squeeze, listening to their garbage, but his silent reflections about what he sees and feels stays on the pages in the form of words, never quite transforming into that uneasy raw gut feeling which the book above did for me. Bob Hamer relies more on his recorded tapes than the author above. It is still a highly recommended book, a must read.


3. Abandoned prayers, by Gregg Olsen.

Gregg Olsen is a journalist who gathered information about a murder of a boy child that happened in rural Kansas in the cold Christmas of 1985. For several years the murder remained a total mystery, an unknown boy child found in a ditch out in nowhere. Olsen back tracks, starts from the beginning and paints a full picture of the murderer, an Amish man later caught. This Amish man, a hard core homosexual, is something else, with real humans turning into cold bodies discarded as he moves along. The book deals with a human mind gone all bad. A slower read than the other two books it is still highly recommended.


Now, has any one else in here read a good true crime book? I'd like to know because I have nothing to read right now.

 

[Fred Fuller]

InRemorse,

S&T isn't just a gun forum. If the discussion gets pointed toward material and information that is useful from the standpoint of strategies and tactics, the thread will be just fine.

Understanding the criminal mind and criminal motivations are important. But what we all have to keep in mind is that there are more criminal motivations than there are criminals, and for that matter there may be more criminal minds as well, if you believe that schizophrenia is a real possibility. Every person is an individual, every situation is unique and there is no guarantee that even knowing all there is to know about the criminal mind and criminal motives will provide any additional armor against criminal attack.

One other thing- please note that acecdotes do not necessarily equal data. Let's try to hew as much toward real data as we can with this, and not let the thread devolve into just a pile of war stories.

lpl

 

[Perfesser]

The Evil that Men Do, by Stephen Michaud and Roy Hazelwood. (not to be confused with the fiction novel of the same name). Roy Hazelwood was a profiler with the FBI.
The cases in the book are some SCARY people....

 

[Duke of Doubt]

If you live in or are interested in Chicago and those who hail from there, or if you grew up there and in and among its suburbs like I did, read "Double Deal" by the late Michael Corbitt (long-time Police Chief of Willow Springs and international gangster) and Sam Giancana, Jr. Fascinating information about official corruption and crime over several decades (some of it continuing), how and why organized crime happens, how it persists, and why it seems randomly to strike at occasional innocent individuals -- and by implication how the same may reduce their likelihood of trouble with organized criminal organizations. Much of Corbitt's material is self-centered and a little grandiose, but enough of it is accurate, down to little details known here and there but not generally, that his stories and his speculation are considered reliable. I actually knew some of this stuff back in the day -- but so did a lot of people. That's sort of the point -- to demolish the myth of Tony Soprano and explain that an organized criminal can be a school secretary, a register of deeds, a vending machine repairman, a pharmacist, a bank clerk, or any number of other ordinary folks who are used and abused for corrupt political purposes and moneymaking by a ruthless political and criminal machine. This is our President's hometown, so it may be of more than regional interest.

 

[jbkebert]

Evil Harvest by Rod Culvin

A true crime story of murders in 1989 in Rulo NE. A group of cult members from NE Kansas and SE Nebraska pretty sick stuff. What scared me the most is two people in this book went to school with me. One whom lived about three houses down from where I grew up. The story hits home because we know some of the familes involved other than those two. Not family friends by any means but people we knew of and seen around town.

 

[James T Thomas]

The Good Book

InRemorse:

Please do not look on my reply as flippant.

The best; absolutely best "True Crime" book you can read, and all truth
is -The Bible. Yes.

If you believe you can obtain insight into why mankind does the thing that he does, all the motivation is given right there. There are so many historically accurate recounts and examples of all sorts of the most violent crimes given.

The confessions and statements in books today from such murderers and killers is from their own judgements about themselves and is clowded and obscured by the state of their spirit.
They do not know the truth, especially when it is about themselves and will not look upon it should it ever be revealed. See if you do not get this reason and that from the books you have read so far, and can only reach a vague conclusion as to "reasons."

Murder, mahem, all that activity stems from a spiritual basis in man.
Unfortunately today in the USA, EU and everywhere the University Higher Ed.
has dominated, you will be given the viewpoint of their experts; Psych.,
Criminal Rehab. That the current state of misunderstanding is not valid is testified by the NEWS media everywhere.

 

[InRemorse]

Actually, I'm not particularily interested in how stupid criminals think, I just want a good read. True crime books tend to be much better than fiction, which for most part leaves me slumped over and snoring from boredom after two pages. Today I bought NO ANGEL, by Jay Dobyns. So far so good, highly recommended. Don't tell me how it ends.

 

[Travis Bickle]

In Cold Blood and The Executioner's song are both very good. The Executioner's Song won a Pulitzer Prize.

 

[LibShooter]

Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil.

No kidding. This book by John Berendt has some of the best characters you'll find in nonfiction. And a lot of laughs for a true crime book.

 

[1Pocket]

A Dark and Bloody Ground by Darcy O'Brien

In his account of a 10-year crime spree in Eastern Kentucky, University of Tulsa English professor O'Brien ( Murder in Little Egypt ) focuses on chronic criminal Benny Hodge and his wife Sherry, who met when she was a guard in Brushy Mountain State Prison in rural Morgan County where he was incarcerated. Sherry seduced him and, after he was paroled, the two began living together, supporting themselves by ripping off small-time drug dealers. After forming a gang, their crimes escalated until they entered the home of Dr. Roscoe Acker in 1985, murdering his daughter, almost killing Dr. Acker, and seizing a cache of $1.9 million before fleeing to Florida. Tangential to their story is that of flamboyant Kentucky lawyer Lester Burns, who took on the defense for $400,000, despite the source of the money. One gang member, Donald Bartley, turned state's evidence; Benny and Roger Epperson were sentenced to death; Sherry and Carol Epperson received prison sentences, as did lawyer Burns, for knowingly accepting stolen money. This is an arresting look into the troubled psyches of these criminals and into the depressed Kentucky economy that became fertile territory for narcotics dealers, theft rings and bootleggers.

The FBI Killer by Aphrodite Jones

The raw side of the law Dirt poor, divorced, the mother of two young children, Susan Daniels Smith, 27, prayed for a handsome prince Charming, who would take her away from the squalor of her rural Kentucky community to live in romance and luxury. When a good-looking, big city FBI agent named Mark Putnam entered her life, Susan thought her prayers had been answered.

She was dead wrong.

Their relationship began when Susan agreed to be Putnam's paid informant in an investigation of her ex-husband's criminal friends, then quickly grew into an illicit affair that consumed their lives for nearly two years -- until she became pregnant and threatened to expose Putnam, ruining his career and his marriage.

On June 8, 1989, Putnam took Susan for a drive into the hills to discuss her demands of marriage. She was never heard from again.

The FBI Killer recounts the bizarre events that forced Mark Putnam to confess to brutally killing his lover, then covering up his crime for over one year. The first agent in FBI history to be convicted of homicide,

 

[AirplaneDoc]

So I hear you paint Houses,

Life story of a Mafia Hit Man

 

[conw]

Every person is an individual, every situation is unique and there is no guarantee that even knowing all there is to know about the criminal mind and criminal motives will provide any additional armor against criminal attack.

In Gavin de Becker's self-promotion in The Gift of Fear, he claims to successfully use statistics and profiling in his private business. He is dismissive of the "crime and criminals are unpredictable" mindset. If he has as many high-profile clients as he claims, I imagine he must be onto something.

 

[James T Thomas]

The average gunfight, average....

"Conwict:"

You said it, right off the bat: "Self -Promotion."

He claims!

His private $Business.

And finally, the champion tie breaker that cannot be refuted: Statistics.

He is certainly on to something.

 

[InRemorse]

Review of NO ANGEL, by Jay Dobyns and Nils Johnson-Shelton.

Jay Dobyns is an ATF agent going undercover in a criminal MC gang around 2002 in Arizona. His dream was to be a professional football player but he couldn't make it all the way. A 35 year old restless adrenaline seeker by default, with fifteen years in law enforcement, he is not the kind of guy who is able to put together a decent book. He had huge help from Nils Johnson-Shelton, who knows his way around a typewriter. The book is an afterthought to the undercover operation, possibly a way for Jay Dobyns to make extra money. I got the feeling he quit law enforcement after this particular undercover operation, being that it wore him out and made him look at the values in life in a new way.

First accepting the role of a badass gun runner, the undercover agent has a cocky personality by default, dropping acid, degenerating and sarcastic lines about the criminals he encounter, though only to the reader of course. Seeing the possibility to hook up with Hells Angels, which was not the purpose of the undercover operation in the beginning, he is looking forward to real action. Being a restless person he finds that Hells Angels isn't the action seeking group of people he had hoped for. Stuck with too much formalia and rules the group lets him down and he wishes he never had invested so much of mindwarping sacrifices on a personal level with them in the first place. Jay Dobyns says towards the end, "...I realized in that single moment that the brotherhood the Hells Angels claimed to be a part of was nothing more than a support group for missunderstood loners held together by hate and money... ...We hated our work, our wives, our girlfriends, our kids. Occationally we hated ourselves."

The book describes an undercover agent hungrily stomping in to get a piece of action and therefore lacked a bit in creating tention or a feeling of danger. The best parts of the book are when the undercover agent describes the problems of shifting between badass biker and functional husband and father during the weekends. I'm sure he made a million bucks on this book. A must read for some. Yes, there are some criminal convictions at the end.

 

[Jeff White]

Better then any book

Take a day off and go to court. Get into criminal court about 9am and sit through the arraignments and pleas. Listen to the reports as they are read into the record.

Then sit through some bench trials. Maybe take in a jury trial or hearing on a petition to revoke probation after lunch.

Go down to the circuit clerk's office and ask to read some court records of criminal proceedings. Get the information first hand before a journalist or author gets a chance to put a spin on it.

I guarantee you that you will leave at the end of the day with a different view of crime in your county.

 

[Zundfolge]

While not quite your typical "true crime" book, I really enjoyed Killing Pablo by Mark Bowden (the guy that wrote Black Hawk Down) Its about the hunt for Colombian Drug kingpin Don Pablo Escobar.

 

[conw]

JTT, read the book or don't - no big deal as far as I'm concerned. It's been recommended here several times by people I trust, so I read it. I found it a good informative read. If you don't believe people can chart or catalog violence, fine. If you don't want to read something that might change your mind, okay.

The best part is, it isn't even about gunfights. It's about avoiding gunfights. Bodyguard/VIP protection services make money and get clients for a reason, and GDB (while I honestly think the guy is a jerk) is highly successful. So if you want additional perspectives, read it. If not, stick with "you can't ever predict violence in any way, shape, or form." And be on the lookout for armed bears and angry Martians, who may be just as likely to attack you as the drug addled parolee who just moved in down the street - who knows, you can't predict violence.

end rant!

 

[Fred Fuller]

Conwict,

I didn't say that certain aspects of crime cannot be predicted- they can. I did not say that statistics don't matter- they do. I'm married to a PhD criminologist who teaches statistics at the university level, for whatever that's worth, and our conversations at home center around her work often enough that there is no way I would make such a broad statement.

Please go back and read what I said again- I said there is no guarantee. I didn't say criminal history doesn't matter and I didn't say criminal statistics don't matter. I did say that ANYONE can be had at certain times under certain circumstances, no matter who they are, how aware they are or what they know. That's all...

lpl

 

[conw]

Lee, only my first post was directed at your post. I hope I was sufficiently respectful, and I have come to realize that in these forums even though we talk past each other sometimes the info presented may benefit the other members. I take your point now, but some people literally do say statistics are useless in gunfights, etc; hence the point about angry Martians in my second post, which was exclusively directed at James T Thomas, who does seem to be more of the "statistics are useless" camp.

 

[conw]

there is no guarantee. I didn't say criminal history doesn't matter and I didn't say criminal statistics don't matter. I did say that ANYONE can be had at certain times under certain circumstances, no matter who they are, how aware they are or what they know.

That bears repeating, thanks. Sometimes a misunderstanding can be productive too.

 

[James T Thomas]

I do believe in "Profiling" -within reason.
And I do believe in statistics; as long as they are viewed as a probability and not as a sure thing. Which they are not.

And I do believe in statistical randomness, so that even with high odds, the next turn of events may or may not occur as expected.

I do believe that statistics are inductive logic; the outcome of which is never a certainty.

"Conwict": For example, do you also trust in the statistic that the average gunfight involves 2.8 shots? {I just grabbed that figure _ I don't remember the exact number it was.}

My point is that we have all seen that one here on THR.
Yet, I have a suspicion that figure is quite old. Outdated even.
I'm thinking that with the high capacity magazines and abundance of AK's in the hands of today's criminals -it may be much higher that 2.8 or "what ever."

I meant no personal attact on you or the book, so please refrain from sarcasm like armed bears and angry Martians. It implies that I'm irrational, which I try not to be.
I just like to discuss the topics here.

 

[conw]

JTT, my apologies for offending you with my comments. It was an extreme illustration that I intended to prove a point with. I don't actually think *you* believe Martians or armed bears will attack, hence you do at least acknowledge that violence is somewhat predictable. But I'm sorry I wasn't more careful - I didn't intend to be offensive.

I totally agree with your statement on the gunshot stats, etc. I don't think averages are all that useful once the bell rings, so to speak, and you're defending your life.

But I do feel like more people would be well served by looking at statistics in PREVENTING violence. Gavin de Becker consistently discusses strategies for avoidance many people would consider strange, but he backs them up with statistics that make sense. One of the best and most useful examples I can think of is the example he gives is when a man harasses a woman. It is best for the woman to determine in advance when she will get the police involved and what she will do if she is physically threatened, but he recommends appearing to ignore the harassment because it is more likely to stop if you ignore it early on. (Let's not derail the thread further by debating this, but seriously check out the book - it's pretty good even if you end up disagreeing)

Best,
Conwict

 

[InRemorse]

Review of Murder in the heartland, by M. William Phelps.

This true crime book deals with the murder of pregnant Bobbie Jo in Missouri in the Christmas of 2004. From what I understand it made national and international news due to its cruelty. It was a crime everybody wanted to hear more about at the time. On the back of the book one statement reads "Phelps is a first-rate investigator." Another reads "Get ready for some sleepless nights." The book felt like a good choice in the book store.

The author does an utterly poor job with the material gathered. The murderer and the people she surrounds herself with, plus the people in the small Kansas town where she lives, all seem so dumb struck and one dimentional. A third into the book the murder has been comitted, the detective work has been done, and the murderer has been caught. I'm already half asleep. Then the author tries to paint a picture to why the murderer is so screwed up, telling about her earlier life. Why didn't the author begin with that, painting a train wreck in the coming, trying to make the best of his useless writing style? It never becomes appearant who is more dumd struck and emotionally numb, the author or the murderer. Within the first third of the book the time line is chopped up, and frustratingly so. Reading, gradually I feel like I don't care how it sorts out. All characters are walking sleeping pills, tumbled around in the dull mind of the author, who is probably trying to push all his research material in, in no special order, with no intention of understanding how this thing could have happened. There is a lot of rehashing of stated facts, whenever the author feels like it. 60% into the book the trial begins to take shape but at this point I'm no longer interested. I'm rehashed to sleep. The murderer can walk free for all I care. For now I'm putting this book aside to be exchanged for something else at the local used book store. This author managed to make a murder of a pregnant woman and the cutting out of her unborn baby while the woman is still alive into a 440 page sleeping pill. I just don't care.

 

[workingdog]

Back to the OP: Thanks for the recommendation on "Under and Alone." I'm heading to the library this afternoon, and I think I'll check it out

 

[conw]

I appreciate this thread too. I will bookmark it and get some books when I get some free time. I read and appreciated In Cold Blood and the one by Roy Whatsisface, the fbi profiler.