Relics of War

DustyGmt

DustyGmt

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Just thought maybe it would be interesting to hear what some guys, with some having first hand knowledge and experience, believe me it is not my intention to offend or stir up a bad subject with anybody because war is a very sensitive topic for those who've been through it, but I was just thinking about those who may have had a grandpa or uncle who brought their service arm back with em, or perhaps a trophy gun captured from an enemy, etc.... I've heard of people finding machine guns in grandads attic or other firearms brought back from war, the thread isn't strictly about war trophies, those are interesting stories, for those willing to tell them.

I'm sure it is well documented in some publications, but I wonder, how many people have recovered war artifacts out of the English channel. I would guess that all sorts of historians and amateur/professional metal detectors have been all over the coastlines in Northern France, along with divers, that have recovered many instruments of battle (firearms especially), and many others who have invested their lives into recovering things from the battle of Gettysburg, etc....

I imagine all kinds of artifacts and relics of war have been found all over these regions where the most epic battles took place that have shaped society both nationally and globally.

Any experts, collectors or history buffs that could share anything recovered or collected from any of the major wars fought by the U.S.? I would specifically imagine @tark would have a boatload of info on the subject, having worked at the Rock Island Museum...... No pressure to participate, but Tark just comes to mind....

American Revolution (1775-1783)
War of 1812 (1812-1815)
Indian Wars (approx. 1817-1898)
Mexican War (1846-1848)
Civil War (1861-1865)
Spanish-American War (1898-1902)
World War I (1917-1918)
World War II (1941 –1945)
Korean War, Vietnam War, Gulf War, Iraq, Afghanistan,.etc........
 
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I had a professor in college who was a wealth of knowledge. He was a very kind and generous man who could seriously tell a story. County historian, owner and caretaker of multiple historic buildings and interesting items. He was the kind of guy made a big deal over things gifted to him, whether they were valuable or not, he didn’t care about the monetary side at all, he was a sucker for the story. He once read us a letter from a local resident who described in detail how the local girls would swoon over the union officers and were quite skilled at leaving them with a lot less money than they started off with. The letter gave very clear description of where the camp was usually located. So me and a couple buddies borrowed some metal detectors and went there right after the combines got out of the soybeans. We dug up a few minnieballs and a single French coin. We ran them through my ammo tumbler and then encased them in a clear polyurethane and presented him his gift with an interesting letter from a ticked off union sympathizing hooker that got duped by a heavy coin purse.

Sadly the gentleman is slowly but surely succumbing to age. He is still around, but he is not quite the man he once was. He still gets a glimmer in his eyes though when I see him and get him fired up about some of the local stuff. He’s a good friend of several family members, I need to take him an apple fritter.
 
I was in Afghanistan. There was a lot a lot of rules and regulations to follow in order to bring back war trophies. First above all, personal war trophies were expressly forbidden. If you killed an enemy and wanted to take home his gold plated AK, you didn't have an ice cube's chance of getting it home. But...if you wanted that same AK to hang on the wall at your battalion or brigade headquarters back in the states, it was slightly more possible. If you sat down and did the paperwork. And it was a lot.

Purchased, antique firearms were allowed to be brought back. Again, with boatloads of paperwork. The firearm HAD to be at least 100 years old in order to be declared an antique, and able to be cleared, inventoried, and shipped back. At Bagram Airfield, a local made a killing off US troops because he had an expansive table of Martini-Henry rifles for sale. Some as low as just $15 when I was there. I know quite a few people who bought those rifles, went through the paperwork to import them back to the states, sometimes cleaned them up, and sold them for a massive profit. Very few kept them.

Personally, I tried bringing back a war trophy firearm. But it was confiscated and never got to me. The days when it was as easy as stuffing a Luger in a duffel bag or parcel are long gone.
 
Both my grandfathers were in the US Army in the Pacific theatre in WW2. One of them had aquired an extensive collection of Japanese officers swords, but he traded them post VJ Day to a Navy flying boat crew to get him home a bit quicker as he was allowed to return by any available transport and there was a huge backlog.
Neither one of them was gun owner before or after the war. I do have some photos and a few native-made trinkets from Okinawa and the Phillipines, however.
 
I've ended up with a civil war era Springfield musket that was found in the wall of a house being demoed several years ago. Was wrapped in oil paper and is in good condition. Evidently much of the state was under martial law for years after the war and former confederates found with a gun would be punished so weapons were hidden. Still trying to find info on the family and who might have lived there during the war.
 
My father grew up with a tripoded MG in his back shed, that apparently was brought into the family by my grandfather in WWI. I was never able to clarify whether it was a Browning, Maxim, or Vickers, but heard that it was donated to a WWII scrap drive. Oh well. :(
 
Remington1911 said:
It depends on the person, it does different things to different people.
Click to expand...
That is the truth. One of my grandfathers was a cook during WW2 and would talk your ear off about the war all day long. His brother landed at Omaha Beach on D-Day and I only ever heard him mention it the one time ever to anyone.

My mother had 2 brothers in Vietnam. One of them also happened to be sent in to discover and cleanup the Jim Jones Massacre. The stories he told me about that and Vietnam, and the pictures he showed me, would curdle your stomach.

The other uncle was a medic for 4 years in Vietnam from 1965 to 1969 and was awarded 4 Silver Stars, 2 Bronze Stars and innumerable other medals and survived two helicopter crashes. He retired as a Command Sgt Major. I have never heard him tell any stories at all about Vietnam to anyone except my Stepfather who was there at some of the same time. A few years ago he and his wife were staying at a resort with me and my parents over the Christmas holidays. My Stepfather invited him to go deer hunting with us and we showed him an extra rifle we had with us (an M16A4) and he began visibly shaking, declined and just walked outside.

My wife's cousin was in the Gulf War and was in a tent that was hit by a missile killing several people in his platoon. For the first ten years I was married to my wife, I never saw him set foot inside a building, even for the marriage of his sister. He just lurked in the doorway. He lived on the beaches around Freeport, Texas, all that time. Would not have doors on his pickup. To this day I don't know that he is any better because he dropped off the grid several years ago. I had a completely different experience serving at the same time, so yes I would agree it really does depend on the person and what they experienced. Sorry if this post was too long.
 
Scrapiron45 said:
I've ended up with a civil war era Springfield musket that was found in the wall of a house being demoed several years ago. Was wrapped in oil paper and is in good condition. Evidently much of the state was under martial law for years after the war and former confederates found with a gun would be punished so weapons were hidden. Still trying to find info on the family and who might have lived there during the war.
Click to expand...

Common all over eastern europe, guns in walls. Along with ammo.
 
citizenconn said:
That is the truth. One of my grandfathers was a cook during WW2 and would talk your ear off about the war all day long. His brother landed at Omaha Beach on D-Day and I only ever heard him mention it the one time ever to anyone.

My mother had 2 brothers in Vietnam. One of them also happened to be sent in to discover and cleanup the Jim Jones Massacre. The stories he told me about that and Vietnam, and the pictures he showed me, would curdle your stomach.

The other uncle was a medic for 4 years in Vietnam from 1965 to 1969 and was awarded 4 Silver Stars, 2 Bronze Stars and innumerable other medals and survived two helicopter crashes. He retired as a Command Sgt Major. I have never heard him tell any stories at all about Vietnam to anyone except my Stepfather who was there at some of the same time. A few years ago he and his wife were staying at a resort with me and my parents over the Christmas holidays. My Stepfather invited him to go deer hunting with us and we showed him an extra rifle we had with us (an M16A4) and he began visibly shaking, declined and just walked outside.

My wife's cousin was in the Gulf War and was in a tent that was hit by a missile killing several people in his platoon. For the first ten years I was married to my wife, I never saw him set foot inside a building, even for the marriage of his sister. He just lurked in the doorway. He lived on the beaches around Freeport, Texas, all that time. Would not have doors on his pickup. To this day I don't know that he is any better because he dropped off the grid several years ago. I had a completely different experience serving at the same time, so yes I would agree it really does depend on the person and what they experienced. Sorry if this post was too long.
Click to expand...

Good post,

My experience is confined to one mortar round fired on the base. One was enough.

My uncle was a Cpt in the Green Berets in vietnam in 63-64. He never said much about it but he did have his demons, and was not thrilled at some of my decisions. He had some photos and slides, 4 foot lockers full of stuff. But never talked about what he did there.

One of these days I will look him up.
 
I have a pistol from my grandfather.

The story behind it...
There was a canvas bag handing in his barn next to his reloading bench when I spent many hours with yim learning the hobby. For years, that bag hung there. One day, in my late teens, I looked in the bag and found a Spanish Ruby pistol (didn't know what it was at the time)..and kept it sitting on the bench. My granddad came in, saw it, and very very angrily told me to put it back..and NEVER touch it again..which if coarse, I did. He refused to answer any questions about it.

Years and years later, when it came time to sell his farm and we were packing things up to go to auction, that bag still hung there..until, as one of the last things left..he told me to go get the bag, bring it into his den, and he told me the story behind it.

It's was late April 1945..he was in Germany, a day after getting sent back to the lines after being wounded, his squad was going after a die hard unit of Germans in a machine gun nest. They moved in, and most of the Germans ran, all but one. He stood his ground and fired that pistol at my grandfather..and missed. Grandad did what he had to do..shot him, and when he checked him out, he found his paycard/ ID. It was only a 16 year old kid. Grandad was haunted by this the rest of his life.

He took that pistol, and bag off the dead kid, stuffed it in his pack..brought it home, and it never got out for over 40 years till I did that day when I was a kid.

He gave me the pistol..told me to do what I wanted with it...

I have it still, and that bag.
I will pass it on to my kid, along with the story. I'm not sure what the proper thing is to do with it...if there even is a proper thing.

War is a terrible thing. If nothing else, that pistols story is an example of why that is.
 
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I left Kuwait at the first of May 1991. Now some of they units that left earlier might have been able to smuggle some things out but we definitely could NOT. I was an engineer at the time and my unit was one of many that were clearing bunkers and destroying stock piles of weapons and ammo found in those bunkers. Military Customs searched my unit like we were convicts. It was so bad that we buried a lot of field gear in conex's and our CO wrote it all off as field losses.

I found plenty of crates full of brand new FEG Hi Power pistols along with the usual crates of brand new AK rifles. We had to destroy every last one and we were then searched after destroying each bunker complex. We couldn't even keep so much as a bayonet and a lot of camera film was confiscated on us too.

Talking about how things effect people. I still occasionally catch myself trying to don my pro mask and MOPP gear when the storm sirens go off. And I still don't watch much fireworks to this day. I spent last night in my office with music turn up to drown out the sounds. Ans the sight or smell of a burned car sets me off too. Having to travel the Highway of Death back into Kuwait still bothers me.

One of my great uncles serve in the Navy in the Pacific during WWII and was on a ship that got torpedoed. He was in the water for about a week before getting rescued. He never said what ship but if I had to guess I would say the USS Indianapolis. He never said a word about any of that until after I got out of the Army. His wife, kids and the rest of the family never heard him speak a word about his time during WWII. They were in utter shock when he finally opened up to me.

I had a lot of great uncles in the Navy and Army during WWII in all theaters. Some did bring back pistols and other stuff. My Uncle served in Vietnam and he was not able to bring anything back either. My uncle still doesn't say much about his time in Vietnam.
 
Dad served as a Forward Observer in Korea (and, later, as a sniper by default as the unit got farther inland and the weather closed in.)
He brought nothing back but a BCD and a bad attitude.

I've picked up and preserved a lot of other people's war relics over the years.
I've rarely picked up the memories that went with them.
Maybe that's for the best, if the memories were like my Dad's... .
 
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12Bravo20 said:
I left Kuwait at the first of May 1991. Now some of they units that left earlier might have been able to smuggle some things out but we definitely could NOT. I was an engineer at the time and my unit was one of many that were clearing bunkers and destroying stock piles of weapons and ammo found in those bunkers. Military Customs searched my unit like we were convicts. It was so bad that we buried a lot of field gear in conex's and our CO wrote it all off as field losses.

I found plenty of crates full of brand new FEG Hi Power pistols along with the usual crates of brand new AK rifles. We had to destroy every last one and we were then searched after destroying each bunker complex. We couldn't even keep so much as a bayonet and a lot of camera film was confiscated on us too.

Talking about how things effect people. I still occasionally catch myself trying to don my pro mask and MOPP gear when the storm sirens go off. And I still don't watch much fireworks to this day. I spent last night in my office with music turn up to drown out the sounds. Ans the sight or smell of a burned car sets me off too. Having to travel the Highway of Death back into Kuwait still bothers me.

One of my great uncles serve in the Navy in the Pacific during WWII and was on a ship that got torpedoed. He was in the water for about a week before getting rescued. He never said what ship but if I had to guess I would say the USS Indianapolis. He never said a word about any of that until after I got out of the Army. His wife, kids and the rest of the family never heard him speak a word about his time during WWII. They were in utter shock when he finally opened up to me.

I had a lot of great uncles in the Navy and Army during WWII in all theaters. Some did bring back pistols and other stuff. My Uncle served in Vietnam and he was not able to bring anything back either. My uncle still doesn't say much about his time in Vietnam.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your service and for you and others who served and carry tremendous burdens. I come from a military family on my dad's side. My great grandfather and grandfather got the worst of it in terms of residual behavioral/sensory affectations.... add alzheimers to that and it's nightmarish. I went to join the Marines and my recruiter said I was a lil too candid in my answers to certain questions about partying and stuff and was supposed to come back with different answers after a few months but I was too busy getting into trouble. Greatest regret of my life.

But anyways, thanks for all you who served. It really disgusts me how much we cater to and all the money that goes into the deadbeats on sofa security and we treat our vets like trash. It's interesting that even back in the early 90's customs were right on top of you guys and couldn't bring back any mementos.....

Also, @12Bravo20 my dad has the tattoo of your avatar, he was an engineer in the Army same time as you. 1984-1990.
 
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I don't have any war stories to tell, having been in an in country R&R center ( Qui Nhon ) during my year in Vietnam. But I have held in my hands some priceless relics of history. General John Buford's cavalry saber, (Gettysburg ) M-1 Garand Model Shop rifle serial #2 and a sharps rifle used by the Indians at the Little Bighorn. And of course there is the 1903 Springfield R.I.A. manufacture serial #1. That one is in it's original rod bayonet configuration. These four are on display at the Rock Island Museum, which has re-opened after three years of Covid shutdown and renovation. Sadly, only about 15 of the 1225 guns that were on display, remain.
 
Megawatt maker said:
I have a pistol from my grandfather.

The story behind it...
There was a canvas bag handing in his barn next to his reloading bench when I spent many hours with yim learning the hobby. For years, that bag hung there. One day, in my late teens, I looked in the bag and found a Spanish Ruby pistol (didn't know what it was at the time)..and kept it sitting on the bench. My granddad came in, saw it, and very very angrily told me to put it back..and NEVER touch it again..which if coarse, I did. He refused to answer any questions about it.

Years and years later, when it came time to sell his farm and we were packing things up to go to auction, that bag still hung there..until, as one of the last things left..he told me to go get the bag, bring it into his den, and he told me the story behind it.

It's was late April 1945..he was in Germany, a day after getting sent back to the lines after being wounded, his squad was going after a die hard unit of Germans in a machine gun nest. They moved in, and most of the Germans ran, all but one. He stood his ground and fired that pistol at my grandfather..and missed. Grandad did what he had to do..shot him, and when he checked him out, he found his paycard/ ID. It was only a 16 year old kid. Grandad was haunted by this the rest of his life.

He took that pistol, and bag off the dead kid, stuffed it in his pack..brought it home, and it never got out for over 40 years till I did that day when I was a kid.

He gave me the pistol..told me to do what I wanted with it...

I have it still, and that bag.
I will pass it on to my kid, along with the story. I'm not sure what the proper thing is to do with it...if there even is a proper thing.

War is a terrible thing. If nothing else, that pistols story is an example of why that is.
Click to expand...
Yikes....

Of course, the odds are pretty good that that Ruby was already a trophy when your Grandfather obtained it. If it has Waffenampts, it was either part of a surplus shipment from Franco to his German Allies or part of a large lot surrendered by the French Army. If not Nazi marked, it was likely taken off a French Officer in either of the World Wars and gifted to the young German who fired at him since he would have been too young to participate in the invasion of France four years earlier.
My Dad has a very clean Gabilondo-made Ruby (there were several manufacturers) that doesn't appear to have seen much hard use, but
I have several wartime guns that could tell harrowing stories if they could talk, including a Type 99 Arisaka that looks like it took a direct hit from an artillery shell and was patched back together with an unravelled tin cup.
20230131_204626.jpg
20230419_221128.jpg
The SMLE is from 1911 and almost certainly saw action in the trenches of WW1. After the the first war, it was shipped to New Zealand where it was converted to a .22 trainer.
 
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My boss had an Arisaka. And he was a battleship sailor.

My CAS scattergun is a Verney Carron brought back by a coworker who only got to Europe in time for the Occupation. A French gun likely confiscated by Germans and in turn by Americans.
 
My uncle just inherited our great uncle Todd's Colt 1911 .45. It doesn't look like a normal Colt though, it has some enhanced checkered walnut grips, it's nickel plated, says U.S. Property, Colt Mnfg and a small pony stamped in the left rear portion of the slide. I have a pic of it somewhere. My uncle, the one who inherited it asked me to take it apart and clean it up, it was my pleasure. My great uncle Todd was an MP in Vietnam. He was a pretty tough guy, not the kind of guy you wanted to cheat at cards or you might get shot or the beat down of a lifetime. Uncle Todd was a complicated man, very capable of violence but also very sweet to kids. When I was getting in trouble with the law as a youngster, he always seemed to be withholding a lil grin or if he heard about a particular someone ending up with kicked in door, busted lip or black eye, I knew he thought well of it....(if in his eyes, it was warranted)
 
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Lots of GIs had their pilfered or souvenir pistols plated for show. How were they to know that they would be worth thousands of bucks a hundred years later if left as issued?

I had a highschool teacher, just too young for WWI, who offered a service to returning Doughboys. For $3 payable in silver dollars, he would silver plate your pistol or dagger. And spend the $3.00 in coins just a little bit lighter.
 
NIGHTLORD40K said:
Yikes....

Of course, the odds are pretty good that that Ruby was already a trophy when your Grandfather obtained it. If it has Waffenampts, it was either part of a surplus shipment from Franco to his German Allies or part of a large lot surrendered by the French Army. If not Nazi marked, it was likely taken off a French Officer in either of the World Wars and gifted to the young German who fired at him since he would have been too young to participate in the invasion of France four years earlier.
My Dad has a very clean Gabilondo-made Ruby (there were several manufacturers) that doesn't appear to have seen much hard use, but
I have several wartime guns that could tell harrowing stories if they could talk, including a Type 99 Arisaka that looks like it took a direct hit from an artillery shell and was patched back together with an unravelled tin cup.
View attachment 1160456
View attachment 1160457
The SMLE is from 1911 and almost certainly saw action in the trenches of WW1. After the the first war, it was shipped to New Zealand where it was converted to a .22 trainer.
Click to expand...
No waffenampts on it. There is no doubt it was never issued by the Germans. My granddad had no idea where the kid would have gotten it..we didn't even talk about anything like that. It's probably like you said, the Germans gathered it up in France, or brought in from Spain, and at that point in the war, where pretty much handing out anything that went boom to anyone who could carry it.

The pistol is very beat up..rusty from hanging in a barn for 50+years..it's also very cheaply made..it's not a top of the line Ruby.
 
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