needmorecowbell
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Another great one is an IWI Masada but I went PSA Dagger because Glock guy and compatible mags
Started my CCW journey with CT lasers on Shields. Green and red. No explicit action needed on those. They are always live, you just have to grip the gun for the beam to activate. So pretty handy. The nice thing about them is you don't have to be looking down the slide to place shots accurately. The not so good about them things are mentioned above, plus in any kind of smoky room, they draw a line right to you.For my 2¢ you are correct. However, from my practice with one, there are two issues to deal with. One is needing a switch, either on/off or momentary contact--both of which will need an explicit action (versus shake-awake RDS).
The other issue is that the laser really illustrates ever wobble, bobble, and twitch in your grip. That latter can be very distracting, as it's reflex to "chase" the dot.
The laser also winds up very dependent on lighting, distance, and reflectivity of the target.
The ways to install a laser give me pause, too. Pretty much, only the CrimsonTrace and "guiderod" laser do not change the profile or require extraordinary changes to holsters. I've used both, none are presently installed.
You are fortunate not to have had your optic fail. But just as important BUIS allow one to find the dot quicker. A new circle dot development from holosun may make the sight faster to use without co-witness BUIS.I paid extra to get one milled and suppressor sights installed so I could use the backup irons. That was years ago when I was just transitioning to red dots. On balance not worth it IMHO. Irons and red dots need to be used differently -- with irons the focus needs to be on the front sight, but with a red dot your vision needs to focus on the target so having "co-witness" is counter to using the dot effectively.
I'll accept the argument that its nice to have if the batteries or sight has gone dead, but with quality red dots, I find having backup irons to really only be useful when adjusting optics like the SIG Romeo Zero which lack "clicks".
You are fortunate not to have had your optic fail. But just as important BUIS allow one to find the dot quicker. A new circle dot development from holosun may make the sight faster to use without co-witness BUIS.
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It looks like crap
it gets in the way
can't put total trust into the system
what happened to iron sights and effort into using them?
And finally. the use of handguns is all within 15 yards or less. Good Grief. You aren't hunting with a handgun and redsight. You are defending yourself and killing a person up front.
Nothing happened to them. If your eyesight is good enough to use iron sights and that's your preferred sight, good for you! I know I used to be that way. But, like most, my eyesight has gotten worse as I aged. No more 20-20. With iron sights, I can see the target well but the sights are a fuzzy mess. Not very confidence inspiring, and not very accurate. Red dot's put the fun back into shooting for me. Now I can be just as accurate as I ever was.what happened to iron sights and effort into using them?
Accuracy matters. You are responsible for every round you put down range. Start spraying and praying with fuzzy sights and/or fuzzy targets, you could end up in a lot of trouble.And finally. the use of handguns is all within 15 yards or less. Good Grief. You aren't hunting with a handgun and redsight. You are defending yourself and killing a person up front.
I don't care for them. The dot is usually not visible unless the pistol is perfectly aligned- great for targets but may not be doable in a real fight
There something else to consider and that is many self defense scenarios occur under poor lighting conditions. Then it is pointing the gun without clear visibility of the iron sights.I don't care for them. The dot is usually not visible unless the pistol is perfectly aligned- great for targets but may not be doable in a real fight- sometimes you just need to work with the sight picture you can get- you have the rest of your life to make this happen. Also, not wild about relying on batteries and electrical circuits. For a carry gun they make even less sense to me because adding bulk to such a handgun makes it harder to conceal. But to each his own.
Have Sig 365XL-9-BXr3-RXZ w/ Remo 0 and Sig 320XF-BXR3-RXP w/ Remo 1+. Both of these co-witness the fixed night sights. Both of these seem to very reliable have put thousands of rounds thru each of them and have no issues.I am thinking of getting a pistol with a red-dot for home defense and sometimes carry. I'm wanting one that with a red-dot mounted you can still co-witness with iron sight. So far all I found were the Ruger max 9 and the Hell Cat. I want a pistol a little bit bigger then these two as i have an Sig p365 for my EDC. Was thinking of a compact p320 but as far as I can tell when you mount a red.dot you lose your rear sight. Anyone knows any pistols that come already milled for a red dot that you don't lose the rear sight when you mount one other then the two I named? Thank you,
Yes, you are correct in your stated opinion. However, we all (hopefully) continue to get older and with age comes limitations on eye sight (and other issues). The red dot (or green dot) optics on a handgun will increase you accuracy (for just about everyone) and most claim it has also made them more accurate when using iron sights. They certainly also reduce, for me the time required for the first shot/draw. They are also likely to allow you to have better view of your self defense target and other threats that might also be present. Lets you look where the threat is and focus on that rather than "front sight". I have both a Sig P320 and SigP365XL with optics, both carry just fine with holster that is fitted for them. Have found no cases where the red dot has "got in the way". Being a long time Glock fanboy, just left my Glock 19X with gunsmith to mill the slide for Red Dot and expect it to return to the most liked EDC pistol. "You are defending yourself and killing a person up front." - yes but I would hope that you are also moving toward cover at the same time and most bad guys will not stand still to allow you time to aim.It seems like it has got to the point where I just have to respond to this red dot sighting system on handguns. It looks like crap, it gets in the way, can't put total trust into the system, what happened to iron sights and effort into using them? And finally. the use of handguns is all within 15 yards or less. Good Grief. You aren't hunting with a handgun and redsight. You are defending yourself and killing a person up front.
Just as you practiced with your "iron" sights it does take some practice with the red/green dot optic on a handgun. After just a little practice you will find that the red dot is easier (and faster) to line up for the first shot than your iron sights.I don't care for them. The dot is usually not visible unless the pistol is perfectly aligned- great for targets but may not be doable in a real fight- sometimes you just need to work with the sight picture you can get- you have the rest of your life to make this happen. Also, not wild about relying on batteries and electrical circuits. For a carry gun they make even less sense to me because adding bulk to such a handgun makes it harder to conceal. But to each his own.
Agreed. Practice, practice, practice. If you don't do that with either type of sight, you're not going to be very good at it.Just as you practiced with your "iron" sights it does take some practice with the red/green dot optic on a handgun. After just a little practice you will find that the red dot is easier (and faster) to line up for the first shot than your iron sights.
Not always. Depends on the gun. For example, my P320 X5 came optic ready. But the plate you remove from the slide to mount a red dot has the rear sight mounted to it. But that's a target gun for me, not a carry gun. So I'm okay with it.Also remember your "iron sights" are still there and visible.
I did not have that issue in that my P320 was purchased with the optic already present. The rear sight is behind the optic and is clearly functional. Adding an optic in most cases also requires replacement of the iron sights that are "optic ready".Agreed. Practice, practice, practice. If you don't do that with either type of sight, you're not going to be very good at it.
Not always. Depends on the gun. For example, my P320 X5 came optic ready. But the plate you remove from the slide to mount a red dot has the rear sight mounted to it. But that's a target gun for me, not a carry gun. So I'm okay with it.
Yep, that's why I said it depends on the gun. I have a couple of P320's that came with red dots from the factory and suppressor height sights also.I did not have that issue in that my P320 was purchased with the optic already present. The rear sight is behind the optic and is clearly functional. Adding an optic in most cases also requires replacement of the iron sights that are "optic ready".
I dont think they're ready for prime time either. In my testing, iron sights are still a touch better. Test again in the snow, rain, and extreme sunny conditions. Plain iron sighted pistols still work better for me.
-non reciprocating sights and optic
-thinner lower optic, no control board, just a chip
-QR release to get that junk off in adverse weather. I suppose just carrying a standard pistol on rainy days makes more sense.
-flush with slide top, flip up irons
-dot cant leave window during recoil. Light recoil
The Largo Arms Alien is a big leap forward. Try it, or a USPSA open class pistol, then compare to a reciprocating optic, carry optic type pistol.