Reloading ammo for machine guns

[Machine Shop Dude]

NFA item Cobray swd m11 9mm

How do you reload on a dillon 650 to ensure absolute function and not blow up the machine gun due to a squib load. Tips, tricks, gagets, personal experiences are appreciated.

 

[FROGO207]

I am not a Dillon guy but they have a powder alarm that works well. BUT!!! there is no subsitute for putting YOUR EYEBALL on the propellant in each case as it runs through the machine. Personally I would invest in a good camera and adequate lighting to be able to watch that EVERY round has a good charge before seating a bullet.

ETA: Don't ever rely on weighing a round to tell that. The stacking variables will be greater than the powder charge, especially in a small case like 9MM. You should be just as concerned with an overcharge as that could blow the gun up as well.

 

[243winxb]

Nothing beats looking into the case before seating a bullet to check the powder level.

A bulky powder that will over flow the case when double charged may be useful.

Loading for the 5.56, M16A1 was not an issue using 4198 on a old/slow Dillon RL-450.

 

[H&R Glock]

Don't machine guns stop shooting when a squib is encountered? Specially gas operated guns.

 

[FROGO207]

That depends on the power in the round. If it pushes the bullet an inch down the barrel and it stops but there is enough energy to cycle the bolt then boom. It would be a different matter if you could just buy a replacment when things self destruct.

 

[TonyAngel]

NFA item Cobray swd m11 9mm

How do you reload on a dillon 650 to ensure absolute function and not blow up the machine gun due to a squib load. Tips, tricks, gagets, personal experiences are appreciated.

That depends on how you have your 650 setup. Do you have the power measure alarm that alerts you when you're low on powder? That's the only problem that I can see happening on a 650. Running out of power in the measure and not realizing it. Double dumping with a 650 is pretty hard to do. My only advise is that if you have to stop the reloading process for any reason, bullet didn't seat right, primer didn't prime right...and you have to back up the process, just clear all stations and start over with sizing/priming a case with all other stations empty. You won't have to worry about a double dump if you do this every time.

 

[TonyAngel]

Oh, and BTW, are you planning on shooting these reloads and picking up the brass to reload it? I don't have a whole lot of experience with fully automatics, but I've shot Ingrams which I believe are similar to the Cobray and the Ingrams ate up the brass. With the price of 9mm these days if you order in bulk, you might be better off just buying it. Browning 124gr in the 150 packs is only like $26 at Academy. With the cost of jacketed/coated bullets and the cost of brass, it might not be worth your while. I know that I don't reload 9mm any longer. .357 and .45acp only for pistols.

 

[DanK3Pos]

I hear what everyone is saying about eyeballing the load, but what you really need is the Dillon Powder check (https://www.dillonprecision.com/powder-check_8_120_23805.html). It sounds off if the powder in the case is too high or too low.

 

[edwardware]

How do you reload on a dillon 650 to ensure absolute function and not blow up the machine gun due to a squib load.

Precisely the same way you load for anything else. I would not suggest cutting your reloading teeth making ammo for your MG, not because it's different, but because the consequences of your inexperience could be higher.

I would also strongly advise against starting reloading on a progressive. The Dillon's the Blue Standard for sure, but there's too much you don't know to look for going on all at once.

Start one-at-a-time (even if it's on the Dillon), and learn what you don't know, first.

 

[Charlie98]

A bulky powder that will over flow the case when double charged may be useful.

With the price of 9mm these days if you order in bulk, you might be better off just buying it.

Those would be my suggestions. It really depends on what kind of quantities you are talking about, and who is shooting it. If it's just you on an odd weekend, sure... load 'em up, but if it's an every weekend event with a bunch of other people shooting it... factory is the Answer.

Don't machine guns stop shooting when a squib is encountered? Specially gas operated guns.

I'm not familiar with the Cobray... is it blowback? In that case, it would just keep on shooting until a cartridge couldn't chamber, or the bore clears (in whatever manner it might be...)

 

[Texas10mm]

Station 1 - Resize/deprime
Station 2 - Powder drop
Station 3 - RCBS Lock-Out die
Station 4 - Bullet seating
Station 5 - Crimp

The Lock-Out die will stop the press if there's no powder in the case. That eliminates squibs. It will also stop the press on a double charge.

Learning on a progressive press isn't a problem. If you can walk and chew bubble gum at the same time. It's like telling people to learn to drive a model T before they drive a Ram 2500.

As far as gadget on the 650 I've got a ton of them. Most of them just add convenience to the press. Are you going to load lead or plated bullets? Then a custom powder funnel is a must. I also like the Ez-Disconnect powder measure mod. Primer cut-off switch. Bearing upgrade for the shell plate. Spent primer upgrade. Ski ramp upgrade for missed primers.

That get's ya started.

 

[ATLDave]

How do you reload on a dillon 650 to ensure absolute function and not blow up the machine gun due to a squib load.

You do it correctly, and with the same zero-tolerance-for-squibs approach that you would use for rounds intended for any other gun.

If you want maximum assurance, you do everything you can to make sure the process is correct, and then you QA 100% of your rounds. For a QA weight check to be meaningful, though, you need components whose stacked weight tolerances are small enough to detect significant powder variations. That's not easily done with 9mm, but, at a minimum, requires matching, batched brass (all same headstamp from the same era of manufacture), and jacketed or plated bullets (coated and/or lubed bullets have too much weight variation from the coating/lube weight), and a powder that gives pretty good casefill.

 

[jmorris]

Safe load data for them is pretty much the same as anything else. My regular pistol loads run in SMG's with the exception of the MP5 SD but that is because its ported barrel bleeds off too much pressure and I generally use fast powders for 9mm as the suppress the best.

In any case, on a 650 it looks something like this, I check to make sure the powder check and low primer alerts are functioning before starting.



The powder check probes inside the case and will sound if the charge is low or high.

The way I set mine up they will actually detect stepped cases because of the smaller internal volume.

 

[GE-Mini-Gun]

Been doing it for years with mine…115gr bullet (cheapest I can find), powder charge somewhere in the middle to mid-upper range and go to town. Last March (2019) I loaded 3k in just under 3 hrs; I also have an M10/45 and use the 650 for that also…same thing, cheapest bullet I can find in the 185 to 230gr range, powder charge same as 9mm mid to mid-upper range. I’ve never heard of a double charge in a 650 as it auto-indexes, guess it could happen, but never heard of it. If you shoot it enough you will notice a shot wasn’t “right”…pull mag and take a look.

 

[GarrettJ]

The powder check probes inside the case and will sound if the charge is low or high.

The way I set mine up they will actually detect stepped cases because of the smaller internal volume.

Yep, stepped cases seem to be the biggest issue for an open bolt subgun. When the ring breaks off in a semi-auto, it will just stop the gun. With an OB gun, the round will still fire, with the rear of the case unsupported. It’s kind of exciting when you’re not expecting it.


(No, the primer is not unfired. It’s an optical illusion. The primer is actually gone, and it’s an empty primer pocket).

In this instance, there was no damage to the Uzi or to the shooter. The bullet from the second round was lodged in the barrel and had to be knocked out with a brass rod.

I now have an extra step when reloading where I inspect my 9mm brass prior to loading, looking for stepped cases. I use an empty 9mm tray and scoop up a bunch of cases. Shake them a bit and most fall headstamp-first into the tray. This makes it easy to scan through looking for the shelf. It’s also easy to pick out 9x17 or 9mm Mak.

The stepped cases seem to have gone out of use in the last couple years. The last 3000 I went through found none.

Freedom Munitions has gone to a case with an internal taper, rather than a hard step. This seems to work much better, as I have not had the problem with these cases splitting.

But as noted, both the stepped cases and those with the internal taper will set off the Dillon powder sensor.

 

[Texas10mm]

Yep, stepped cases seem to be the biggest issue for an open bolt subgun. When the ring breaks off in a semi-auto, it will just stop the gun. With an OB gun, the round will still fire, with the rear of the case unsupported. It’s kind of exciting when you’re not expecting it.

View attachment 912338
(No, the primer is not unfired. It’s an optical illusion. The primer is actually gone, and it’s an empty primer pocket).

In this instance, there was no damage to the Uzi or to the shooter. The bullet from the second round was lodged in the barrel and had to be knocked out with a brass rod.

I now have an extra step when reloading where I inspect my 9mm brass prior to loading, looking for stepped cases. I use an empty 9mm tray and scoop up a bunch of cases. Shake them a bit and most fall headstamp-first into the tray. This makes it easy to scan through looking for the shelf. It’s also easy to pick out 9x17 or 9mm Mak.

The stepped cases seem to have gone out of use in the last couple years. The last 3000 I went through found none.

Freedom Munitions has gone to a case with an internal taper, rather than a hard step. This seems to work much better, as I have not had the problem with these cases splitting.

But as noted, both the stepped cases and those with the internal taper will set off the Dillon powder sensor.

That's the nice thing about the RCBS Lock-Out die. If you set it up correctly those stepped cases will stop the press. I've got better things to do than sitting around eyeballing 9mm brass all day.

 

[Bugster]

I still always look inside the case before I place a bullet for seating. All these years I haven't double charged a case, but I also haven't completely relied on the powder measure alone.

 

[Demi-human]

What is the point in the step or extreme taper?

I could see setback prevention, but transitioning to a taper defeats that purpose. So why have either?

 

[Hikingman]

I still always look inside the case before I place a bullet for seating. All these years I haven't double charged a case, but I also haven't completely relied on the powder measure alone.

^ This is the best advice I can give.