Reloading Powders

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JDTomba

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I have several books on Reloading with power amounts to bullet weight etc. What would you good people as a decent book on learning the ins and outs of powder. How to determine proper weight for proper burn rate etc. In short I'd like to learn how to determine my own loads. For example. I have 250, 200 gr. Copper jacketed bullets. In the Modern reloading the only loads mentioned for a 40 S&W in a jacketed 200 gr. are for Vihtavuori Powders. Surely in the hundreds of powders there is something other than a single brand of powder for that specific load. I'd prefer to get away from Hogden and others not made in the US.
 
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JDTomba said:
n short I'd like to learn how to determine my own loads.
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Sorry, but it doesn't work that way.
To SAFELY reload you MUST follow published data.
The powder mfgs freely give away data on their respective sites.

The bullet mfgs all publish reloading manuals (paper books).
Lyman's 50th manual & Lee's 2nd are probably going to
give you the widest range of data.

If you can't find data, keep looking.
if you still can't find it, it's probably not compatible.
 
Powder manufacturers have data on their website for most calibers and powders. There are better manuals for load data than Lee's Modern Reloading
 
Trial and error.
Find published data for what you want....
Cross check your powders with any "powder burn rate chart" which can be found many places online with a quick Google search, to determine whether they are fast or slow compared with one another.
It's really trial and error to find a combo that works well for the purpose you intend, and what your gun (and you) wind up agreeing with. And, having fun and enjoying the experimentation is one of the best parts to me. Enjoy, good luck, and be safe-
 
The OP may be interested in "Loadbooks" which are compilations of load data for single cartridges. Here is one for the .40, for example. https://www.amazon.com/Loadbooks-USA-Inc-Complete-Reloading/dp/B01MQDJ66H

There also is a computer program called "Quickload" which allows the user to compare different powders, bullets, etc., but the results really ought to be compared with known factory data if at all possible.

Finally, powder burn rate charts are widely available online and are useful for finding similar powders for a given application, ie. if you have factory data for a powder which is ranked #55 on a chart, then it's a good bet that #54 and #56 will also be good choices. That doesn't mean you can just buy a can and start experimenting, though. You still need to find reliable data for whatever powder you are using.
 
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The ultimate book that would probably apply to what the OP is requesting is The Cartridge Conversion manual. It deals with working up your own wildcat cartridges and loads, converting brass, mixing powders, etc. I have a copy and am constantly sticking my nose in the thing. It's actually a great book just to reference the history of each cartridge.

But I would highly advise against any newbie trying to wildcat a cartridge or blend powders for effect.
 
Powder manufacturers and most bullet manufacturers have some pretty sophisticated ballistics lab equipment and knowledge including pressure transducers.
Most handloaders/reloaders don’t.
A lot of reloaders have a chronograph and use velocity as a proxy for pressure. But chronographs reveal nothing about pressure spikes or curves.
Reliable published data is essential.
 
I almost never use single source data when making a choice. These days you could likely find what you need as a starting place without owning a book.

https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-data-center?rdc=true&type=53

Lists 29 40s&w loads for 200 gn bullets, with a number of different non VV powders.

5242B188-111D-4546-BF14-7A50902294F0.png

Some more here with a number of western powders.

https://www.ramshot.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/WesternPowdersHandloadingGuide8.0_WEB.pdf

It was a lot harder in the old days but now just Google “load data 40 S&W”.
 
jmorris said:
I almost never use single source data when making a choice. These days you could likely find what you need as a starting place without owning a book.

https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-data-center?rdc=true&type=53

Lists 29 40s&w loads for 200 gn bullets, with a number of different non VV powders.

View attachment 1027671

Some more here with a number of western powders.

https://www.ramshot.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/WesternPowdersHandloadingGuide8.0_WEB.pdf

It was a lot harder in the old days but now just Google “load data 40 S&W”.
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OP said he’s trying to avoid Hodgdon and foreign-made powders.
 
JDTomba said:
In short I'd like to learn how to determine my own loads.
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True, insofar as you remain within the bounds of book loads. To the end of your sentence I would add, '...for best accuracy.' Without accuracy, I have nothing. Beyond accuracy, tune for recoil, flash/blast...whatever else is deemed important. From powder-puff to hard-chargers, variety on the range keeps it interesting. Once a preferred load is identified, monotony on the bench can be an attribute re: efficiency and safety.

Loadbooks USA is very good, inexpensive, for recipes only. The more comprehensive/expensive manuals provide invaluable info covering the spectrum. Be safe!
 
GeoDudeFlorida said:
OP said he’s trying to avoid Hodgdon and foreign-made powders.
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I know what he said, but that puts a lot of limits on his choices; like Alliant, period.
Hodgdon powders come from all over; some made in USA, some made in Canada, some made in Australia.

"Determining one's own load" is not a reasonable process. You can get in enough debates over which book to go by, never mind making stuff up.
 
This thread had me up all night reminiscing about my grandfather who taught me how to reload ... at least what he knew back then, which was quite a lot for his time in the 40s, 50s, 60s and early 70s before he passed. He was a WWII vet and he seemed 20 feet tall to me back then.

But this thread reminded me of something he used to say all the time while teaching me, especially if I did something stupid. He used to say, "don't be a Rock chunking Chuklehead."

LOL I was never quite sure where he got that from because he didn't use a press of any sort for years, he always used a Lee Handloader, but when he finally save up enough money for his Rock Chucker, in the mid 60s, he loved and worshipped that thing like it was gold. He always said it cost him more than a week's pay ... he was making maybe $50 bucks a week at the time.

So anyways, Rock Chucking Chucklehead was a pejorative to me and I dang sure didn't wanna be one.

But this thread got me to thinking about something I had forgotteb aboout long ago. About something he said, and showed me, about mixing powders. So early this morning I came out here to my man cave and started going through some of his old notes and manuals hoping to find it and, lo and behold ... I just found it. Almost made me choke up remembering grandpappy. The man was amazing. Not just an amazing horseman, rider, shooter, dad, husband and grandfather ... but just an amazing person. That this stuck in my head and prompted me to go on this search this morning ... well, it's been a good morning.

And now for the story of Chuck "Chuklhed" (I've been spelling it wrong in my head all these years.

I hope these two pictures come-through and the Chuck Chuklhed story and pictures contained within are readable. Moral of the story is "don’t concoct your own secret booster to enhance data propellants" ... and it's an old, tried and true, story to tell. Lol, if you can, read the labels on the cans in the pictures. Blasto Powder, Nuclear Research.

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16325871851708431536763904328266.jpg
 
GeoDudeFlorida said:
OP said he’s trying to avoid Hodgdon and foreign-made powders.
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Yeah, I noticed that part in his post.

JDTomba said:
I'd prefer to get away from Hogden and others not made in the US.
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Hodgdon is a distributor, not a manufacturer of many products they sell. For example, gun powder sold under these labels,

D1B5DEA1-151A-46D5-A620-3FB1A6CA3FAF.png

Are all made by https://www.gd-ots.com/propellant-and-propulsion/st-marks-powder-propellants/. In Florida.


But Hodgdon also distributes powder from other places. Same with Alliant some powder it distributes comes from the US others come from across the pond.
 
JDTomba said:
I have several books on Reloading. . . In short I'd like to learn how to determine my own loads.
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I'm going to disagree with several other posters who have said that it's not possibly to safely develop your own data, and I'm going to agree with them that you should not do it.

I develop my own load data, slowly, carefully, reaching in small steps away from published data, and on the basis of 15 years of reloading experience. I'm also a mechanical engineer with more practical experience in chemistry, thermodynamics, and combustion mechanics than most.

This is not trivial stuff, and small errors in input assumptions can hurt your badly. The reason no one publishes Reloading Recipe Development 101 is because 90% of the people who read it would lack the underlying knowledge to do it safety.

Buy a couple manuals, and reload for 5 years. Read everything you can find from the manufacturers on which powders are good for what. Print the 3-4 powder burn rate charts and map out which cartridges are loaded with which powders, and then go figure out why that map is so apparently messy (hint: peak pressure, starting volume, expansion volume, bore contact area, and a couple other things. . .). Then buy QuickLoad, and start simulating powders that seem like they should work. . .

Philosophically, there are three sorts of Reloaders:
1) Recipe followers, who are horrified by deviations from the published data.
2) Experimenters, carefully treading beyond the data, with caution and acceptance of the (small) risks.
3) Fools, boldly going where wise men fear to tread, who will eventually make an ash of themselves.

Be #2. Go carefully and pay attention.
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Have read the OP's post a couple times......not sure if he means "study powder" literally. I can only hope when he says he wants to develop his own loads, he is planning to do nothing different than all the rest. Find one of several powders that works for the caliber he is loading, then consult load data to find the range of powder charge for each bullet........start low and then potentially work up to the max.

But if he means more......like difference in powder types......flake, ball, extruded, etc, fast vs. slow, shotgun, pistol, rifle, cannon, etc, and contents of each.......there may be some commonly available references, but may require a whole lot more research.

One problem for those wanting to dig deeper seems to be the veil of secrecy that seems to surround these powder outfits, as most of the hundreds of powders available to reloaders are not intended as such, more like repurposed for such use, if and when they get around to it. Name almost any powder and if you are one of the folks at our level you won't find much on it, except if you can get it, it works well for this, this and that......and it does.
 
edwardware said:
Philosophically, there are three sorts of Reloaders:
1) Recipe followers, who are horrified by deviations from the published data.
2) Experimenters, carefully treading beyond the data, with caution and acceptance of the (small) risks.
3) Fools, boldly going where wise men fear to tread, who will eventually make an ash of themselves.

Be #2. Go carefully and pay attention.
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I was, for a long time, a #1.

Johnny's Reloading Bench taught me to-be a #2. It's paid off for me so I subscribed to him.
 
Airborne Falcon said:
I was, for a long time, a #1.

Johnny's Reloading Bench taught me to-be a #2. It's paid off for me so I subscribed to him.
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Not in those words or anything but the uncle who taught me reloading promised I would one day graduate to a number two if I was an expert at number one for long enough. He also said I would one day be a number three - at least once. Later in life that same uncle reverted to number one, then quit reloading right before he quit hunting. Shortly after he passed his eldest son told me he quit reloading because he just didn’t trust himself anymore. I sure do miss him
 
Thanks everyone for your replies. I miswrote or badly communicated my wishes about reloading powders. I am extremely curious. I want to learn WHY a spherical powder is better for this than for that. WHy a slower burn rate for this type is better. Why less of the same powder is better for a heavier bullet in some calibers than in others. Why certain primers react better with certain powders for different applications. I just want to learn more about the intricacies behind the science. There just seems to be a lot of mystery around the science of reloading and smokeless gun powders. I will still follow the data but would just like to better understand it.
 
As do we all, well, some of us anyway. Some folks are content to know the book says this much of this powder with this bullet at at this oal works and they load it up and are happy. Some of us, like yourself, want to know why it works best this way, why some combos work, and why some we think should work, don’t.
 
JDTomba said:
Thanks everyone for your replies. I miswrote or badly communicated my wishes about reloading powders. I am extremely curious. I want to learn WHY a spherical powder is better for this than for that. WHy a slower burn rate for this type is better. Why less of the same powder is better for a heavier bullet in some calibers than in others. Why certain primers react better with certain powders for different applications. I just want to learn more about the intricacies behind the science. There just seems to be a lot of mystery around the science of reloading and smokeless gun powders. I will still follow the data but would just like to better understand it.
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Years of practice, volumes of reading, decades of study. If you’re lucky and work hard, with patience and an open mind, you may someday know how much you have to learn on the subject. I’m just now figuring out how little I know and how much of what I thought I knew is wrong. Which puts me in the top 20 percentile. Or so… maybe.
 
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