Reloading Rifle Cartridges not conducive to Turret?

[holdencm9]

So I really love reloading handgun rounds with my turret press (Lee Classic 4-die turret with Pro Auto Disk Powder Measure). It seems the process is designed for it: clean or not, you can resize/decap, charge and expand the case, seat a bullet and crimp (if you'd like). No worries, no fuss.

But with rifle ammunition it seems a lot less straightforward. It seems like you DEFINITELY want to clean the brass first, because you need to lube the cases, and it seems that dirty brass would only make it more difficult to size. Then after you resize you need to measure the case and possibly trim/chamfer which throws a wrench into the works. From there you can charge the case with the powder measure, although many rifle powders tend to not meter well) and then seat the bullet and crimp in the last two stages of the turret.

I have basically settled on a hybrid batched single-stage program outlined below. Is this pretty typical or are there folks out there who use the turret in a more "turret" fashion? Are there any tricks, for instance if you trim the brass to the trim-to length, you can get x-number of firings out of it before it needs trimming again?

1 - decap with universal decapper
2 - clean
3 - lube and resize, 10 at a time
4 - wipe!
5 - measure. If too long, see 6. If okay, skip to 7.
6 - trim to length, debur and chamfer
7 - prime all 10 cases (I use the safety primer attached to the turret for this)
8 - charge all 10 cases (I use the auto disk but check often because I still don't quite trust it with the longer stick powders)
9 - seat bullet
10 - crimp

So I basically use the turret as a single stage, with the exception of 9 & 10 where there are two consecutive pulls of the lever without removing the cartridge.

Note that I don't MIND doing it this way. I am not trying to crank out 100 per hour. Just wondering if I am being too cautious about the powder drop and trimming and stuff. Those seem to be the major holdups in the process.

 

[USSR]

Aside from everything you mentioned, a turret press for bottleneck rifle cartridge is undesireable due to the tolerences built into the press to allow for the rotation of stations. Everybody needs a good single stage press for the precision reloading of rifle ammunition.

Don

 

[jwrowland77]

I always trim my brass back to the trim-to-length, that's just my preference. I like the consistency.

Why are you crimping a rifle round? You using a AR platform? Lever action?

I use a bolt rifle and never crimp my rounds. No real reason to crimp a rifle round, as the neck tension should be enough to hold the bullet. If it's not, either anneal or put in recycle bin.

 

[RPRNY]

I too have a Lee 4 die turret. Great for pistol and straight wall rifle cases. As per USSR's remarks above, not great for precision rifle (bottleneck) cases. Suggest the hand priming tool and a separate powder measure. The auto disk doesn't give accurate enough or precise enough metering (IMHO) for rifle loads. Also, turret too short for the likes of 30-06. Can be used as a single stage press though.

 

[Gadawg88]

You don't mention which caliber of rifle or what type of shooting you are doing and that can make a difference. I look at loading for rifle as two distint stages. There is the case prep work stage and the actual loading stage. The case prep takes the most time by far. I load my .223 for AR on the LCT in a similar fashion to what you have described with some key differences. I tumble the brass and get it good and clean, then lube and decap and full length size in one step using Lee die set. I do all the brass I have in one batch then move to the next step in the process. The cases go back in the tumbler for about 30 minutes just to get the lube off. If I am processing once fired brass then i will just trim them all to 1.75. Most will need it but maybe not all, (depends on brass) but it is faster to just try and trim them all than measuring each one first just to see if it needs to be trimmed. However, if it is brass I have already trimmed then fired, they probably won't need to be trimmed. I do a quick check using a Wilson case gauge. How many times you can fire them without trimming a second time I can't give you a good answer for. Depends on the rifle, load and the particular brass. For the powder drop I also use the auto disk and have found it to give more than adequate reliability for loading .223 plinking ammo. I usually drop 10 and just dump them back in the hopper then start loading cases, weighing each of the first 10 or so. It is usually spot on or +-0.1 gn. After that I spot check maybe every 15 to 20th round. For .223 plinking ammo, I dont get too worked up if it is +-0.2gn. I dont load near max. The main difference in my method is I prime, charge, seat the bullet and apply a light crimp with the Lee fcd one round at a time. Works for me and it is faster. For other lower volume rifle calibers I use an RCBS chargemaster.

 

[holdencm9]

Why are you crimping a rifle round? You using a AR platform? Lever action?

I reload .223 for the AR and .308 (which I don't crimp) for a bolt action. The .308 I have never bothered trying to set up the pro auto disk for dropping powder. I only use it for the .223. I hand weight all charges for the .308, and for target .223. For Plinking .223 I use the pro auto disk and depending on the powder is usually good within 0.2 grains.

Aside from everything you mentioned, a turret press for bottleneck rifle cartridge is undesireable due to the tolerences built into the press to allow for the rotation of stations. Everybody needs a good single stage press for the precision reloading of rifle ammunition.

What does this tolerance affect? Sizing of the brass, or seating of the bullet? I would think the dies have more of an effect than the turret, since as the lever is raised the turret centers itself, but I don't doubt the tiny little differences can add up, when shooting at several hundred yards.

 

[holdencm9]

I look at loading for rifle as two distint stages. There is the case prep work stage and the actual loading stage. The case prep takes the most time by far. I load my .223 for AR on the LCT in a similar fashion to what you have described with some key differences.

The main difference in my method is I prime, charge, seat the bullet and apply a light crimp with the Lee fcd one round at a time. Works for me and it is faster. For other lower volume rifle calibers I use an RCBS chargemaster.

Gadawg, I didn't see your post when I was replying to the others. It definitely sounds like your process is quite similar to mine, as you mentioned, even down to the use of the pro auto disk for plinking ammo. I do like the idea of thinking of it as 2 different "phases" if you will (so as not to confuse with "stages"). The main difference for me I think stems from using ultrasonic cleaning, and in order for the brass to dry a lot faster, it benefits me to de-prime before cleaning. But maybe something like this is the way to look at it:

Case Prep Phase
1 - Deprime
2 - Clean and Dry
3 - Lube
4 - Resize
5 - Trim/Debur/Chamfer
6 - Wipe Dry

Actual Loading Phase
1 - Prime
2 - Charge
3 - Seat Bullet
4 - Crimp optional

So the latter phase is actually pretty quick if utilizing the auto index and pro auto disk measure.

 

[gamestalker]

Yepper, single stage and bottle neck go together like peanut butter and jelly. Bottle neck loading is for the most part a far more precision orientated process, handgun not so much.

GS

 

[JamieC]

If my cases are relatively clean, I'll dump them in a bucket, spray with some degreaser, mix 'em up, rinse real well, let them dry, lube, de-prime and size, trim and deburr, tumble to shine and take any edge off the deburring. Prime, charge, seat a bullet, light crimp. If I have any real old and tarnished range brass, I'll tumble after washing so I can see if there is anything that needs to be seen.

 

[TheCracker]

For anything larger than 223 and anything going in a precision/hunting load I much prefer single stage. You can use the lee classic turret single stage. Personally, I would not use the auto disk for above said rounds unless I was charging low and trickling up every load. Just like I do with the lee perfect powder measure.

Btw, batches of only 10 seem like it would be slow and painful. I think you would be better off doing 50-100 at a time, single stage. Just my opinion though.

 

[USSR]

What does this tolerance affect? Sizing of the brass, or seating of the bullet?

In a word, runout.

Don

 

[Rule3]

I load 223, 30 carbine 30-30 and 308 on Lee Turret without the turret rod in place. So it's essentially a single stage. I use diluted water based lube so no need to clean the brass again. I use a RCBS Uniflow for measuring powder
I prime the cases on the press, Very constant COL and measurements in a Wilson case gauge. All brass prep, (trimming is done before hand)

Works for me

 

[GT1]

What does this tolerance affect? Sizing of the brass, or seating of the bullet? I would think the dies have more of an effect than the turret, since as the lever is raised the turret centers itself, but I don't doubt the tiny little differences can add up, when shooting at several hundred yards.

You are correct in the case of Lee turret presses. Since the turret(puck) is free floating and squares itself under load you get bullets loaded straighter into the case.

Every other brand of turret press has to allow runout because they are center-post supported. It is impossible to take out the small amount of slop allowing tilt or they won't rotate.

 

[Nordeste]

Just excuse my ignorance but I'm wondering what that little play on the turret head may affect the consistence of the reloaded ammo. I guess you mean it would affect the OAL. That "play" is always the same, and you count on it when setting up your dies.

This said, I obviously don't reload rifle ammo (not yet ), but when reloading pistol ammo and checking my OAL, I have to say that I stay within very acceptable tolerances with my LCT, in the range of .02 to .05 mms (too lazy to convert that into imperial units today, just excuse me), which is a very small difference that is, quite likely, the difference of the bullets' length, anyway. I won't discuss that proper rifle reloading is best done on a good single stage, I know this is true. But unless you're reloading for bench rest precision shooting, wouldn't a Classic Turret serve you well for most applications?.

 

[JamieC]

You are correct in the case of Lee turret presses. Since the turret(puck) is free floating and squares itself under load you get bullets loaded straighter into the case.

Every other brand of turret press has to allow runout because they are center-post supported. It is impossible to take out the small amount of slop allowing tilt or they won't rotate.

Well, technically the turret 'puck' isn't free floating, it is located by a spring loaded ball detent. I just started loading 223, there is a learning curve, but no biggie. My powder drops are all pretty consistent, OAL comes out with in 1 or 2 thousandths.

 

[jmorris]

I have loaded more rifle rounds on turret press's than pistol. There are a lot of other factors that effect group size more than if your ammo is loaded on a turret press.

I still have the cut out section of target that has a 3/8" 5 shot group from 100 yds with a pistol loaded 17 years ago on a Lee turret.

 

[ATLDave]

My process is pretty similar to what the OP describes, although I clean before de-priming, and when I measure length on resized cases, I'm just making two piles: within spec and over. I usually re-size until I get a full loading block of in-spec cases. Trimming the overs to size is a separate project.

 

[jluther820]

I could swear that some of the recent sniper competition guys are loading on Dillon progressives... You probably slow down and focus thinking on all the time you waste loading on a single Stage. The play / variance in a progressive can easily be eliminated

 

[JamieC]

I was loading up some 223 rounds last night, (going to try out some H335), if I convert my 4 hole to a three hole, it would work great for rifle. I don't need the de-capper/sizing die, that's already been done, just need to charge, seat, crimp.
As an aside, I'd like to get another Safety Primer, keep my pistol and small rifle primers separate, Lee will only sell small and large primer units as a pair, I don't need another large holder, just whining.